Does a Christian have two spirits?

[follower]

Oh yeah, wandered in the wilderness. Sorry if i was unclear.

(I looked on the map and between Egypt and Israel, isn't very far. It's amazing that they were lost for 40 years with such a short journey (comparatively), wow)

who said they were lost ?

 

[Edward]

who said they were lost ?

Uh...I did. 2

I did sort of presume there, didn't I? But, it's not really as if they were simply following Gods orders, because if they did they would not have wandered so long, they kept turning on God in different ways and murmuring and stuff. They were sort of following Moses, but it seemed like they were mad most the time. They really wanted to get there. I figure if they knew the way, they would have told Moses to go pound sand and went home...hence they were lost...

 

[follower]

Uh...I did. 2

I did sort of presume there, didn't I? But, it's not really as if they were simply following Gods orders, because if they did they would not have wandered so long, they kept turning on God in different ways and murmuring and stuff. They were sort of following Moses, but it seemed like they were mad most the time. They really wanted to get there. I figure if they knew the way, they would have told Moses to go pound sand and went home...hence they were lost...

oh, oh, now i'm sad..... i don't know whether to suggest you go read genesis again, errr.... exodus... etc .... or just tell you.....

i'm just going to tell you.... okay ? ..... Yhwh directly led them. Very very very directly. they did not dare move unless He moved. they did not dare stay, unless He stayed.
whether it was a stop of an hour, or of a month,
they did not dare take a step to move camp unless Yhwh led them. (the mystery of how, the open mystery, i'll let you discover joyfully - it is greatly astonishing ! ) (and it's an open mystery - it is plain even in the english translations, although in Hebrew is much much richer and fuller and beneficial and edifying and life-giving and so much more ! )

 

[Edward]

oh, oh, now i'm sad..... i don't know whether to suggest you go read genesis again, errr.... exodus... etc .... or just tell you.....

i'm just going to tell you.... okay ? ..... Yhwh directly led them. Very very very directly. they did not dare move unless He moved. they did not dare stay, unless He stayed.
whether it was a stop of an hour, or of a month,
they did not dare take a step to move camp unless Yhwh led them. (the mystery of how, the open mystery, i'll let you discover joyfully - it is greatly astonishing ! ) (and it's an open mystery - it is plain even in the english translations, although in Hebrew is much much richer and fuller and beneficial and edifying and life-giving and so much more ! )

Oh, i remember. A pillar of fire at night and a pillar of cloud during the day. But they would have made it sooner if they had not disobeyed and murmured so much. I'm reading that into it of course. I don't think God intended to let them wander, but they provoked Him at times, so He chastised them. Most of Gods promises to them back then were of the type...if this then that. If you obey, then I'll do this for you. And they had trouble with that, like we all do I suppose.

 

[follower]

yes! i was just reading a bit about how minutely Yhwh led them - to the second, or minute if you prefer, Yhwh knows - and how amazingly, not just led them, but provided manna fresh 6 days, and then none at all on the 7th day.
yes, because they disobeyed, Yhwh led them round and round (or back and forth) , for 40 years
until all the ones who had rebelled who were over 20 years old when they left egypt had died.

 

[Edward]

yes! i was just reading a bit about how minutely Yhwh led them - to the second, or minute if you prefer, Yhwh knows - and how amazingly, not just led them, but provided manna fresh 6 days, and then none at all on the 7th day.
yes, because they disobeyed, Yhwh led them round and round (or back and forth) , for 40 years
until all the ones who had rebelled who were over 20 years old when they left egypt had died.

Yep. And they never have totally inherited all of the promised land as it was promised to them. They may not until the 1000 year reign I suspect.

I know many will disagree with me here, but the borders of what they are supposed to own are clearly lined out in scripture. And they've never held it yet.

Brother, it's late, I better hit the sack and catch up with you tomorrow. I have a few things to do tomorrow and just noticed how late it is!

Have a blessed weekend brother!

 

[follower]

Yep.....
Have a blessed weekend brother!

boy, a 1000 year rain...... and Noah only had 40 days and nights ! SHABBAT SHALOM to all in YESHUA !

 

[eddif]

Caleb and Joshua and all young men under twenty years old went in. I know you know this, you just got confused. Two men could not represent all 12 tribes.

Edward making his statement has really set me to thinking. Only 3 fully adult people made it through the wilderness, and to the banks of Jordan.

Abraham looked for a city whose builder and maker was God. I really see the faith city as being the reality of what we are looking for.

Moses may have made it into the spiritual heaven and just failed to make into the physical reward on earth. Elijah in the chariot and the argument over the body of Moses; these two Luke 9:29-30 appeared with Jesus.

