[_ Old Earth _] Earths Age

[jay55]

What's a shintoist?l/QUOTE]
A member of the Shinto religion (the traditional religion of Japan) - lots of god's/spirits in nature.

 

[jay55]

Sorry Wondering I really messed up your quote! I guess because I am working on a small phone.

 

[dirtfarmer]

All Moses wrote, as many think he is the author of Genesis, is that God rested from all His creation work on the seventh day and never called it Saturday, just the seventh day as there was no mention of evening. I believe God set the hour of a day by calling it evening and morning, but it was man that called it a 24 hour day as that is how long it takes for the earth to cycle around the sun.

No one can tell how long a span it was from God ending His creation of the heavens and earth and all that was in it to that of creating Adam. Genesis 2:4 speaks about the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created. The generations was before God formed Adam from the dust of the ground and breathed life in him making Adam a living soul. I can only speculate what the generations were since Adam had not been created yet as who can truly know what it means.

Did God call the days of the week by name, no, man named the days just as Adam named all the animals that were created before he was created. Genesis ends roughly three hundred years before Moses was born, but yet many believe Moses wrote the book of Genesis. Adam wasn't born yet before the end of God creating the heavens and the earth and all that was in it so who would have given Adam the account of how long it took God to create everything as that would have surely been handed down through the generations. No one can say how long it took God to create everything before Adam, what kind of animals God created like dinosaurs and such and even if God created other people before Adam. All is speculation as there is no definiteness.

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

Although Genesis doesn't name it's author, there is evidence in other scriptures that leads one to believe that Moses was the author.
John 1:17, " For the law was given by Moses:"
2 Corinthians 3:15, " For even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart."
Acts 15:1, " And certain men which came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. Circumcision was given to Abram in Genesis 17, But it was Moses that wrote about it.

Are not the first five books of the bible called "The Law"

 

[for_his_glory]

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

Although Genesis doesn't name it's author, there is evidence in other scriptures that leads one to believe that Moses was the author.
John 1:17, " For the law was given by Moses:"
2 Corinthians 3:15, " For even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart."
Acts 15:1, " And certain men which came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. Circumcision was given to Abram in Genesis 17, But it was Moses that wrote about it.

Are not the first five books of the bible called "The Law"

I never denied he wasn't and even said: All Moses wrote. Many agree that he was the author.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sorry Wondering I really messed up your quote! I guess because I am working on a small phone.

No problem.
I can't even use them!

 

[for_his_glory]

can we get past the stupid stones and back to the topic, thank you

 

[Jacks Bratt]

This is a good video if you're interested

Excellent video.

This guy is not only intelligent and learned, he is humble and modest. He can say "we don't know" and "we're not sure" and presents a very calculated view of the age of the earth based on the bible and backed by secular historic standards.

Of course, my view and acceptance of this video shows that I am a firm YEC.

I hear people saying, all the time that the Bible is not a science book. I say "really?" What does that matter. It is a history book, that is for sure.

Science is about the observations of men, and women, and what they can learn from these observations.

Has science ever made a mistake? Has science ever been wrong? Has there ever been a scientific observation that has totally erased or disproven scientific believes that were previously considered as solid facts? .... Of course it has and will be in the future.

I truly believe that many Christians would stand firm on the Genesis account of six literal days of creation..... IF... their salvation depended on it.

Think about it... They believe Christ walked on water.. totally unscientific, not testable, not observable and absolutely not repeatable.
They believed that He turned water to wine, stopped the rain and wind, healed a girl from miles away, brought Lazarus back from being dead for three days, fed over 5000 people with two fish and five buns..... but ignore the fact that Christ stated that the earth was created in six days.


Do they believe that God lacked the ability to do what Genesis says? I doubt it. Do they believe that the Bible has lies in it? I hope not

Yet they will rely on the "observations of men" over the Word of God, even when there is no reason to doubt God capability in that regard.

I could understand this, if they were non Christians. But, as Christians that is illogical.

God did not need more than six literal days... However, atheistic evolution demands this vast time frame in order to fit their agenda.


Let God be true and every man a liar.

 

[Jacks Bratt]

Unfortunately, carbon dating only works to determine the age of substances that were once living.

I have a thermometer... I use it to test the temperature of meat so that I know when it has reached a safe internal temperature.
However, all my meat was ending up overcooked.

I stuck the thermometer into a pot of boiling water to check it out... it read 170 degrees.....

The thermometer was off. It needed calibration in order to be accurate...

So, just what standard do they use to calculate and measure rocks and organic material that is supposed to be millions of years old?

To be "scientific", your instrument must be calibrated to a known source.... Carbon dating is a theory and has errors and no standard to calibrate it.

Let God be true and every man a liar.

 

[for_his_glory]

I truly believe that many Christians would stand firm on the Genesis account of six literal days of creation..... IF... their salvation depended on it.

It's a good thing our salvation does not depend on it.

Genesis gives us a clue that leads me to believe that it was not a literal six day 24 hour a day timeline. When you read in the Genesis account Moses said that it was from evening to morning that was a day. Other words sunset to sunrise, which is not 24 hours.

I believe each day from evening to morning are only symbolic of a certain length of time it took God to create everything before He created man. God's numbering is not the same as ours as we see in these scriptures Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

 

[KevinK]

I have a thermometer... I use it to test the temperature of meat so that I know when it has reached a safe internal temperature.
However, all my meat was ending up overcooked.

I stuck the thermometer into a pot of boiling water to check it out... it read 170 degrees.....

The thermometer was off. It needed calibration in order to be accurate...

So, just what standard do they use to calculate and measure rocks and organic material that is supposed to be millions of years old?

To be "scientific", your instrument must be calibrated to a known source.... Carbon dating is a theory and has errors and no standard to calibrate it.

