Bible Study Do we love the truth!

[donadams]

I do not know the purpose of segregating sins into more than the two categories that Jesus mentioned (i.e., the one unpordonable sin and all other sins). Cynically, I would guess to lighten the load on priests? Are Catholics instructed to confess every single sin, or just the bad ones?

Only serious or deadly sins

 

[donadams]

If is not accompanied by confessing with the mouth the Lord Jesus, then it is done in vain.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

Is that why we recite the nicene creed every week in public?

 

[donadams]

Obviously, I did not mean Christ.



No, this isn't what Mark 16:16 indicates. Belief is the emphasis of the verse, not baptism.



No, not spiritually fruitful unless abiding.



Matthew 24:13
13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Who endures to the end? Only those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells, who empowers them to endure. No one endures to the end by self-effort, only by being spiritually made new by the Holy Spirit and enabled by him to persevere.

Philippians 2:13, Philippians 4:13, Ephesians 3:16, Ephesians 6:10, Romans 8:9-14, 2 Corinthians 3:18, etc.

And so, Scripture rules out our works as salvific repeatedly and explicitly.

Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Timothy 1:9.

You really reject the eternal words of Christ?

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 16:16

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

There are two statements and they cannot contradict each other!

Nor can one be used to deny the other!

No scripture twisting here!

Requirements?

Those who are being saved?

Absolute requirement of both faith and baptism!

And it is baptism that is the Christian initiation into the new covenant of grace, baptism is the outward sign of the new covenant!

Those not being saved?
Nothing is required, if you reject the first requirements of those being saved why bother to mention the second?

Faith and baptism are required for salvation!


Baptism scripture verses


mk 16:16 faith and baptism
Jn 3:5 water AND the spirit
Jn 3:22 immediately go to river (water) and baptize
Matt 28:19 Jn 4:1 disciples made by baptism
Acts 2:38 baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith and baptism
Acts 22:16 wash away sin by baptism
1 cor 12:13 enter new covenant church by baptism
Gal 3:27 put in Christ by baptism
1 pet 3:21 saved by baptism

No where does the Bible
say “faith alone “!!!

 

[donadams]

Obviously, I did not mean Christ.



No, this isn't what Mark 16:16 indicates. Belief is the emphasis of the verse, not baptism.



No, not spiritually fruitful unless abiding.



Matthew 24:13
13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Who endures to the end? Only those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells, who empowers them to endure. No one endures to the end by self-effort, only by being spiritually made new by the Holy Spirit and enabled by him to persevere.

Philippians 2:13, Philippians 4:13, Ephesians 3:16, Ephesians 6:10, Romans 8:9-14, 2 Corinthians 3:18, etc.

And so, Scripture rules out our works as salvific repeatedly and explicitly.

Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Timothy 1:9.

Not natural works or works alone!

Dogma

118. Grace cannot be merited by natural works.

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing.

So how do our acts become meritorious and salutary?

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me.

Union with Christ and Grace give life to our acts.

109. There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will.

111. For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary.

112. Internal supernatural grace is absolutely necessary for the beginning of faith and of salvation.

127. Sanctifying grace sanctifies the soul.
128. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a friend of God.
129. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a child of God and gives him a claim to the inheritance
of Heaven.
130. The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused with
Sanctifying grace.

133. Grace can be increased by good works.
134. The grace by which we are justified may be lost, and is lost by every grievous [mortal,
serious] sin.
135. By his good works the justified man really acquires a claim to supernatural reward from
God.
136. A just man merits for himself through each good work an increase of sanctifying grace,
eternal life (if he dies in a state of grace) and an increase of heavenly glory.

Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

I don't know what that had to do with my post ?
I didn't mention anything about the Law.
Perhaps you can rephrase your post ?

Concerning my statement that our common need for forgiveness should cause us to rally around the same flag, you said, "That flag should illustrate our surrender to God. Sin abrogates that surrender."

Instead of rallying around the flag of forgiveness in Christ, you rally around the flag of not sinning. My reply was that not sinning (i.e., obeying the law) works just fine until you sin (i.e., you break the law). Then you need forgiveness. You may want to return again to not sinning (i.e., obedience to the law) after you are forgiven, but it won't be long before you sin again (i.e., you break the law again). Hopefully, in due time, you will learn that your many sins (i.e., your many failures to obey the law) place you under the curse of the law and that the only way out from under the curse is to rest all your hope in Christ's sacrifice as being sufficient to cover all your sins. This is explained in detail in the 3rd chapter of Galatians.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

One false repentance after another is indeed worthless.
Only a true, permanent, repentance from sin, will garner eternal life.

I guess we are getting to the bottom line now. Are you saying true repentance results in no future sins?

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Not saved according to scripture
Justified? Yes
United to Christ by the grace of the sacraments? Yes

Members of Christ’s new covenant of grace by faith and baptism, united to the mediator and having union with God and His saints!