Moses failed in his human spirit, but made it to Abrahams city whose builder and maker was God. This may be the best example of the two spirits.

I do tend toward the thought that Abrahams collection of saints still exists (white robes and all). I do not wish to argue/ fully discuss this though. There is a chance that Abraham's area was emptied at the end of Jesus's life / death / resurrection. For this thread it does not matter. Moses still fits as having a frail human condition, but a strong spirit that was still preparing Joshua to take Israel into the physical promised land.

Only the one new man can really get us through all this.

Thanks to everyone who continues to struggle through all this . I have a rough time trying to deal with Romans 7:25
To me this is the two spirits of man. One judged by the Lambs book of life, and the other judged by works done in the flesh.

At times I could be clearer, but as I give what I have ; then a little more comes.

eddif

 

[eddif]

boy, a 1000 year rain...... and Noah only had 40 days and nights ! SHABBAT SHALOM to all in YESHUA !

Genesis 2:6
A mist came up and watered the earth before the flood.

After a deluge Noah had rain for the rest of his life. The bow in the heavens was a sign.

The rivers out of our belly are a sign of the spiritual rain that is falling (daily ?).

eddif

 

[eddif]

The former physical rain.
The latter spiritual rain.

eddif

 

[eddif]

The former physical rain.
The latter spiritual rain.

eddif

The first sign in the physical heavens was for no more physical (total) destruction

The second sign of Jesus at the right hand of the father was for eternal life.

Different covenants.

eddif

 

[eddif]

oh, oh, now i'm sad..... i don't know whether to suggest you go read genesis again, errr.... exodus... etc .... or just tell you.....

i'm just going to tell you.... okay ? ..... Yhwh directly led them. Very very very directly. they did not dare move unless He moved. they did not dare stay, unless He stayed.
whether it was a stop of an hour, or of a month,
they did not dare take a step to move camp unless Yhwh led them. (the mystery of how, the open mystery, i'll let you discover joyfully - it is greatly astonishing ! ) (and it's an open mystery - it is plain even in the english translations, although in Hebrew is much much richer and fuller and beneficial and edifying and life-giving and so much more ! )

We are the tabernacle today.
We see darkly (cloudy) in the day
We see the fiery dreams by night

We have bones for staves (valley of dry bones), hides for covering (skin with hair), kidneys for cleaning blood (lavers for washing), etc .

We are led by the Spirit.

eddif

 

[Deborah13]

oh, oh, now i'm sad..... i don't know whether to suggest you go read genesis again, errr.... exodus... etc .... or just tell you.....

i'm just going to tell you.... okay ? ..... Yhwh directly led them. Very very very directly. they did not dare move unless He moved. they did not dare stay, unless He stayed.
whether it was a stop of an hour, or of a month,
they did not dare take a step to move camp unless Yhwh led them. (the mystery of how, the open mystery, i'll let you discover joyfully - it is greatly astonishing ! ) (and it's an open mystery - it is plain even in the english translations, although in Hebrew is much much richer and fuller and beneficial and edifying and life-giving and so much more ! )

So you read Hebrew, that is good to know. Something that has puzzled me is when a 'W' sound is used and written as a 'w' in English for the 'vav'. I have wondered about this several times and can't find the answer. How does one know when a 'w' sound should be used for 'vav' and when a 'v' sound should be used for 'vav'? Are there other Hebrew words where the 'vav' sounds like a 'w'?

I don't mean to derail the thread but having a person who reads Hebrew can be very beneficial and with the Messianic movement this YHWH rather than YHVH, appears often in threads and other writings.

 

[Deborah13]

Edward making his statement has really set me to thinking. Only 3 fully adult people made it through the wilderness, and to the banks of Jordan.

Abraham looked for a city whose builder and maker was God. I really see the faith city as being the reality of what we are looking for.

Moses may have made it into the spiritual heaven and just failed to make into the physical reward on earth. Elijah in the chariot and the argument over the body of Moses; these two Luke 9:29-30 appeared with Jesus.

Moses failed in his human spirit, but made it to Abrahams city whose builder and maker was God. This may be the best example of the two spirits.

I do tend toward the thought that Abrahams collection of saints still exists (white robes and all). I do not wish to argue/ fully discuss this though. There is a chance that Abraham's area was emptied at the end of Jesus's life / death / resurrection. For this thread it does not matter. Moses still fits as having a frail human condition, but a strong spirit that was still preparing Joshua to take Israel into the physical promised land.

Only the one new man can really get us through all this.

