Does Demon Possession get confused with the Concurrent Resurrection of the Spirit Body within the Physical?

[for_his_glory]

Christ has come in the flesh, and did come to us and this is the resurrection.

No one is denying that Jesus came in the flesh, but the only resurrection is that of His own as no one has been resurrected from the grave yet and taken up to heaven yet.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[ezrider]

His second coming only refers to his physical coming just prior to judgement. That is what the NT refers to as "his coming," such as in the verse I gave.

I am going to agree more so with Terraphim on this matter. It seems that you, as a physical entity in and of the flesh, only tends to look towards a physical return, the return of the Son of Man. Others of us, have watched for the return of the Son of God, the Spirit of Christ.

It's all under grace. Either one has accepted Christ as Lord and is "just," or they have not and are "unjust".

This is not so. Even Paul wrote on the book of Romans For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

The living and the dead, the just and the unjust.

The living are justified in Christ, and are partake in His Resurrection. The First Resurrection. That one happen nearly two thousand years ago, and people have been enjoined to his resurrection generation after generation since.

The dead are those are not justified by the Faith of Christ, the dead are the unjust because they try to justify their own righteousness through the law and through their works. They happen to not be found in the lamb's book of life, and hope for their own personal resurrection after the coming of Son of Man, and the second death.

What is the determining factor of who is resurrected and who is not? According to your position, the resurrection has happened for some and not for others. This makes the quotation applicable. Yet, when Paul and Jesus both speak of the resurrection, it is always a single future event. It is never spoken of as an ongoing process.

I would say God's judgement is the determining factor. Not your judgement, not mine, God's only.

The resurrection of the just and the unjust.

Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


John 5:25
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Now it doesn't seem like Jesus was pointing to a single future event when he say it is coming, AND NOW IS.

But, again, the resurrection is never spoken of as an ongoing process and always as a single future event at the return of Christ. That believers who die are with the Lord in spirit now, is the very reason why they will be reunited with their bodies in the future resurrection. That is the whole point.

Have you ever come across a single, legitimate scholar or theologian, throughout the history of the Church, who shares these views?

41 And I said, Behold, O Lord, yet art thou nigh unto them that be reserved till the end: and what shall they do that have been before me, or we that be now, or they that shall come after us?
42 And he said unto me, I will liken my judgment unto a ring: like as there is no slackness of the last, even so there is no swiftness of the first.
43 So I answered and said, Couldest thou not make those that have been made, and be now, and that are for to come, at once; that thou mightest shew thy judgment the sooner?
44 Then answered he me, and said, The creature may not haste above the maker; neither may the world hold them at once that shall be created therein.
45 And I said, As thou hast said unto thy servant, that thou, which givest life to all, hast given life at once to the creature that thou hast created, and the creature bare it: even so it might now also bear them that now be present at once.
46 And he said unto me, Ask the womb of a woman, and say unto her, If thou bringest forth children, why dost thou it not together, but one after another? pray her therefore to bring forth ten children at once.
47 And I said, She cannot: but must do it by distance of time.
48 Then said he unto me, Even so have I given the womb of the earth to those that be sown in it in their times.


https://www.biblestudytools.com/kjva/2-esdras/5.html

 

[ezrider]

So, when we consider the context of 1 Cor 15, we see that:

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
...
1Co 15:49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.
...
1Co 15:51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. (ESV)

When this mortal body put on immortality, then have cast of our own Gospel Armor and have been given the gown of the bride, and have been wed: for the two shall become one flesh.

 

[ezrider]

The unjust are unbelievers, the unrighteous.

NO. The unjust are believers too. They believe in the crucifixion, they believe Jesus is a perpetual sacrifice for there sins. They continue after the works of the law, but they do NOT LIVE BY FAITH. Only those who live by Faith will be justified, or made just. The unrighteous seek their own righteousness from the LAW, and NOT the righteousness that comes from God. They believe Jesus was resurrected, but they deny the power of his resurrection. They even deny that Jesus has put away sin in the flesh.

 

[gordon777]

No one is denying that Jesus came in the flesh, but the only resurrection is that of His own as no one has been resurrected from the grave yet and taken up to heaven yet.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

I made a new thread just now regarding the antichrist denying Jesus came in the flesh. ( those who are antichrist can no longer hide, all is revealed very easily simply, and completely about them and what they tried to do.)




