End Times Close?

[reba]

Why when this is the type of pathetic insults which come from those who argue against the simple biblical fact that Israel will be saved in the end.. ?

ET I agree all Israel will be saved.....

 

[Sinthesis]

All Israel will be saved by definition. The question is who belongs to Israel? Also, what does it mean to be saved? Are end times close? To whom? And how do you measure close?

 

[Eventide]

Amen brother. and what a glorius day that will be.

I agree, and Amen back to you brother ! ...and I don't know about other Christians.. but I can clearly see that DAY approaching.

 

[Eventide]

Scofield

This is it Reba.. ? It's almost too funny..

As mentioned, I haven't read anything from Scofield.. and I'm not sure of the surrounding context here.. although the statement alone is fine imo... because the gospel absolutely DID go to the JEW FIRST.. and after their continued rejection, they were cut off from the root and their house has been left desolate..

That was foretold in the OT.. so it has absolutely nothing to do with plan B.. but rather the foreknowledge of God.

The nation of Israel today remains blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.. and many in Christendom continue to ignore that simple biblical truth.. and this is where amillennialism stems from.. ignoring the mystery pertaining to Israel's temporary blindness.

 

[Eventide]

All Israel will be saved by definition. The question is who belongs to Israel? Also, what does it mean to be saved? Are end times close? To whom? And how do you measure close?

Any student of the scriptures should be able to see that Israel refers to the twelve sons of JACOB.. and there are seemingly countless OT patriarchs mentioned in the OT and even outlined in part for us in the NT.. ie, Hebrews 11..

All of these members are of the ISRAEL OF GOD.. which is an EARTHLY ENTITY with earthly ordinances..

If you don't know what it means to be saved then sorry, I'm not going into that except to say that Israel will be saved in exactly the way that the church of God is saved.. by GRACE through FAITH.

As far as the closeness of it.. it's absolutely vital to KNOW that end time events all surround the nation of ISRAEL.. and if you or any other believer can't see the current state of affairs in this world.. even Countries threatening to wipe that nation off of the map.. then imo your head is buried in the sands of willful ignorance.

 

[smaller]

All Israel will be saved by definition. The question is who belongs to Israel? Also, what does it mean to be saved? Are end times close? To whom? And how do you measure close?

At the time Paul penned these words he knew all of Israel shall be saved. And included even those Israelites who were enemies of the Gospel.

This matter is one of the mysteries of faith:

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.


There is much to be seen in Romans 11 on this particular matter.


s

 

[Eventide]

As a woman with child...

The bible is certainly amazing to say the least.. and even the order of books is something which we can glean truth from..

Did you ever notice that after all of Paul's letters to the church of God.. that the bible comes to a close in an entirely JEWISH context...

After Paul's letters we have Hebrews.. and we see the Apostles to the circumcision.. Peter, James, and John closing the NT..

Coincidence..? Not imo.. just another testimony to the fact that after the Lord is finished building His church, that the focus will all be once again centered upon the nation of Israel.

 

[Eventide]

earthly things and heavenly things...

The Apostle Paul writes in a living and powerful way.. some of the most remarkable things to come are summed up in absolutely stunning clarity.. and yet still hidden so to speak...

That the DAY OF THE LORD shall come as witnessed by TWO very important things.. the most important things which the Spirit of Christ wants us to know..

1. As a THIEF IN THE NIGHT...

AND...

2. As travail upon a WOMAN WITH CHILD...

What might ye think that these things are ?

IMO the two most important things to God are the church of God and the Israel of God... and we're told that the first shall be last and that the last shall be first..

I believe that the reference to a thief in the night speaks to the Lord coming for His church, a heavenly entity which is also His wife to be.. and that the woman with child speaks of the Israel of God, an earthly entity which will be born again in that day and be protected during the great tribulation, or time of JACOB's trouble.

One place where this is shown to us in the parables of Matthew 13.. where it speaks of the merchant man selling all that he had for TWO distinct things.. one being the treasure in the field which he hid.. and the other being the pearl of great price taken from the sea.. of nations..

The merchant man can be none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.

And in the end all things shall be gathered together in one.. in Him.. things which are in heaven... the church of God... and things on earth.. the Israel of God..

