Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Tired of all the political strife and infighting?
Find out how Christians are supposed to act in the following study
https://christianforums.net/threads/charismatic-bible-studies-1-peter-2-11-17.109823/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
End Times Close?
- Thread starter Ramaweh
- Start date
Eventide
Member
Re: As a woman with child...
Once again I must disagree.. Israel is an earthly entity with many earthly ordinances.. derived from the TWELVE sons of JACOB.
If you're an Israelite then sure.. although we're not.. we're Christians.. IN CHRIST, supported by the ROOT and the OFFSPRING of David.. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself.
Israel has been CUT OFF from the root and their house has been left desolate. But they shall be GRAFTED in again just as Paul says that they will.. when they shall call upon the name of the Lord and be saved in that DAY.. the Day of the LORD, the DAY of Jesus Christ.
Once again I must disagree.. Israel is an earthly entity with many earthly ordinances.. derived from the TWELVE sons of JACOB.
If you're an Israelite then sure.. although we're not.. we're Christians.. IN CHRIST, supported by the ROOT and the OFFSPRING of David.. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself.
Israel has been CUT OFF from the root and their house has been left desolate. But they shall be GRAFTED in again just as Paul says that they will.. when they shall call upon the name of the Lord and be saved in that DAY.. the Day of the LORD, the DAY of Jesus Christ.
smaller
Member
Re: As a woman with child...
There is Israel of the flesh and there is The Israel of God.
They are two entirely different matters, spiritually speaking.
God called out natural men to be spiritual men. That's His Way.
Seriously it has nothing to do with 'genetics.'
There will only be ISRAELITES in heaven. Those in whom God Himself has prevailed.
s
There is Israel of the flesh and there is The Israel of God.
They are two entirely different matters, spiritually speaking.
God called out natural men to be spiritual men. That's His Way.
Seriously it has nothing to do with 'genetics.'
There will only be ISRAELITES in heaven. Those in whom God Himself has prevailed.
s
Eventide
Member
smaller
Member
Re: As a woman with child...
There is only one tribe, Israel. It's a Spiritual Tribe. All believers and all christians do in fact begin in the house of JACOB.
How is this so you may ask? Jacob came before the son of promise, Isaac, as what? A DECEIVER.
This is also how we come before Jesus, as SINNERS. Deceivers even.
And when we do we are being HONEST before our Father. And He puts upon those who come this way BLESSING ABUNDANT.
So there is your spiritual house. The house of Jacob. The very first house that all enter, even if they do not perceive it that way.
And it is a GOOD HOUSE to be in because this then is the WAY our FATHER, GOD sees Jacob and how he also sees ISRAEL. These are the SAME EYES OF GOD that you should desire yourself to be seen through:
Numbers 23:21
He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.
These are in fact The Eyes of Grace upon everyone whom God has forgiven of their DECEPTIONs when they come before Him and STOP LYING about the fact that they ARE a deceiver in their SINS.
God will then show us division from our enemies (sin which is in fact of the devil) and domination over same in our own lives.
The heavenly house is supported by every jot and tittle that went on with EVERY tribe therein in the natural, but within every stroke of the pen of the Old Testament and the New, there are spiritual matters that apply to all of us of the house.
It's quite fascinating, actually. But some insist on seeing it through other lenses. And that's OK with me too. I quite thoroughly enjoy theology in general, and have done so from numerous perspectives.
On the subject of end times/eschatology, there is probably not a view that I have not personally set my shoes in. There is some legitimacy in every view.
And there are some views that will never be handed out because believers tend to get locked up and lost in their own subjective and limited sights and more commonly they do not understand the APPROACH OF JACOB that God has blessed PRIOR. Even though Jacob was a DECEIVER he was in fact A TRUTH TELLER before his father in that approach. This is quite a narrow door of understanding for many believers to see or understand, but I take it as a fact from the tracks laid down in understanding allegories and parables, spiritual associations and from personal experience in life and studies.
I'm sure you know believers who can no longer fellowship with other believers because they went into the book of Revelations, came out with a particular slant (their personal revelation) that if not agreed with in total, then you or I or any other are doomed to hell forever. I've seen this a lot. It can get them into a pretty strange place.
I try not to read from the seat of detriment to other believers. It's much more pleasant.
Whatever any believer sees, it is in my eyes where God has placed them. Some will see better or should I say 'more beneficially' upon others, and when they do, God will in fact show them MORE.
That's how He Still Works. It is hard to put off our own subjective blinders. Very hard.
Luke 8:18
Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.
Nothing I understand about 'end times' or 'Israel' is to any believers detriment no matter what 'they' have been led to see. There is in fact a LOT to see. More than I can handle.
s
Which of the twelve tribes might you be from ?
There is only one tribe, Israel. It's a Spiritual Tribe. All believers and all christians do in fact begin in the house of JACOB.
How is this so you may ask? Jacob came before the son of promise, Isaac, as what? A DECEIVER.
This is also how we come before Jesus, as SINNERS. Deceivers even.
And when we do we are being HONEST before our Father. And He puts upon those who come this way BLESSING ABUNDANT.
So there is your spiritual house. The house of Jacob. The very first house that all enter, even if they do not perceive it that way.
