drunkeness

[GodsGrace]

They have a tavern in Pompeii

There were "half way" houses all over Italy till recently and wine was always served there.

This is because travel was done by horse and it took long periods of time to get places.
There's a half-way house between my hometown and where I live now - just 19 km apart.

Wondering

 

[JohnDB]

Some places in Europe the people welcome you with a shot of homemade brandy from one of their fruit trees.

It ain't mild stuff either.

It will warm your heart.

 

[WIP]

It's all about excess. Nothing wrong with a beer or a shot or a glass of wine. Moderation.

True except for a recovering alcoholic. One drink can put him/her back on the road to destruction.

 

[Classik]

Maybe check out Matthew 26:29?

Literally?

 

[Classik]

This is called derailing the thread.
It's about drunkeness, not about whether or not Jesus ever had a drink of alcohol.
Explain this Classik,
Matthew 11:19; The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But wisdom is proved right by her deeds."

You are convinced He was drinking?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

People were so weak in their faith, Paul had to say something about not drinking in public.
I guess people today have that same weakness.

I'm guessing there are only a few denom's that insist alcohol is categorically forbidden (that is whom Paul is saying would be the weak ones--their weak faith considers it categorically forbidden).

You see, we have the opposite problem in the church today--waaaaaay to many people who are sure alcohol is more than just okay, and who do not keep their alcohol consumption a secret. Which is more important than ever in this time we're living in. Alcohol isn't just a low proof beverage served at every meal as it was in times past. It's worshiped in our western societies. And for the sake of people coming out of the world and getting saved we Christians would do well to shut up about our alcohol consumption for their sakes.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why? If it is a 'personal decision' and it is not a sin, why hide it as if it were?

Did you not read the verse I posted (Romans 14:22 NIV)? Paul says keep it a secret.
The whole chapter is about not doing it, or keeping it a secret, rather than risk causing a weaker brother to stumble. But perhaps we don't really care about that--our rights and liberties and our personal tastes come first?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Would not your statement, " I personally respect a person's decision to not drink alcohol far more than I do a person's decision to drink.", be a judgment against another brother in which you seem to have a feeling of superiority or being more holy?

No, because that's not what I'm addressing.
You see, it's far less harmful (you know, that thing we Christians are supposed to be careful about) to keep that which you are entitled to do a secret out of concern for another weaker brother than it is to boldly proclaim and flaunt your liberty to indulge. I have far, far more respect for the person who chooses to not indulge (or keep it a secret) for the sake of another brother than the person who has an "I don't care attitude" toward a weaker brother and chooses to indulge openly in the name of their Christian liberty.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Drink behind closed doors?
Are you serious?
THIS would mean that I THOUGHT it was a sin and was doing it anyway.
I'll drink my wine right in front of you if you don't mind,
Unless you're a former alcoholic or it disturbs you like smoking disturbs some people.
Drinking and getting drunk is two different things.
Maybe the INTENTION of the drinking is important?
Maybe GOD KNOWS why a person is drinking?
What's to hide?
You'd have a problem having lunch and dinner in this country - that's fer sher.

Wondering

Sounds like someone needs to have a serious, sober read of Romans 14.
Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about.
Unless you want to explain better, it seems you are saying your Christian liberties take precedence over a weaker brother. That's not what Paul says.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sounds like someone needs to have a serious, sober read of Romans 14.
Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about.
Unless you want to explain better, it seems you are saying your Christian liberties take precedence over a weaker brother. That's not what Paul says.

Read my post again regarding alcoholics and others.
Here's the pertinent part:

I'll drink my wine right in front of you if you don't mind,
Unless you're a former alcoholic or it disturbs you like smoking disturbs some people.

Wondering

 

[dirtfarmer]

I'm guessing there are only a few denom's that insist alcohol is categorically forbidden (that is whom Paul is saying would be the weak ones--their weak faith considers it categorically forbidden).

You see, we have the opposite problem in the church today--waaaaaay to many people who are sure alcohol is more than just okay, and who do not keep their alcohol consumption a secret. Which is more important than ever in this time we're living in. Alcohol isn't just a low proof beverage served at every meal as it was in times past. It's worshiped in our western societies. And for the sake of people coming out of the world and getting saved we Christians would do well to shut up about our alcohol consumption for their sakes.

hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

There are many that are weak in faith that don't insist that Alcohol is categorically forbidden. Most believers are weak in their faith as to what day we are to worship. "Sunday" is not more holy than any other day. The weak in faith believe that Sunday is a Sabbath day in which no work is to be done. Have you never heard of "Sunday best" clothes in which we are to wear for worship? Paul stated that there is no day more holy than any other day. We are to be the same every day. We are to "worship" every day.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Read my post again regarding alcoholics and others.
Here's the pertinent part:

I'll drink my wine right in front of you if you don't mind,
Unless you're a former alcoholic or it disturbs you like smoking disturbs some people.

Wondering

Is it wise to find out they are weak in faith AFTER you have already made yourself known as a Christian and are drinking alcohol in front of the person who is weak in faith and thinks you should not be doing that? Of course, that is not wise. Christians need to dump this attitude about their rights and keep their alcohol consumption a secret, unless there is no one around, or those who are around don't know you are a Christian. We simply don't know when we are drinking alcohol in front of someone who's faith does not allow that. To argue the point is to argue against God's love itself. Paul says it is out of love for the weaker brother that we abstain (or keep it a secret):

15For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died." (Romans 14:15 NASB)

Personal rights don't trump the welfare of others. But since alcohol has such a strong pull on people, including Christians, it seems you'll have a battle on your hands when you try to explain what Paul said about that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

There are many that are weak in faith that don't insist that Alcohol is categorically forbidden. Most believers are weak in their faith as to what day we are to worship. "Sunday" is not more holy than any other day. The weak in faith believe that Sunday is a Sabbath day in which no work is to be done. Have you never heard of "Sunday best" clothes in which we are to wear for worship? Paul stated that there is no day more holy than any other day. We are to be the same every day. We are to "worship" every day.

