Bible Study Do we love the truth!

[JLB]

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth,

Exactly!

Obeying the truth.

Not trying to keep the law of Moses.

Can you see that Paul exhorted them to obey the truth?

 

[JLB]

The sacrament, the initiation
Eph 4:5 the one baptism

There is no such thing in scripture called a "sacrament of baptism".

There three distinct baptisms, with three distinct baptizers.

The baptism by which we are born again, and by which we are all one in Christ is the initial baptism, whereby the Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ.

This is the baptism Paul had in mind when he wrote to the Ephesians about unity; being one.

The context Paul is writing about here is unity; being one.

Not the number one, as only one in number, but one in unity. This is the same Greek word as used in 1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Ephesians 4:1-6

Paul gives us the three baptisms in one verse in 1 Corinthians 10:2 using Old Testament types and shadows.

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 1 Corinthians 10:1-2

This correlates to being Baptized -

Into Christ by the Holy Spirit -

12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:12-13

In water by man -

4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

With the Holy Spirit by the Lord Jesus -

but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5

I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:8





JLB

 

[JLB]

It has not yet been committed.

Thank you for revealing to all, your blatant denial of the truth.

Sin dwells in our physical (mortal) body, even after water baptism.

Paul warns us to not let the sin in our mortal body, rule over us as a taskmaster to make us it's slave.

The Point: Sin continues to dwell in or mortal body after water baptism.

Our physical bodies are not sinless... yet! We will have sinless bodies after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, which occurs at His coming.

 

[JLB]

Christians are justified not saved

A born-again Christian is saved, when they believe.

Words of Christ in red -

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12




JLB

 

[Hopeful 2]

Thank you for revealing to all, your blatant denial of the truth.

Sin dwells in our physical (mortal) body, even after water baptism.

Paul warns us to not let the sin in our mortal body, rule over us as a taskmaster to make us it's slave.

The Point: Sin continues to dwell in or mortal body after water baptism.

Our physical bodies are not sinless... yet! We will have sinless bodies after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, which occurs at His coming.

You are stuck on a false doctrine.
Jesus' words in Matt 9:17 refute it..."Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved."
Your version of a convert is as an old bottle.
It can't last.

 

[donadams]

This confirms one of our differences.

You believe the Catholic church is the gateholder and that it opens the gate to let people into the kingdom of God when it baptizes them.

I believe Jesus is the gateholder and that He opens the gate to let people into the kingdom of God when they receive Him and the forgiveness He offers. And the occasion of their entry is celebrated by Jesus coming to live (permanently) in that person's heart, bringing them from death to life. Baptism pictures it, but does not do anything.

That’s a lot of scripture referring to baptism that does not do anything!

How do we put on Christ?

 

[donadams]

There is no such thing in scripture called a "sacrament of baptism".

There three distinct baptisms, with three distinct baptizers.

The baptism by which we are born again, and by which we are all one in Christ is the initial baptism, whereby the Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ.

This is the baptism Paul had in mind when he wrote to the Ephesians about unity; being one.

The context Paul is writing about here is unity; being one.

Not the number one, as only one in number, but one in unity. This is the same Greek word as used in 1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Ephesians 4:1-6

Paul gives us the three baptisms in one verse in 1 Corinthians 10:2 using Old Testament types and shadows.

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 1 Corinthians 10:1-2

This correlates to being Baptized -

Into Christ by the Holy Spirit -

12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:12-13

In water by man -

4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

With the Holy Spirit by the Lord Jesus -

but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5

I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:8





JLB

You don’t believe in the sacraments of God?

Most people who oppose catholic dogma actually believe about 90%


Dogma / De Fide or “thee faith” (found 31 times in the New Testament) eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truths revealed by Christ, taught by His apostolic church! (Matt 28:19)
(The rule of faith)

The faith that binds all Christians! Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

Christ and His church are one and teach one truth faith! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 / Jn 8:12 - Matt 5:14
Matt 17:5 - acts 3:22 Matt 18:18
Truth: Jn 14:6 - 1 Tim 3:15