 

[jasoncran]

what is the percentage of jews that even read or know the tanach? i have stumped some jews with my limited knowledge of the tanach.

 

[jasoncran]

what is the percentage of jews that even read or know the tanach? i have stumped some jews with my limited knowledge of the tanach.

modern isreal was founded athiestic jews not practicing jews.

 

[reba]

This is it Reba.. ? It's almost too funny..

As mentioned, I haven't read anything from Scofield.. and I'm not sure of the surrounding context here.. although the statement alone is fine imo... because the gospel absolutely DID go to the JEW FIRST.. and after their continued rejection, they were cut off from the root and their house has been left desolate..

That was foretold in the OT.. so it has absolutely nothing to do with plan B.. but rather the foreknowledge of God.

The nation of Israel today remains blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.. and many in Christendom continue to ignore that simple biblical truth.. and this is where amillennialism stems from.. ignoring the mystery pertaining to Israel's temporary blindness.

There is a lot more ET.

SCofield
When Christ appeared to the Jewish people, the next thing in the order of revelation as it then stood, should have been the setting up of the Davidic kingdom.

now eventide.....

As mentioned, I haven't read anything from Scofield.. and I'm not sure of the surrounding context here.. although the statement alone is fine imo... because the gospel absolutely DID go to the JEW FIRST.. and after their continued rejection, they were cut off from the root and their house has been left desolate..

Do you see how the two quotes are not a match? Absolutly the Gospel went to the Jews first

 

[jasoncran]

on amillemianism.

justim martyr would have something to say as he wasnt amil but was a disciple of polycarp, and that within less then 50 years of john's the apostles death and he mentions this.

CHAPTER LXXX -- THE OPINION OF JUSTIN WITH REGARD TO THE REIGN OF A THOUSAND YEARS. SEVERAL CATHOLICS REJECT IT.
And Trypho to this replied, "I remarked to you sir, that you are very anxious to be safe in all respects, since you cling to the Scriptures. But tell me, do you really admit that this place, Jerusalem, shall be rebuilt; and do you expect your people to be gathered together, and made joyful with Christ and the patriarchs, and the prophets, both the men of our nation, and other proselytes who joined them before your Christ came? or have you given way, and admitted this in order to have the appearance of worsting us in the controversies?" Then I answered, "I am not so miserable a fellow, Trypho, as to say one thing and think another. I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion, and[believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true CHRISTIANS, think OTHERWISE. Moreover, I pointed out to you that some who are called Christians, but are godless, impious heretics, teach doctrines that are in every way blasphemous, atheistical, and foolish. But that you may know that I do not say this before you alone, I shall draw up a statement, so far as I can, of all the arguments which have passed between us; in which I shall record myself as admitting the very same things which I admit to you. For I choose to follow not men or men's doctrines, but God and the doctrines[delivered] by Him. For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this[truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians, even as one, if he would rightly consider it, would not admit that the Sadducees, or similar sects of Genist , Meristae,Gelilaeans, Hellenists, Pharisees, Baptists, are Jews(do not hear me impatiently when I tell you what I think), but are[only] called Jews and children of Abraham, worshipping God with the lips, as God Himself declared, but the heart was far from Him. But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

Christian apologist, born at Flavia Neapolis, about A.D. 100, converted to Christianity about A.D. 130, taught and defended the Christian religion in Asia Minor and at Rome, where he suffered martyrdom about the year 165. Two "Apologies" bearing his name and his "Dialogue with the Jew Tryphon" have come down to us. Leo XIII had a Mass and an Office composed in his honour and set his feast for 14 April.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08580c.htm

how it could hatred of the jews slip in under johns nose or when the bible wasnt even put together then?there were some amilliniest then.

martyr was a second century believer. apperently you are wrong.

 

[reba]

Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Scofield...The gathering of the tares into bundles for burning does not imply immediate judgment. At the end of this age (Mt 13:40) the tares are set apart for burning, but first the wheat is gathered into the barn. Jn 14:3 1Th 4:14-17.

The Scofield Bibles were the ones around home... My most cherished Bible is a Scofield.

Just wish i had the 1909 edition,

 

[Eventide]

There is a lot more ET.

now eventide.....