Belong to God purchased at the price of the precious blood of Jesus

my grace is sufficient: 2 cor 12:9
Seek the kingdom: Matt 6:33
Abide in Christ / bear fruit Jn 15:4
Perpetual state of faith: Jn 3:16
Watch & Pray: Matt 26:41
Ask and receive: 7:8
Pray: Matt 6:6
Fasting: Matt 6:17
Alms: Matt 6:3
Practice of the virtues of Jesus
Christ: Matt 11:29
Narrow gate road lead to life Matt 7:14
Beatitudes: Matt 5:3-16
Christian suffering / Deny thyself, take up Thy cross: Matt 10:38 & 16:24 rom 8:18 2 thes 1:5
2 Tim 2:12 Phil 1:29
Frequenting the sacraments (promises) of grace: Heb 8:8
2 Timothy 1:1
Endure to the end: Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

All united in Christ and Soaked in His blood, grace, the merits Christ won for us by His life, death, and resurrection!

But we can reject Christ and salvation and be separated from God (spiritual death) by deadly sins!

Thks

We do indeed see spiritual things differently.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Only serious or deadly sins

That's the reason then. Thanks.

 

[JLB]

Is that why we recite the nicene creed every week in public?

I don't know anything about any creeds.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Concerning my statement that our common need for forgiveness should cause us to rally around the same flag, you said, "That flag should illustrate our surrender to God. Sin abrogates that surrender."

Shouldn't it ?
If we are going to be under God's flag, shouldn't we be aligned with God ?

Instead of rallying around the flag of forgiveness in Christ, you rally around the flag of not sinning.

Forgiveness breeds obedience.

My reply was that not sinning (i.e., obeying the law) works just fine until you sin (i.e., you break the law).

Eating chocolate is fine, until you stop eating chocolate.
Those forgiven by God have repented of sin, so don't unrepent like the disobedient do.

Then you need forgiveness. You may want to return again to not sinning (i.e., obedience to the law) after you are forgiven, but it won't be long before you sin again (i.e., you break the law again).

All you describe are fake Christians, the double-minded.
The 'door' that is Christ, isn't a revolving door.

Hopefully, in due time, you will learn that your many sins (i.e., your many failures to obey the law) place you under the curse of the law and that the only way out from under the curse is to rest all your hope in Christ's sacrifice as being sufficient to cover all your sins. This is explained in detail in the 3rd chapter of Galatians..

My favorite verse from Gal 3 is...27..."For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
There is no sin in Christ, so if you are "in Him" you would have to leave Him in order to commit sin.

Rally around the flag of obedience to God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I guess we are getting to the bottom line now. Are you saying true repentance results in no future sins?

Yes.
A second repentance from sin means the first one was a lie to God.
A second repentance from sin means the first one wasn't 'godly'...as 2 Cor 7:10 says..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."
A second repentance from sin means the first one was but the sorrow of the world.

 

[JLB]

Yes.
A second repentance from sin means the first one was a lie to God.
A second repentance from sin means the first one wasn't 'godly'...as 2 Cor 7:10 says..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."
A second repentance from sin means the first one was but the sorrow of the world.

The truth is... If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

The lie is... if we say we have no sin, we are a liar...

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.



JLB

 

[Hopeful 2]

The truth is... If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

The lie is... if we say we have no sin, we are a liar...

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.



JLB

Keep citing the verses addressing to those who walk in darkness.
Eventually, they may really repent of sin, and start to walk in God, in Whom is no sin.

 

[JLB]

Keep citing the verses addressing to those who walk in darkness.
Eventually, they may really repent of sin, and start to walk in God, in Whom is no sin.

My verses correspond to those who are Christian’s and who walk in the light.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:7-8


The same Christians that are referred to as “we” who walks in the light, is the same Christians “us” that are cleansed from all sin by His blood.

And the same Christians who are referred as “we” and “us” if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Those who have the truth in us, confess our sins because we recognize we still carry sin in our flesh, and must confess our sin in order to be cleansed from it.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2


By saying our, John refers to himself and all Christian’s.

The world refers to non Christian’s.

 

[GodsGrace]

Believing of any kind, if it's more than merely superficial, intellectual assent, is inevitably reflected or manifested in corresponding action. If I really believe wearing a life jacket when on the water will be important in keeping me safe, I'll put it on, even if it's hot and uncomfortable. If I really believe my dentist can fix my painful tooth, I'll go to him to get it fixed, even if doing so is unpleasant and expensive. If I really believe my mechanic can fix the wobbling front tire on my car, I'll take my car to him to repair, even though it's inconvenient and costly to do so. And so on. It isn't, then, ONLY concerning spiritual matters that belief and action correspond.