Thanks to everyone who continues to struggle through all this . I have a rough time trying to deal with Romans 7:25
To me this is the two spirits of man. One judged by the Lambs book of life, and the other judged by works done in the flesh.

At times I could be clearer, but as I give what I have ; then a little more comes.

eddif

I can see what you are saying I think and agree with much of it and continue to mull over some.
What three people are you referring to in the second line of your post?

The first sign in the physical heavens was for no more physical (total) destruction

The second sign of Jesus at the right hand of the father was for eternal life.

Different covenants.

eddif

Rev 4:2 and immediately I was in the Spirit, and lo, a throne was set in the heaven, and upon the throne is one sitting,
Rev 4:3 and He who is sitting was in sight like a stone, jasper and sardine: and a rainbow was round the throne in sight like an emerald.

 

[eddif]

I can see what you are saying I think and agree with much of it and continue to mull over some.
What three people are you referring to in the second line of your post?



Rev 4:2 and immediately I was in the Spirit, and lo, a throne was set in the heaven, and upon the throne is one sitting,
Rev 4:3 and He who is sitting was in sight like a stone, jasper and sardine: and a rainbow was round the throne in sight like an emerald.

I must have said something wrong just now. One finger graze and 20 minutes of typing was gone.

I will mull with you .

For years I have looked at the 20 years and upward. God seems to use this age in determining an age of responsible behavior. Just a gentile (little g LOL) thought. I am just reading the story and drawing a conclusion to determine adult ( no traditions ) age.

So the three people are Joshua, Caleb, Moses. I hope I am not awful to just look at death as a statement for age. Two went into the physical land and one into the spiritual land .

The natural pacemaker does sit on the throne of the heart. I can agree Jesus is seated in heaven and in us. We are in Christ and Christ is in us.

The Indwelling Holy Spirit will work for the sign in the clouds of our mind.

I am open to discussion with all.

eddif

 

[Deborah13]

I must have said something wrong just now. One finger graze and 20 minutes of typing was gone.

I will mull with you .

For years I have looked at the 20 years and upward. God seems to use this age in determining an age of responsible behavior. Just a gentile (little g LOL) thought. I am just reading the story and drawing a conclusion to determine adult ( no traditions ) age.

So the three people are Joshua, Caleb, Moses. I hope I am not awful to just look at death as a statement for age. Two went into the physical land and one into the spiritual land .

The natural pacemaker does sit on the throne of the heart. I can agree Jesus is seated in heaven and in us. We are in Christ and Christ is in us.

The Indwelling Holy Spirit will work for the sign in the clouds of our mind.

I am open to discussion with all.

eddif

I agree with this whole post.

 

[FreeGrace]

We very well read in the bible that we have a spirit, soul , and a body. Now when we are born again God's Spirit comes and dwell in us.

So do we have two spirits?

1. The Spirit of God 2. Spirit of Man

Great question! 1 Tim 5:21 does mention the body, soul, and spirit. Also, Scripture sometimes uses "soul" and "spirit" interchangeably. However, Heb 4:12 very clearly distinguishes between the soul and spirit, just as it distinguishes between joints and marrow. While the first pair are immaterial and the latter material, that isn't the point, I don't believe. Concerning the material, joints are the spaces between bones, while marrow is found in bones. So, they cannot be considered the same thing. In the same way, we must distinguish between the soul and the human spirit.

This discussion involves the ideas of "dichotomy" and "trichotomy". The first word refers to man being of 2 parts: body and soul, while the second word refers to man being of 3 parts: body soul and spirit.

We know from Genesis that God warned Adam that eating from the forbidden tree would result in 2 deaths (from the literal Hebrew): "dying, you will die". Unfortunately, no English translation includes the 2 deaths. The "dying" refers to eventual physical death, meaning that from Adam's sin, he began to age and deteriorate. The 2nd death (you will die) refers to immediate (in the day that you eat of…) death. So, what kind of death is this? I believe it is Adam's human spirit that died, which resulted in Adam being separated from God. Remember, in physical death, the soul is separated from the body. So spiritual death is being separated from God, and unable to fix the problem.

So, Adam was created trichotomous, but became dichotomous because of his sin. That is why Paul told the Ephesians that they had been 'dead in your trespasses and sin' in Eph 2:1. IOW, all persons are born spiritually dead, separated from God.

We also know from Scripture that when one believes in Jesus Christ for salvation, they are "born again", also referred to as "regeneration". So, what has been re-born, or re-generated? The answer is the human spirit.