162. The Sacraments of the New Covenant contain the grace which they signify, and bestow it on
those who do not hinder it.
163. The Sacraments work ex opere operato (simply by being done).
164. All the Sacraments of the New Covenant confer sanctifying grace on the receivers.
165. Three Sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders, imprint a character, that is, an
indelible spiritual mark, and for this reason cannot be repeated.
166. The Sacramental Character is a spiritual mark imprinted on the soul.
167. The Sacramental Character continues at least until the death of its bearer.
168. All the Sacraments of the New Covenant were instituted by Jesus Christ.
169. There are Seven Sacraments of the New Law.
170. The Sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for the salvation of mankind.
171. For the valid dispensing of the Sacraments it is necessary that the minister accomplish the
Sacramental Sign in the proper manner.
172. The minister must further have the intention at least of doing what the Church does.
173. In the case of adult recipients moral worthiness is necessary for the worthy or fruitful
reception of the Sacraments.
174. Baptism is a true Sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ.
175. The materia remota of the Sacrament of Baptism is true and natural water.
176. Baptism confers the grace of justification.
177. Baptism effects the remission of all punishments of sin, both the eternal and the temporal.
178. Even if it be unworthily received, valid Baptism imprints on the soul of the recipient an
indelible spiritual mark, the Baptismal Character, and for this reason, the Sacrament cannot
be repeated.
179. Baptism by water (Baptismus fluminis) is, since the promulgation of the Gospel, necessary
for all men without exception, for salvation.
180. Baptism can be validly administered by anyone.
181. Baptism can be received by any person in the wayfaring state who is not already baptised.
182. The Baptism of young children is valid and licit.

 

[donadams]

A born-again Christian is saved, when they believe.

Words of Christ in red -

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12




JLB

Refers to justification
Jesus also said Mk 13:13 and Matt 24:13

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Christians are justified not saved

Ok, fine.

So the sacraments justify us so that we may live holy lives, but when we fail to live holy lives, we lose it all. Then what? Participating in the sacraments justify us again so that we may resume holy living? Until we sin again? And this repeats how often? Wouldn't it become obvious after a few cycles that it isn't working?

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

The sacrament, the initiation
Eph 4:5 the one baptism

You are doing it again (quoting verses out of context). Nothing in Ephesians 4:5 indicates physical baptism. The one and only baptism that counts is the real one, the one that happened when Jesus came to live in our hearts, burring our sins at the cross and raising us to live in the newness of the Spirit.

You have not yet told me how you came up with those three supporting verses that had nothing to do with the subject matter of your post. As I said, it is important for me to know how you came up with those particular verses because I need to know what kind of person I'm dealing with.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Only those who obey the Gospel will receive eternal life.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

JLB

3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? (Ga 3:1–4)​

The Galatian Christians were bewitched and did not obey the truth, even though Jesus Christ had clearly been portrayed to them as crucifid for their sins. They had become "foolish" in their thinking because although they knew that they received the Spirit of God by faith in Christ, they thought that obedience to the law was the path to Christian maturity. This called into question whether or not their salvation was real or not.

After a paragraph of explanation that successful Christian living is through the excercise of faith (Ga 4:5-9), Paul continues...

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”​

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Ga 3:10–14)​

People who orient themselves to God by obedience to His laws, as the Galatian Christians were doing, place themselves under the curse of the law. The law has blessings for those who obey and curses for those who do not obey. And it is obvious that in God's eyes (the only eyes that count), nobody escapes the curse of the law because nobody obeyes it to the extent God requires. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, so that we might receive the Holy Spirit through faith in Him, and not through obedience to the law.

A bit later, Paul concludes his remarks on the path chosen by the Galatian Christians...

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. (Ga 5:1–6)​

Their attempts to be justified by obedience to the law caused them to "have become estranged from Christ" and to "have fallen from grace". It is unwise to follow in their footsteps.

Exactly!
Obeying the truth.
Not trying to keep the law of Moses.

Legalistic thinking is not limited to the law of Moses.

Can you see that Paul exhorted them to obey the truth?

I don't see it the same way you do. From the OP, you think, "obey the truth" points to "knowing the truth" and "knowing the truth is abiding (remaining, continuing) in His word; His teaching, His doctrine", and "Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God (2 John 1:9)".

But "obey the truth" in Galatians 3:1 does not refer to "Continuing in the Jesus's words, His teachings, and His doctrines" and the charge that they did "not obey the truth" does not refer to them "transgressing" and "not abiding" in "Christ's doctrine".