Are you suggesting I only think being weak in faith refers to alcohol?
If so, you are terribly mistaken.
Being weak in faith means your faith does not allow you to do anything that you are convinced is not to be done under any circumstances.

"21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall." (Romans 14:21 NIV)

As I said in an earlier post, there are few denom's that go on record as saying alcohol consumption is categorically forbidden for the believer. The issue for the church is the church's move toward worldly liberties has not been very considerate of others. Alcohol just happens to be a prime example. In our alcohol worshiping society, Christians would do well, in the name of God's love, to keep their consumption a secret and stop boasting about their liberties.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Is it wise to find out they are weak in faith AFTER you have already made yourself known as a Christian and are drinking alcohol in front of the person who is weak in faith and thinks you should not be doing that? Of course, that is not wise. Christians need to dump this attitude about their rights and keep their alcohol consumption a secret, unless there is no one around, or those who are around don't know you are a Christian. We simply don't know when we are drinking alcohol in front of someone who's faith does not allow that. To argue the point is to argue against God's love itself. Paul says it is out of love for the weaker brother that we abstain (or keep it a secret):

15For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died." (Romans 14:15 NASB)

Personal rights don't trump the welfare of others. But since alcohol has such a strong pull on people, including Christians, it seems you'll have a battle on your hands when you try to explain what Paul said about that.

hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

When you and your wife go out to eat do you refrain from entering any establishment that serves alcohol? There are those that are weak in faith that believe that you should not patronize such establishments.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

When you and your wife go out to eat do you refrain from entering any establishment that serves alcohol? There are those that are weak in faith that believe that you should not patronize such establishments.

Refer to my post to wondering. I said it would matter if a Christian whose faith is weak also knew I was a Christian.
And what is that weak Christian doing in an establishment he thinks I should not be in??????

By the way, I'm thinking hard about when and where I was eating in an establishment that served alcohol. I don't gravitate towards that kind of atmosphere.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Are you suggesting I only think being weak in faith refers to alcohol?
If so, you are terribly mistaken.
Being weak in faith means your faith does not allow you to do anything that you are convinced is not to be done under any circumstances.

"21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall." (Romans 14:21 NIV)

As I said in an earlier post, there are few denom's that go on record as saying alcohol consumption is categorically forbidden for the believer. The issue for the church is the church's move toward worldly liberties has not been very considerate of others. Alcohol just happens to be a prime example. In our alcohol worshiping society, Christians would do well, in the name of God's love, to keep their consumption a secret and stop boasting about their liberties.

hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

There are also denomination that believe that wearing of "makeup for women and jewelry for men" is an abomination. Do you still wear rings of gold, lapel pens, or even golden chain bracelets?

 

[LovethroughDove]

Personal rights don't trump the welfare of others. But since alcohol has such a strong pull on people, including Christians, it seems you'll have a battle on your hands when you try to explain what Paul said about that.

I think Paul was promoting living at peace with one another. If a brother/sister in Christ is abstaining from alcohol for some reason, don't boast that you can drink. We all have been given what we've been given in Christ. It's not about the food or drink but what the Spirit allows that individual.

 

[reba]

A whole bunch of me totally agrees with Jethro Bodine .Yet we should/could also recognize some things are cultural ...

 

[GodsGrace]

Is it wise to find out they are weak in faith AFTER you have already made yourself known as a Christian and are drinking alcohol in front of the person who is weak in faith and thinks you should not be doing that? Of course, that is not wise. Christians need to dump this attitude about their rights and keep their alcohol consumption a secret, unless there is no one around, or those who are around don't know you are a Christian. We simply don't know when we are drinking alcohol in front of someone who's faith does not allow that. To argue the point is to argue against God's love itself. Paul says it is out of love for the weaker brother that we abstain (or keep it a secret):

15For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died." (Romans 14:15 NASB)

Personal rights don't trump the welfare of others. But since alcohol has such a strong pull on people, including Christians, it seems you'll have a battle on your hands when you try to explain what Paul said about that.

Hey Jethro,
No battle on my hands.
No worshipping of alcohol. Only drunkards worship alcohol. I don't know anybody else that does. Well, I do know a woman who has to drink to have a good time, but she's the only one. But she's not a drunkard.
I know plenty of people with weak faith - or no faith. Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with alcohol.
I agree with what dirtfarmer said in his post no. 51.

Let's see. I don't know anyone who thinks I should not drink. In fact, if I didn't, they'd think I was really weird. That's how it is here in Italy. BTW, even when we lived in NY we drank wine. My hubby knows a lot about it and my son and brother are experts.

We must be goin' straight to hell!

Everyone I know knows I'm Christian. What must they think of me!!!

I'm sorry Jethro. I don't really know what you're talking about.
They say red wine is good for the heart.
I should drink a lot.
My dr always asks me how much wine I drink.
I tell him, ONE glass, but it's thiiiiiis big.

All kidding aside,
I don't see that it's much of a problem.
Maybe over there it is, but I'm over here...

Wondering

 

[reba]

I kinda get the impression some of us see

Mat_18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mar_9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Luk_17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

while others see

1Co_10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.