Does Demon Possession get confused with the Concurrent Resurrection of the Spirit Body within the Physical?

[gordon777]

Even a child could read that one verse and understand what it means without analyzing it or scrutinizing it putting it under a microscope to dissect it. Jesus said it, I believe it, end of story.

The child also has to see that the Word of God is quick powerful and sharp, sharper than any two edged sword, even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, as it is the discerner of the thoughts and intentions of the heart ( of man.)



Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[Free]

That is before He ascended of course, as flesh and blood cant inherit heaven

Again, when flesh and blood is used in that sense, it is a figure of speech, meaning that that which is of sin, death, and decay, that which is perishable, cannot inherit heaven. When believers enter heaven, we still have physical bodies, like Jesus did after his resurrection, and still has, but they are made imperishable and immortal. That is the whole point in 1 Cor 15. Those in Christ who are dead are physically raised and, along with those who are alive, will have glorified physical bodies, incapable of corruption and death.

We did know Him after the flesh, you are right, but no we know Him no more ever again that way we once knew Him( flesh this time is physical, as we never knew Jesus after sins of the flesh)



2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

No, flesh is not physical this time. It is speaking of how we sinfully relate to people in regards to social relations and distinctions, according to how the world regards and relates to others. Unbelievers have an erroneous understanding of Christ, because they only know him "after the flesh," according to their sinful natures; they cannot know him otherwise, who he truly is.

It is the same idea in Galatians 3:27-28:

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (ESV)

Physically, there clearly is male and female, in life there are Jews, Greeks, slaves, and free people, but, in Christ these social relations mean nothing and are not the bases of how we are to regard each other.

 

[ezrider]

I haven't done that. That comes from a plain reading of Scripture. It is the Bible that states it; I'm just repeating it. You are trying to expand on what the Bible already has made plain.

If you want to disagree, then, please, post one verse that applies the term "believers" to anyone other than followers of Christ. If I am wrong, that should be easy. If there isn't one, then you probably should reconsider making the Bible say something it doesn't. I can not make you understand the spirit of the word when you can only see the letter of the word. And we know the the letter of the word engenders to death.

How can one begin to understand the spirit of the word when they can not see beyond the letter of the word? As Paul states in the scriptures, the letter engenders to death, but the spirit of the word engenders to life.

Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


You know, those called to the resurrection of life, they follow after the Spirit wherever He should lead, But those of the other type of resurrection spoken of in Dan 12 and John 5, they know nothing but the letter!

 

[for_his_glory]

Why would God repeat the judgement that has already been declared to the wicked, into their ears a second time ?

Also why would the wicked repeat the same answers, that they never knew the Lord was hungry, or thirsty, and failed to minister to Him ?

Like I said, IMO, I see everything happening very quickly like in the twinkling of an eye when Christ returns on the last day, which means no more days here on earth as all is in God's timing, not our timing. Some see the Millennium as literal in being a 1000 years and some like me only symbolic in its numbering, but that is another thread so will not address the 1000 years in here. The quickening of the dead has not yet come nor God's final judgement as the books (not literal books) have not been opened yet where all receive final judgement when Christ separates the sheep from the goats. All who are in the grave have made their own final destinations and in the end will be judged for the choices they made while they were alive.

 

[for_his_glory]

All has occurred already, the wicked given favor will not deal justly, and the ones who have faith, believe to the saving of the soul. ( that is being born of God now, which is the life of Christ in us, and He is the resurrection and the life.)

Nothing has occurred yet as far as God's final judgements. The dead have not been resurrected yet. Why can you not see this. The wicked are never given favor by God. If that was the case then all of us would live after the lust of the flesh.

The just are those who are Christ own being Spiritually born again from above and indwelled with the Holy Spirit as what God has given Jesus, He will not loose none of them.

The unjust are those who reject God and His Son Christ Jesus as they have already damned themselves to the lake of fire when final judgements are rendered.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yeah, the thousand years is one day to the Lord, it is the day of salvation, and they reign with Him for ever.


Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.



All shall wail because of the Lamb.

Isaiah shows how they went into the clefts of the rock for fear of the Lord, when He arose to shake the earth.

Hebrews 12 continues how God shakes heaven also, to signify the new earth and heaven which canot be shaken and remains. The purpose is told, so WE FEAR GOD ( that is why they who pierced Him and all eyes should fear the Lord is a consuming fire who consumes the heaven and the earth.


Isaiah 2:21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.

2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

The fear of the Lord is to respect Him in all His righteous judgements for judgement belongs to Christ in whom God has given Him.