Such corresponding action, though, merely completes belief, it doesn't constitute it. If, for example, I believe the snarling dog running at me is going to bite me, I may not have time to act on my sincere and certain belief and climb a tree. Does this mean my belief didn't exist, or wasn't genuine and sincere? No. This example illustrates that belief always precedes action and exists discretely separate from the action it may produce. In other words, I can truly believe something and yet not manifest that belief in concrete action. The man on his deathbed, immobilized by cancer, who trusts in Christ only moments before he dies, is truly saved though his belief has no opportunity to reflect itself in the dying man's conduct. This is so because his deeds, his God-obedient actions, aren't what saves him (Titus 3:5; Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9). Salvation is a Person, Jesus Christ. He alone saves. (Acts 4:12; John 14:6; 1 Timothy 2:5)



Only insofar as they often overlap with each other. But as the examples above demonstrate, they aren't actually identical things.



This simply illustrates the inter-relationship of belief with action, not that they are synonymous. What did Jesus say about belief in him and the work of God?

John 6:28-29
28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Trusting in, believing in, Jesus as Saviour and submitting to him as Lord (Romans 10:9-10) are things we do, though they are not doings of the external-action sort, like leaping up into a tree when a snarling dog charges at you. They are entirely of the heart, mind and will, internal and unseen by all, save God.



The dentist doesn't tell us to do our own root canal upon ourselves. That's silly. If we could do such a thing, we wouldn't be at the dentist's office! We see the dentist because we want him to fix our tooth. Though our belief in our dentist has resulted in our going to him for help, in the end, we can only receive from him his tooth-repairing work. We don't fix our own tooth, just as we don't save ourselves.



"There is no man so blind as he who will not see." Nothing in this quotation from your post does anything to counter or negate my point about the limits of our belief.



Yes, but the Source of all Truth is not identical to the truth propositions that arise from him.

Could you repeat that last sentence?
Are you speaking of Jesus?
Sorry, just got here.

Are you saying the MESSAGE is different than the MESSENGER....
IN HIS CASE....

 

[GodsGrace]

Scripture also clearly indicates that people have been, and are saved, not that they can only expect at some point in the future to be saved. See 1 John 5:11-13, 1 Corinthians 1:18, 30, 2 Corinthians 2:15, Galatians 3:27, Ephesians 2:4, Colossians 3:3, Revelation 3:20, etc.

I am saved. Absolutely. Thank God!

Yes, a man can be saved entirely separately from water baptism. He cannot be saved, however, without the "baptism of the Spirit" by which he is placed into Christ.

Of course, a man can be saved without a priest. Goodness. Just read 1 Timothy 2:5, Romans 10:9-10, and John 3:16. We are saved by Christ and by no other (Acts 4:12). Certainly not by another fallible person, whatever his title.

How can you be SURE you'll be saved in the future?

The bible teaches that we are to ABIDE in our Lord and thus in our faith.
It teaches that we should not FALL AWAY from out faith.

WHERE do you see in the NT written that we are SAVED forever because we accepted Jesus at some point in our lives?
Where does it say, exactly, that we are to accept Jesus?

If we accept Jesus NOW
and forsake Him in the future....
we can still be saved?

If faith saves....
How does NOT having faith in a possible future still save?

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Yes.
A second repentance from sin means the first one was a lie to God.
A second repentance from sin means the first one wasn't 'godly'...as 2 Cor 7:10 says..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."
A second repentance from sin means the first one was but the sorrow of the world.

The new man is sinless and incorruptible, but the flesh is not. So, sinless perfection for people who walk around in the flesh does not exist. But you think it exists and that you have obtained it?

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

My favorite verse from Gal 3 is...27..."For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
There is no sin in Christ, so if you are "in Him" you would have to leave Him in order to commit sin.

Your POV is strange to me. If you ascribe to sinless perfection on the basis of having "put on Christ" and being "in Christ", it would follow that you also would ascribe to the idea that being one with Christ also provides protection against the possibility of committing future sins, including the sin of forsaking Christ in favor of sin. After all, isn't this John's point in 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18?

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (1 Jn 3:9)​

​

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (1 Jn 5:18)​

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

How can you be SURE you'll be saved in the future?

The bible teaches that we are to ABIDE in our Lord and thus in our faith.
It teaches that we should not FALL AWAY from out faith.

WHERE do you see in the NT written that we are SAVED forever because we accepted Jesus at some point in our lives?
Where does it say, exactly, that we are to accept Jesus?

If we accept Jesus NOW
and forsake Him in the future....
we can still be saved?

If faith saves....
How does NOT having faith in a possible future still save?

The concept of eternal security has at it's core the precept that Jesus is able to save to the uttermost (i.e., completely and forever) those who come to God through Him because He always lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7:25). Those of us who have rested all our hope in Christ do not see any possible future circumstances that would convince us to turn away from Christ and forsake Him. This is not because we trust in ourselves to endure or to overcome. We believe we will endure and overcome because we believe that Jesus is protecting us from every enemy that would seek to snatch us out of His hand.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.” (Jn 10:27–30)​

 

[donadams]

We do indeed see spiritual things differently.

Do you believe you are saved?

How in light of Jn 15:4 and Matt 24:13

Do saved men need to pray and watch? Yo practice virtue? Beatitudes?