The Kingdom of God is within us, 9 Luke 17;20-21.) and the scripture you quoted shows how the Son of man was lifted up, and that drew all men to Him. ( In heaven.)



John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

 

[gordon777]

42 And he said unto me, I will liken my judgment unto a ring: like as there is no slackness of the last, even so there is no swiftness of the first.

43 So I answered and said, Couldest thou not make those that have been made, and be now, and that are for to come, at once; that thou mightest shew thy judgment the sooner?
44 Then answered he me, and said, The creature may not haste above the maker; neither may the world hold them at once that shall be created therein.
45 And I said, As thou hast said unto thy servant, that thou, which givest life to all, hast given life at once to the creature that thou hast created, and the creature bare it: even so it might now also bear them that now be present at once.

46 And he said unto me, Ask the womb of a woman, and say unto her, If thou bringest forth children, why dost thou it not together, but one after another? pray her therefore to bring forth ten children at once.
47 And I said, She cannot: but must do it by distance of time.
48 Then said he unto me, Even so have I given the womb of the earth to those that be sown in it in their times.


https://www.biblestudytools.com/kjva/2-esdras/5.html

Do you think that quote of Esdras sounds like the rest of the scriptures in the bible ?

You think Gods judgement is like a ring ?

It mentions slackness, and the slackness I know is testified in 2 Peter 3:9, ( we know Peter was with Christ) which is the Lords promise of judgement and of eternal life, and He is longsuffering and not willing that any should perish ( due to Him being longsuffering and not slack.)


2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.



Then this writing questions God if He could not have made His judgement sooner. ( that is answered as I just showed in 2 Peter 3:9.)

This writing gives the answer that the creature cannot be faster than the creator, and the world holds them who are made, not all at once ( others are created later.)


Again the same from James who said , that God has long patience (longsuffering for the early and latter rain)


James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.



Lastly the writing ( edras) says the earth is given as a womb, to bare children at different times.

But, what Christ revealed ( never told before in the world. Isaiah 52:15) is that Christ sowed the good seed ( not the earth given as a womb) and Christ came to the world but His seed is of heaven ( not of earth) and the enemy that sows the tares ( evil seed) shows his seed on earth ( not heavenly)




Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.





The edras writing then can be made distinct from the rest of the scriptures, as the wisdom does not descend from above, ( is earthly/ devlish.)

But the wisdom from above ( Christ gives us all heavenly and not of the earth/earthy.) is pure, full of mercy and good fruits, and without hypocrisy.



James 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

 

[gordon777]

That is why I made the new thread just now, for what antichrist is, they are not wise as serpents for nothing, yet they are fully revealed, because He that is in us, is greater than he that is in the world. ( antichrist spirit.)

It is easy for people to recognize that the resurrection of Christ is the resurrection we must believe in ( and not a future date to look for, but now and since 2000 years ago.)

But even though they profess and have a form of godliness, they cannot speak in purity, they can only show their deceit/hypocrisy and God has not testified for nothing that their folly shall be fully known.

This is the testimonies of what the antichrist is, they are ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth ( the love of the truth 2 Thessalonians 2:10. 1 Peter 1:22.) as they do not confess that the love of God is perfected in us ( they confess transgression.)

The doctrine of the Lord is charity, longsuffering, patience, persecutions and afflictions, and the evil men seducers will wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.




2 Timothy 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

 

[for_his_glory]

I made a new thread just now regarding the antichrist denying Jesus came in the flesh. ( those who are antichrist can no longer hide, all is revealed very easily simply, and completely about them and what they tried to do.)




The Kingdom of God is within us, 9 Luke 17;20-21.) and the scripture you quoted shows how the Son of man was lifted up, and that drew all men to Him. ( In heaven.)



John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

You can start as many threads as you want in how you understand the resurrection, but you need to also know that many have the right to disagree with what you believe and in disagreements we need to respect and show love for each other in how we understand scripture.

 

[gordon777]

Yes, enough threads are made now, about belief of the resurrection of Christ, it is easy for all to know, all the things we are told in scripture are for our belief and preparation, and now that knowledge is increased ( by God revealing more) nothing is left covered or misunderstood.


Luke 12:2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

 

[ezrider]

Do you think that quote of Esdras sounds like the rest of the scriptures in the bible ?