Rev 1:7 the only ones who will wail, which means a prolonged high pitched cry of pain, grief, or anger, will be those who have damned them own selves for rejecting Jesus. The rest who are Christ own will be rejoicing at His coming.

Those who are in Christ can not be shakened during the seven trumpets of God's fierce wrath being poured out upon the earth as this will be the greatest time of our faith in Him to take care of us.

 

[for_his_glory]

We are justified by faith, in the rising of Christ from the dead.

The three Pharisees cannot be justified by faith, until we have faith in the blood of Christ, shed for us......

We are justified by God's grace through faith, not by seeing the rising of Christ from the dead, but believing He did as three that bear witness are the same as what was bared to the three Pharisees that believed by faith like all of us.


1John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

John 3:16-21, Ephesians 2:1-10; Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen as whosoever will believe in Christ Jesus will be saved. The three Pharisees by God's free gift of grace through faith that is Christ Jesus,

Christ is revealed to us by His the words the Father gave Him to speak (word) as the Holy Spirit reveals all truth. That which was revealed to those three Pharisees is what is still revealed to us today in all who will believe by faith.

 

[for_his_glory]

Of course they do, all live unto God

Free said: physically dead people do not hold conversations.

You refute this by saying the physically dead that are in the grave can hold conversations, so how does a physically dead person hold a conversation?

We become dead to self (lust of the flesh) and live for Christ after we are Spiritually born again from above, but yet live in a physical body until we die.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus is not of this world( not physical) and we are quickened with Him ( more than Adam who was only a living soul)

Justification is not in those Pharisees you mentioned earlier, it is by the righteousness of one, that all men receive justification of life( through the death and life of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.)




1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

I give up as what Free and I are trying to show you with scripture you choose to ignore by giving us scripture that has nothing to do with the resurrection of the physically dead. It's time to move on.

 

[for_his_glory]

If you wish to try and judge who is a "true Christian" and to those you say never "really believed" in Christ because of the way you wish to see it "according" to the NT writings, then you have closed yourself off from learning from the examples of the Pharisees, who they themselves believed in and held in high esteem the manuscripts and the oracles of God. Those who call themselves Christian today are no different, they view the NT the same way the Pharisees viewed the old.

Why would I even want to reject the NT writings of the doctrines of Christ and believe what the Pharisees taught, but did not practice themselves being hypocrites and even killed the Prophets and Jesus who was sent to them. Go back and read Matthew 25:31-36 where Jesus characterizes and then condemns the Pharisees.

 

[ezrider]

Why would I even want to reject the NT writings of the doctrines of Christ and believe what the Pharisees taught, but did not practice themselves being hypocrites and even killed the Prophets and Jesus who was sent to them. Go back and read Matthew 25:31-36 where Jesus characterizes and then condemns the Pharisees.

Where did I ask you to reject the NT writings? Where did I ask you to believe what the Pharisees taught? Where? you seem to be making some sort of accusation when I have do NO such thing.

Is it that impossible, or that incomprehensible that you can not understand the concept of how both the Pharisees and the Christians of today BOTH held or hold the manuscripts and the scriptures with the same esteem. Really? I have nothing more to add.

 

[Free]

How can one begin to understand the spirit of the word when they can not see beyond the letter of the word? As Paul states in the scriptures, the letter engenders to death, but the spirit of the word engenders to life.

Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


You know, those called to the resurrection of life, they follow after the Spirit wherever He should lead, But those of the other type of resurrection spoken of in Dan 12 and John 5, they know nothing but the letter!

If we use that passage in the way you have, we could justify all manner of incorrect interpretations of Scripture.

I have shown from the NT that believers refers only to followers of Christ. It’s first use is in Acts.

 

[gordon777]

Again, when flesh and blood is used in that sense, it is a figure of speech, meaning that that which is of sin, death, and decay, that which is perishable, cannot inherit heaven. When believers enter heaven, we still have physical bodies, like Jesus did after his resurrection, and still has, but they are made imperishable and immortal. That is the whole point in 1 Cor 15. Those in Christ who are dead are physically raised and, along with those who are alive, will have glorified physical bodies, incapable of corruption and death.

What we have now is not corruptible, and wont see death. ( we put on Christ who gave us the victory over death)


John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.




We were redeemed not with corruptible, but with incorruptible, with the precious blood of Christ, without blemish or spot.

That is being born again ( born of God, not of flesh or blood. John 1:12-13. 1 Corinthians 15:50.) not of corruptible seed ( of Adam) as all in Adam die ( corruptible) but all in Christ shall be made alive. ( born again of incorruptible seed of Christ.)

The Word of God is that which lives and abides for ever, but all flesh ( physical man/corruptible seed) is as grass, and the grass whithers and fades away, but the Word of God ( incorruptible seed) endures for ever.