Do you see how the two quotes are not a match? Absolutly the Gospel went to the Jews first

No I don't Reba.. and it's probably because I don't believe in the fatalistic (or deterministic) type approach to the scriptures.. iow, simply because God foreknew that Israel would reject Him and that the gospel would go to the Gentiles... that in no way demands that Israel could not have accepted the gospel when it was presented to them..

So imo the gospel being given to ISRAEL first is absolutely legitimate.. and once again, the foreknowledge of God does not determine that they could not receive the gospel.

 

[Hammer]

Re: As a woman with child...

The bible is certainly amazing to say the least.. and even the order of books is something which we can glean truth from..

Did you ever notice that after all of Paul's letters to the church of God.. that the bible comes to a close in an entirely JEWISH context...

After Paul's letters we have Hebrews.. and we see the Apostles to the circumcision.. Peter, James, and John closing the NT..

Coincidence..? Not imo.. just another testimony to the fact that after the Lord is finished building His church, that the focus will all be once again centered upon the nation of Israel.

:biglol There's no secret message in the book order for Zionists. What's the secret message in Luke being tucked between Mark and John?

Peter, James, and John (all using Greek names and writing in Greek, if you want to talk about context) are after Paul because Paul wrote first, and wrote more than them.

The Church is Israel.

 

[smaller]

Re: As a woman with child...

The bible is certainly amazing to say the least.. and even the order of books is something which we can glean truth from..

Hey, brilliant sighting. There is MUCH significance even in the notations of 1st and 2nd writings, quite intentional by the Spirit, and perhaps even unknown by some of the assemblers of the bodies of text.

Did you ever notice that after all of Paul's letters to the church of God.. that the bible comes to a close in an entirely JEWISH context...

The Word of God was always intentional ONLY to Israel.

The very meaning of the term itself is God Prevails.

Those who understand God Himself prevailing IN THEM are in fact part of Israel and are in fact 'joined' to Israel. The Israel of God.

Believers today are still called out of the wicked world as HEBREW 'wanderers' no differently than Abram to Abraham. The old man to the new, renamed man.

s

 

[Eventide]

Re: As a woman with child...

:biglol The Church is Israel.

I would lol at this because there is not a single verse in the bible which teaches that the church of God (a heavenly entity) is the Israel of God.. an earthly entity.

Cling to your amillennialism if you must.. and imo there is not a bigger LOL in all doctrine than that..

So yes, thanks for the laugh.

 

[smaller]

Re: As a woman with child...

I would lol at this because there is not a single verse in the bible which teaches that the church of God (a heavenly entity) is the Israel of God.. an earthly entity.

Cling to your amillennialism if you must.. and imo there is not a bigger LOL in all doctrine than that..

So yes, thanks for the laugh.

awww, just when I thought you saw something!

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly

 

[Eventide]

Re: As a woman with child...

Hey, brilliant sighting. There is MUCH significance even in the notations of 1st and 2nd writings, quite intentional by the Spirit, and perhaps even unknown by some of the assemblers of the bodies of text.

I would agree.

The Word of God was always intentional ONLY to Israel.

This I would have to disagree with simply because Paul's letters are written to the church of God, not to Israel.

The very meaning of the term itself is God Prevails.

Those who understand God Himself prevailing IN THEM are in fact part of Israel and are in fact 'joined' to Israel. The Israel of God.

Again I must disagree.. I am not an Israelite.. I'm a Gentile.. we're not joined to Israel, as they have been cut off from the ROOT.. we are IN CHRIST.. and Israel shall be in Christ in the end.

Believers today are still called out of the wicked world as HEBREW 'wanderers' no differently than Abram to Abraham. The old man to the new, renamed man.

s

In Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile.. but one new man from the two. And yet we're to give none offense.. neither to the Jews, or the Gentiles, or the church of God.

 

[Eventide]

Re: As a woman with child...

awww, just when I thought you saw something!

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly

I always get a kick out of this verse being used to show that CHRISTIANS are JEWS... because we're not.. in Christ there is NEITHER Jew or Gentile..

This is speaking of Jews.. it's right there in the context.. A JEW is one inwardly..