Jesus told the Samaritan woman that in order to worship God we must worship Him in spirit and in truth. I believe He was referring to having a living spirit, as no translation I'm aware of capitalizes the "s" in 'spirit'.

We also know that believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Does anyone wonder where He actually reside? It wouldn't make sense to think He resides in our corrupted bodies, or the soul, which is where our sin nature functions from.

It makes more sense to think that the dead human spirit is regenerated so the Holy Spirit can reside there.

A tough text is 1 Jn 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin,because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

On the surface, it seems that those born again cannot sin. But John had already noted in 1 Jn 2:1 that believers will sin, and in 1:9 gives us the remedy for our sin: confession.

However, the phrase "His seed ab ides in him" is interesting, and I believe refers to the re-generated human spirit, where the Holy Spirit resides.

Paul noted the conflict between our sin nature with our regenerated or "new nature" in Rom 7 and Gal 5. So, the challenge for believers is to function from their human spirit rather than from their sin nature. Paul said it this way: "set your minds on things above, not on things below": Col 3:2, Rom 8:5, and Phil 3:19.

So, in summary, all people born are dichotomous, and become trichotomous when they believe in Jesus Christ.

 

[FreeGrace]

Just read the rules: I quoted 1 Jn 3:9 from the NASB.

 

[jonahmano]

Great question! 1 Tim 5:21 does mention the body, soul, and spirit. Also, Scripture sometimes uses "soul" and "spirit" interchangeably. However, Heb 4:12 very clearly distinguishes between the soul and spirit, just as it distinguishes between joints and marrow. While the first pair are immaterial and the latter material, that isn't the point, I don't believe. Concerning the material, joints are the spaces between bones, while marrow is found in bones. So, they cannot be considered the same thing. In the same way, we must distinguish between the soul and the human spirit.

This discussion involves the ideas of "dichotomy" and "trichotomy". The first word refers to man being of 2 parts: body and soul, while the second word refers to man being of 3 parts: body soul and spirit.

We know from Genesis that God warned Adam that eating from the forbidden tree would result in 2 deaths (from the literal Hebrew): "dying, you will die". Unfortunately, no English translation includes the 2 deaths. The "dying" refers to eventual physical death, meaning that from Adam's sin, he began to age and deteriorate. The 2nd death (you will die) refers to immediate (in the day that you eat of…) death. So, what kind of death is this? I believe it is Adam's human spirit that died, which resulted in Adam being separated from God. Remember, in physical death, the soul is separated from the body. So spiritual death is being separated from God, and unable to fix the problem.

So, Adam was created trichotomous, but became dichotomous because of his sin. That is why Paul told the Ephesians that they had been 'dead in your trespasses and sin' in Eph 2:1. IOW, all persons are born spiritually dead, separated from God.

We also know from Scripture that when one believes in Jesus Christ for salvation, they are "born again", also referred to as "regeneration". So, what has been re-born, or re-generated? The answer is the human spirit.

Jesus told the Samaritan woman that in order to worship God we must worship Him in spirit and in truth. I believe He was referring to having a living spirit, as no translation I'm aware of capitalizes the "s" in 'spirit'.

We also know that believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Does anyone wonder where He actually reside? It wouldn't make sense to think He resides in our corrupted bodies, or the soul, which is where our sin nature functions from.

It makes more sense to think that the dead human spirit is regenerated so the Holy Spirit can reside there.

A tough text is 1 Jn 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin,because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

On the surface, it seems that those born again cannot sin. But John had already noted in 1 Jn 2:1 that believers will sin, and in 1:9 gives us the remedy for our sin: confession.

However, the phrase "His seed ab ides in him" is interesting, and I believe refers to the re-generated human spirit, where the Holy Spirit resides.

Paul noted the conflict between our sin nature with our regenerated or "new nature" in Rom 7 and Gal 5. So, the challenge for believers is to function from their human spirit rather than from their sin nature. Paul said it this way: "set your minds on things above, not on things below": Col 3:2, Rom 8:5, and Phil 3:19.

So, in summary, all people born are dichotomous, and become trichotomous when they believe in Jesus Christ.

Bit convinced with your thoughts. Let's see if anyone comes to counter this. Anyways thanks for the valuable information

 

[reba]

Yep. And they never have totally inherited all of the promised land as it was promised to them. They may not until the 1000 year reign I suspect.

I know many will disagree with me here, but the borders of what they are supposed to own are clearly lined out in scripture. And they've never held it yet.

Brother, it's late, I better hit the sack and catch up with you tomorrow. I have a few things to do tomorrow and just noticed how late it is!

Have a blessed weekend brother!

Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.