The hidden man of the heart is that which is not corruptible.




1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1 Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

 

[gordon777]

No, flesh is not physical this time. It is speaking of how we sinfully relate to people in regards to social relations and distinctions, according to how the world regards and relates to others. Unbelievers have an erroneous understanding of Christ, because they only know him "after the flesh," according to their sinful natures; they cannot know him otherwise, who he truly is.

It is the same idea in Galatians 3:27-28:

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (ESV)

Physically, there clearly is male and female, in life there are Jews, Greeks, slaves, and free people, but, in Christ these social relations mean nothing and are not the bases of how we are to regard each other.

No need to try to interpret. 2 Corinthians 5, begins telling what the chapter is about ( flesh or Spirit) how the building of God eternal in the heavens is not made with hands ( Spirit ) and we desire to be clothed with that ( as in the fklesh we are naked) clothed to not be found naked.





2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.




Now that God has given us the Spirit, through Christ dying for all and rising again, we do only know Him ( given us the Spirit/ the Spirit of Christ in us.) and no more flesh, as if any man is in Christ ( the Spirit) we are a new creature and all is new and of God ( of the Spirit) and we cannot know Christ after the flesh any more, as He is that new creature in us.

All speaks of the Spirit, renewed in the spirit of our mind, to pout on the new man which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.




2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[gordon777]

The quickening of the dead has not yet come nor God's final judgement as the books (not literal books) have not been opened yet where all receive final judgement when Christ separates the sheep from the goats. All who are in the grave have made their own final destinations and in the end will be judged for the choices they made while they were alive.

We are quickened.



1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

 

[gordon777]

Nothing has occurred yet as far as God's final judgements. The dead have not been resurrected yet. Why can you not see this. The wicked are never given favor by God. If that was the case then all of us would live after the lust of the flesh.

The just are those who are Christ own being Spiritually born again from above and indwelled with the Holy Spirit as what God has given Jesus, He will not loose none of them.

The unjust are those who reject God and His Son Christ Jesus as they have already damned themselves to the lake of fire when final judgements are rendered.

The wicked are given favor, and all are those unjust given the free gift.

We were foolish and disobedient ( before faith came) but the kindness and love of God our Saviour came favor was shown to the wicked but they do not learn righteousness.)




Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;





That is right, the unjust are those who reject, and are already damned ( already are the resurrection of damnation they came forth to.)

As for the fire, the wrath of God was already abiding on them.




John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[gordon777]

Rev 1:7 the only ones who will wail, which means a prolonged high pitched cry of pain, grief, or anger, will be those who have damned them own selves for rejecting Jesus. The rest who are Christ own will be rejoicing at His coming.

Those who are in Christ can not be shakened during the seven trumpets of God's fierce wrath being poured out upon the earth as this will be the greatest time of our faith in Him to take care of us.

The fierce wrath of God already abides on them, why not recognize what is shared with you. ( Christ needs to abide in us to avoid the judgement, as he that believes on the Son has everlasting life in them. That is the difference and understanding of the resurrection of life, and the resurrection of damnation. The ones who do not believe, abide already in death, that is the resurrection of damnation, it is not the resurrection of life, but is death and they remain dead.)




John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.



1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[gordon777]

We are justified by God's grace through faith, not by seeing the rising of Christ from the dead, but believing He did as three that bear witness are the same as what was bared to the three Pharisees that believed by faith like all of us.


1John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

We do not know if the three Pharisees continued to believe and be saved ( Paul noted how others fell away from the faith)



2 Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.





But interesting to realize, He that believes the Son ( that He is risen from the dead) sees life ( sees the resurrection of life) but he that believes not in the Son ( that He rose to life) shall not see life. ( the wrath of God abides on them which is their resurrection of damnation instead of the resurrection of life which we see/the life of Christ manifested. 1 John 1:2.)

He that has the Son has life, and he that has not the Son has not life. ( they cannot be resurrected to life, as they have not got life.)




John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.






That is why we are testified if the Spirit of God is in us, that is what quickens us ( quickened together with Christ.) otherwise we cannot be risen. Quickening is through the Spirit given us through believing the words of Spirit and life of Christ.)





John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[gordon777]

We become dead to self (lust of the flesh) and live for Christ after we are Spiritually born again from above, but yet live in a physical body until we die.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

We are crucified and live, yet not us living, but Christ lives in us, and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God who loved us and gave Himself for us.




Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[gordon777]

Also we do not speak to God, it is God sending forth the Spirit of His only Son into our hearts that speaks to God.


Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.



Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.


Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.