"Not obeying the truth" in Galatians 3:1 refers to the Galatian Christians abandoning the idea that their rightness with God was solely due to the sacrifice of Christ and instead adopting idea that their rightness with God was through their obedience to His demands. The context proves this is what it means.

Going further, if anyone thinks that their own rightness with God is through obedience to His demands and is not solely due to Christ's sacrifice for their sins, then they are following in the Galatian Christians' footsteps. And Paul's (inspired) exhortation applies to them, "Who has bewitched you?"

 

[JLB]

You are stuck on a false doctrine.
Jesus' words in Matt 9:17 refute it..."Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved."
Your version of a convert is as an old bottle.
It can't last.

Sorry but you just stated an opinion and tagged it with a scripture reference.


Here is what Jesus taught about one Christian brother who sins against another brother.

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17

• if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

If a Christian should sin against another brother in Christ, then the one should go to him in an effort to get him to see his wrong and turn him back in order to restore him.

James says it this way -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20



JLB

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

That’s a lot of scripture referring to baptism that does not do anything!

How do we put on Christ?

Two ways...

"26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Ga 3:26–27)​

​

"But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts." (Ro 13:14)​

The first way is not referring to sprinkling babies with water in a ceremony before they can even crawl, much less believe anything. It is referring to the real baptism by which we receive Christ through faith and by Him entering our hearts we are resurrected from the dead.

The second way referrs to us adopting the mindest that Christ lives in us, that He is leading, guiding, directing, teaching, warning, correcting, and comforting us from the intimacy of our own hearts, and that to live successful lives we must walk in the light He shines on our paths.

 

[JLB]

You don’t believe in the sacraments of God?

List the scriptures that use the word sacraments.

 

[JLB]

Legalistic thinking is not limited to the law of Moses.

Please show me the scriptures I quoted, that you believe refer to "legalistic thinking".

 

[JLB]

From the OP, you think, "obey the truth"

Please define the truth for me.

If you want to use my definition from the OP then please do so.

 

[donadams]

Ok, fine.

So the sacraments justify us so that we may live holy lives, but when we fail to live holy lives, we lose it all. Then what? Participating in the sacraments justify us again so that we may resume holy living? Until we sin again? And this repeats how often? Wouldn't it become obvious after a few cycles that it isn't working?

Would you prefer the state of the fallen angels, lost forever!

Would you prefer to believe something that’s untrue like “I’m saved, I can’t sin, I can’t be lost?

God is merciful and grants us a means of forgiveness and grace

Thank God!

 

[donadams]

You are doing it again (quoting verses out of context). Nothing in Ephesians 4:5 indicates physical baptism. The one and only baptism that counts is the real one, the one that happened when Jesus came to live in our hearts, burring our sins at the cross and raising us to live in the newness of the Spirit.

You have not yet told me how you came up with those three supporting verses that had nothing to do with the subject matter of your post. As I said, it is important for me to know how you came up with those particular verses because I need to know what kind of person I'm dealing with.

That is the sacrament of baptismal regeneration

Ez 36:25-27
Baptism
New heart
Spirit
And faith hope and Christ being filled with Grace

 

[Hopeful 2]

Sorry but you just stated an opinion and tagged it with a scripture reference.

Don't be sorry, just heed the message !
A new man won't last in an old vessel.
You cling to the old vessel doctrine like it was from God.
It isn't !

Here is what Jesus taught about one Christian brother who sins against another brother.
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17
if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

He sure did, to OT men who were still walking in the flesh, instead of in the Spirit: as rebirth of the Spirit was not yet available.
All were still sinning.

If a Christian should sin against another brother in Christ, then the one should go to him in an effort to get him to see his wrong and turn him back in order to restore him.

There were no Christians, until after Jesus was raised from the dead and men could be baptized into Him.

James says it this way -
Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

If a man is bringing forth the devil's fruit, he hasn't been reborn of God's seed.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Would you prefer the state of the fallen angels, lost forever!

No, unlike fallen angels, all my past, present, and future sins are forgiven.

Would you prefer to believe something that’s untrue like “I’m saved, I can’t sin, I can’t be lost?

Some people believe in sinless perfection, but I don't.

God is merciful and grants us a means of forgiveness and grace

Thank God!

Yes, and that was the one-time sacrifice Jesus offered for our sins.