Let God be true and every man a liar.

I'm not an expert in this, just pointing out some general relevant points to the topic. As I said, rocks can not be carbon-dated. Organic material can, but only back around 50,000 years. The accuracy depends on how the sample is tested, but is around 80 years.

The standard is the ratio of cabon isotopes 12 and 14. This is a very well known scalar. The ratio is held constant in the environment due to conversion of 12 to 14 (radiocarbon) in the atmosphere by cosmic rays. When a plant or animal dies, it stops exchanging with the environment and the ratio becomes a factor of normal radioactive decay. Beyond around 50,000 years, most of the carbon is converted and the ratio becomes too small to be of value.

 

[Free]

Do they believe that God lacked the ability to do what Genesis says? I doubt it. Do they believe that the Bible has lies in it? I hope not

Yet they will rely on the "observations of men" over the Word of God, even when there is no reason to doubt God capability in that regard.

I could understand this, if they were non Christians. But, as Christians that is illogical.

God did not need more than six literal days... However, atheistic evolution demands this vast time frame in order to fit their agenda.


Let God be true and every man a liar.

All that last line really means is: Let your interpretation of what you think God says be true and every man a liar.

 

[Jim Parker]

To be "scientific", your instrument must be calibrated to a known source.... Carbon dating is a theory and has errors and no standard to calibrate it.

That is false.
Carbon-14 has a half life of 5740 years. That is a verifiable fact, not a theory.
It does have errors.
So does Biblical interpretation when based on an unverifiable theory of a 6000 year old earth.

 

[dirtfarmer]

That is false.
Carbon-14 has a half life of 5740 years. That is a verifiable fact, not a theory.
It does have errors.
So does Biblical interpretation when based on an unverifiable theory of a 6000 year old earth.

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

As I understand Carbon14 is man's theory, but is God limited to man's theories as to what he can do? Jesus told the Pharisees they could believe Moses writings. So, if Moses writings are verified to be true by Jesus Christ, then who am I to question or doubt what Moses wrote.
Exodus 20:11 " For in six days the LORD made the heaven and the earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: "

 

[Jacks Bratt]

All that last line really means is: Let your interpretation of what you think God says be true and every man a liar.

Well, if everyone went around with their own interpretations... where would Christianity be?

The only time that I find that Christians want to use their own interpretations is when it conflicts with the assumptions of some person in a white lab coat.
This is why we, Christians, are all pretty solid on how we interpret Christ's death, burial and resurrection...

 

[Jacks Bratt]

That is false.
Carbon-14 has a half life of 5740 years. That is a verifiable fact, not a theory.
It does have errors.
So does Biblical interpretation when based on an unverifiable theory of a 6000 year old earth.

So, what do you use to calibrate this instrument? Every analytical instrument uses physical properties in order to measure a value.

Whether it is an Atomic Absorbtion spectrophotometer. Gas Chromatograph, Mass Spectrometer, pH meter or any other....it needs to be calibrated to a standard or buffer in order to assure it's accuracy....

 

[Jacks Bratt]

I'm not an expert in this, just pointing out some general relevant points to the topic. As I said, rocks can not be carbon-dated. Organic material can, but only back around 50,000 years. The accuracy depends on how the sample is tested, but is around 80 years.

The standard is the ratio of cabon isotopes 12 and 14. This is a very well known scalar. The ratio is held constant in the environment due to conversion of 12 to 14 (radiocarbon) in the atmosphere by cosmic rays. When a plant or animal dies, it stops exchanging with the environment and the ratio becomes a factor of normal radioactive decay. Beyond around 50,000 years, most of the carbon is converted and the ratio becomes too small to be of value.

This may be true. However, man has no concept of what happened in the previous years that may have altered this rate of decay...

In short... it is "theoretical" and how often do we find that men err.

How does that go? Oh Ya......

Romans 1:22 King James Version (KJV)

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


and:

1 Corinthians 1:27 King James Version (KJV)

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

and:

1 Corinthians 1:19-21 King James Version (KJV)

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[brujaq]

Well, if everyone went around with their own interpretations... where would Christianity be?

The only time that I find that Christians want to use their own interpretations is when it conflicts with the assumptions of some person in a white lab coat.
This is why we, Christians, are all pretty solid on how we interpret Christ's death, burial and resurrection...

You have no problem friend .. The devil says ''did God really say'' and Jesus says ''it is written''

 

[brujaq]

So, what do you use to calibrate this instrument? Every analytical instrument uses physical properties in order to measure a value.

Whether it is an Atomic Absorbtion spectrophotometer. Gas Chromatograph, Mass Spectrometer, pH meter or any other....it needs to be calibrated to a standard or buffer in order to assure it's accuracy....

I'll go farther than that .. imo carbon dating can detect carbon, that's all .. When a carbon dating test shows a fresh hatched snail to be a couple thousand years old then the show is over on any reliability as far as I'm concerned

 

[KevinK]

I'll go farther than that .. imo carbon dating can detect carbon, that's all .. When a carbon dating test shows a fresh hatched snail to be a couple thousand years old then the show is over on any reliability as far as I'm concerned

I'm not sure where you got that, but one botched test wouldn't invalidate an entire methodology.

Carbon-dating is one of the most elegant test protocols around. It was pretty good using the old methodology, simply measuring the amount of radioactivity in a sample. But now they use mass spectrometry, and it's pretty cool how it works.

Basically, they electrically charge the test sample, then accelerate it obliquely across a magnetic field. Since the two isotopes have different atomic masses, they wind up in two different groups on a detection screen. This means you are directly measuring the ratio of C14 to C12. You don't even need to do a complicated calculation. It doesn't get more elegant than this!

 

[jasonc]

The shabbat is based on the creation,week,and day of rest.