Not going to single out just one quote, the book is in the 1611 KJV. Does the book of Esdras sound like the rest of scripture? Most certainly.

You think Gods judgement is like a ring ?

That is how it is characterized. I see no reason to dispute it, only an opportunity to contemplate it.

Is God's judgement like a ring? Yes... like as there is no slackness of the last, even so there is no swiftness of the first.

You've already quoted some scripture demonstrating God is longsuffering. Don't think Esdras is saying anything different.

Lastly the writing ( edras) says the earth is given as a womb, to bare children at different times.

Were you born of your mother's womb?

From the dust of the earth was Adam created. To the dust you shall return.

The edras writing then can be made distinct from the rest of the scriptures, as the wisdom does not descend from above, ( is earthly/ devlish.)

But the wisdom from above ( Christ gives us all heavenly and not of the earth/earthy.) is pure, full of mercy and good fruits, and without hypocrisy.

That is your opinion. The book of Esdras is filled with Godly wisdom. But wisdom itself is not found in the words written on the page of a book, but rather through you understanding of the words, and spirit of the message it conveys.

Godly wisdom can be found on a piece of paper inside a fortune cookie. But the proud and self righteous might call that devilish end evil. Some would sit in judgement over a word, wether it be of God or not, some try to sit in judgement of God Himself.


As I am reminded of the words of Jesus, he told us to consider the lilies of the field. Why? There is wisdom in considering the lilies of the field.

 

[ezrider]

You can start as many threads as you want in how you understand the resurrection, but you need to also know that many have the right to disagree with what you believe and in disagreements we need to respect and show love for each other in how we understand scripture.

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Would it be fair to stipulate that those who are called to the resurrection of life might understand the resurrection differently than those who are called to the resurrection of judgement (damnation)? Would not each understand the resurrection within the purview of their calling?

 

[gordon777]

Does the book of Esdras sound like the rest of scripture? Most certainly.




That is how it is characterized. I see no reason to dispute it, only an opportunity to contemplate it.

Is God's judgement like a ring? Yes... like as there is no slackness of the last, even so there is no swiftness of the first.

You've already quoted some scripture demonstrating God is longsuffering. Don't think Esdras is saying anything different.

Scripture does not repeat itself, Esdras has followed some of the scripture, and changed it, ti its own agenda.

Gods judgement is not like a ring, God is longsuffering, which explains how God is love. ( not a ring)

Esdras is not saying anything, not different, not new, neither right.

 

[gordon777]

Were you born of your mother's womb?

From the dust of the earth was Adam created. To the dust you shall return.

No we were born of God..


John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[ezrider]

No we were born of God..

So you were never born of your mother womb? You have no mommy? How did you arrive here in the flesh then? Did a stork carry you here?

 

[gordon777]

That is your opinion. The book of Esdras is filled with Godly wisdom. But wisdom itself is not found in the words written on the page of a book, but rather through you understanding of the words, and spirit of the message it conveys.

Godly wisdom can be found on a piece of paper inside a fortune cookie. But the proud and self righteous might call that devilish end evil. Some would sit in judgement over a word, wether it be of God or not, some try to sit in judgement of God Himself.


As I am reminded of the words of Jesus, he told us to consider the lilies of the field. Why? There is wisdom in considering the lilies of the field.

It is the opinion in not including it in the Christian Cannon world outside of Catholicism.

Godly wisdom is what the Jews have and in Islam ( also according to them) yet they are deluded and are even deluded by satan.

Godly wisdom is in the preaching of the cross, only..



1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

 

[gordon777]

So you were never born of your mother womb? You have no mommy? How did you arrive here in the flesh then? Did a stork carry you here?

That which is flesh is flesh, that which is Spirit, is Spirit. We know no man after the flesh any more.


John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

 

[gordon777]

Did a stork carry you here?

Jeremiah 8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the Lord.

 

[for_his_glory]

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Would it be fair to stipulate that those who are called to the resurrection of life might understand the resurrection differently than those who are called to the resurrection of judgement (damnation)? Would not each understand the resurrection within the purview of their calling?

Of course as those who are called to the resurrection of life would understand the the difference between the two types of resurrections as they have been taught the difference, but to those who think that when we physically die their is nothing more than rotting in the ground will be shocked when they stand before the Lord in final judgement.


When you read John 5:19-29 this is speaking about the authority of Christ that God gave Him in judgement. It is Christ that quickens, which means He brings us to eternal life with Him to all that are in the grave that are His own as they will be changed and given new glorified bodies in order to be in the presence of God, 1Corinthians 15:35-58.

I hope this is the answer you were looking for and if not let me know.

 

[ezrider]

Of course as those who are called to the resurrection of life would understand the the difference between the two types of resurrections as they have been taught the difference,

On this we are in agreement. Those who have been called to the resurrection to life would be able to understand the difference between the two resurrection, because for a time, when they were brought up under the schoolmaster, they learned of and abode under the resurrection to judgement, or damnation as it appears in John, or as shame and contempt as written in Daniel. But when Faith has come, and we attain to the resurrection of life as one born again, it would stand to reason then that he should have understanding of both.

but to those who think that when we physically die their is nothing more than rotting in the ground will be shocked when they stand before the Lord in final judgement.

This comment seems to be irrelevant and is not really connected to your comment preceding it. The original question I asked was if you could stipulate that the those called to the resurrection of life might view the resurrection to judgement differently.

As you said, those called to the resurrection to life would understand the difference between the two types of resurrection. The But to juxtapose that expression should rather read that those who are called to the resurrection of judgement (damnation) would not be able to comprehend the difference between the two types of resurrection.

I hope this is the answer you were looking for and if not let me know.

 

[Free]

I am going to agree more so with Terraphim on this matter. It seems that you, as a physical entity in and of the flesh, only tends to look towards a physical return, the return of the Son of Man. Others of us, have watched for the return of the Son of God, the Spirit of Christ.

The only return spoken of in Scripture is Christ's physical return, such as in Acts 1:11. There is no point in watching for a spiritual return, since Christ indwells believers through the Holy Spirit from the moment of conversion.

This is not so. Even Paul wrote on the book of Romans For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

The living and the dead, the just and the unjust.

The living are justified in Christ, and are partake in His Resurrection. The First Resurrection. That one happen nearly two thousand years ago, and people have been enjoined to his resurrection generation after generation since.

The dead are those are not justified by the Faith of Christ, the dead are the unjust because they try to justify their own righteousness through the law and through their works. They happen to not be found in the lamb's book of life, and hope for their own personal resurrection after the coming of Son of Man, and the second death.

You are free to disagree, but then you have to address the biblical evidence of my position, which fairly clearly shows that the unjust are the unrighteous and the just are the righteous, living or dead, found here:

https://christianforums.net/threads...within-the-physical.92379/page-5#post-1699697

I would say God's judgement is the determining factor. Not your judgement, not mine, God's only.

I never said otherwise.

The resurrection of the just and the unjust.

Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


John 5:25
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Now it doesn't seem like Jesus was pointing to a single future event when he say it is coming, AND NOW IS.

Where are "just" and "unjust" mentioned? The verses from Daniel are speaking of the same resurrection mentioned in John 5:28-29--physical resurrection of those who are physically dead, just prior to the Judgement on the final day. John 5:25 is speaking of something else, spiritual death; this is clear from verse 24. The point is that those who listen to what Jesus was saying, and believed, would have eternal life. It is not speaking of resurrection but regeneration, being born again.

41 And I said, Behold, O Lord, yet art thou nigh unto them that be reserved till the end: and what shall they do that have been before me, or we that be now, or they that shall come after us?
42 And he said unto me, I will liken my judgment unto a ring: like as there is no slackness of the last, even so there is no swiftness of the first.
43 So I answered and said, Couldest thou not make those that have been made, and be now, and that are for to come, at once; that thou mightest shew thy judgment the sooner?
44 Then answered he me, and said, The creature may not haste above the maker; neither may the world hold them at once that shall be created therein.
45 And I said, As thou hast said unto thy servant, that thou, which givest life to all, hast given life at once to the creature that thou hast created, and the creature bare it: even so it might now also bear them that now be present at once.
46 And he said unto me, Ask the womb of a woman, and say unto her, If thou bringest forth children, why dost thou it not together, but one after another? pray her therefore to bring forth ten children at once.
47 And I said, She cannot: but must do it by distance of time.
48 Then said he unto me, Even so have I given the womb of the earth to those that be sown in it in their times.


https://www.biblestudytools.com/kjva/2-esdras/5.html

I'm talking about the inspired Scripture, not the non-inspired, non-sciptural Apocrypha.