And it is a GOOD HOUSE to be in because this then is the WAY our FATHER, GOD sees Jacob and how he also sees ISRAEL. These are the SAME EYES OF GOD that you should desire yourself to be seen through:
Numbers 23:21
He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.
These are in fact The Eyes of Grace upon everyone whom God has forgiven of their DECEPTIONs when they come before Him and STOP LYING about the fact that they ARE a deceiver in their SINS.
God will then show us division from our enemies (sin which is in fact of the devil) and domination over same in our own lives.
The heavenly house is supported by every jot and tittle that went on with EVERY tribe therein in the natural, but within every stroke of the pen of the Old Testament and the New, there are spiritual matters that apply to all of us of the house.
It's quite fascinating, actually. But some insist on seeing it through other lenses. And that's OK with me too. I quite thoroughly enjoy theology in general, and have done so from numerous perspectives.
On the subject of end times/eschatology, there is probably not a view that I have not personally set my shoes in. There is some legitimacy in every view.
And there are some views that will never be handed out because believers tend to get locked up and lost in their own subjective and limited sights and more commonly they do not understand the APPROACH OF JACOB that God has blessed PRIOR. Even though Jacob was a DECEIVER he was in fact A TRUTH TELLER before his father in that approach. This is quite a narrow door of understanding for many believers to see or understand, but I take it as a fact from the tracks laid down in understanding allegories and parables, spiritual associations and from personal experience in life and studies.
I'm sure you know believers who can no longer fellowship with other believers because they went into the book of Revelations, came out with a particular slant (their personal revelation) that if not agreed with in total, then you or I or any other are doomed to hell forever. I've seen this a lot. It can get them into a pretty strange place.
I try not to read from the seat of detriment to other believers. It's much more pleasant.
Whatever any believer sees, it is in my eyes where God has placed them. Some will see better or should I say 'more beneficially' upon others, and when they do, God will in fact show them MORE.
That's how He Still Works. It is hard to put off our own subjective blinders. Very hard.
Luke 8:18
Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.
Nothing I understand about 'end times' or 'Israel' is to any believers detriment no matter what 'they' have been led to see. There is in fact a LOT to see. More than I can handle.
s
Eventide
Member
in the blink of an eye...
Revelation chapter 7 pertains to the things which shall be hereafter.. things which shall come after the things which are..
There we read clearly that there will be 144000 ISRAELITES sealed, having the seal of God in their foreheads.. 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes listed..
I'm sorry, but I can't spiritualize more than half of the holy scriptures away as if they're not actually saying what they are saying in plain english so to speak.
Matthew's gospel tells us that in the regeneration that His twelve Apostles will sit upon twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.. and that is intimately connected to His coming..
Christ coming again is not spiritual.. it's literal.. the resurrection of the dead is not some spiritual thing which born again believers have now... WE HOPE for the manifestation of the sons of God, to wit, the REDEMPTION of our bodies..
It's the saddest thing in the world to see people spiritualizing all of this away and being led to believe that these things have already been realized in the believer.. because we have right now the EARNEST of our inheritance in Him and when He comes He shall CHANGE these vile bodies of ours and they shall be fashioned like unto His glorious body..
Even in the blink of an eye.
Revelation chapter 7 pertains to the things which shall be hereafter.. things which shall come after the things which are..
There we read clearly that there will be 144000 ISRAELITES sealed, having the seal of God in their foreheads.. 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes listed..
I'm sorry, but I can't spiritualize more than half of the holy scriptures away as if they're not actually saying what they are saying in plain english so to speak.
Matthew's gospel tells us that in the regeneration that His twelve Apostles will sit upon twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.. and that is intimately connected to His coming..
Christ coming again is not spiritual.. it's literal.. the resurrection of the dead is not some spiritual thing which born again believers have now... WE HOPE for the manifestation of the sons of God, to wit, the REDEMPTION of our bodies..
It's the saddest thing in the world to see people spiritualizing all of this away and being led to believe that these things have already been realized in the believer.. because we have right now the EARNEST of our inheritance in Him and when He comes He shall CHANGE these vile bodies of ours and they shall be fashioned like unto His glorious body..
Even in the blink of an eye.
smaller
Member
Re: in the blink of an eye...
There is fleshly, natural understandings and there are spiritual understandings.
Both are laid out before everyone. Some will naturally be led into natural sight and that is, uh, natural.
I have not been led that way, to see. That way does not interest me.
The 24 Elders of Heaven are the 12 from the Old and the 12 from the New. This is a very specific matter. These are representative of the natural to spiritual order as well. This is The Way of God.
The Spiritual Order will reign over the natural order. But the natural order is the initial way that communication lines are laid down from God to us.
When God in Christ comes in full, the arrival will in fact be UNseen.
Why? Because it will be INTERNAL. Happy to show you how that is, but whatever. There are other places for you to walk before this understanding would come.
2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
We as a body of believers do not presently perceive this matter, but at some point in time as we perceive it we will all come to this understanding.
The only reason we do not understand it NOW is because there are in fact ENEMIES in the HOUSE.
On the day the enemies are destroyed, that GREAT DAY OF WRATH, we will all see PERFECTLY and we will understand TOGETHER and there will be GREAT PEACE.
God is a Spirit. That is also what we are when we are therein joined.
1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
This is the AVENUE that all believers will join to IN THEE END. It is the ONLY Avenue that God will accept and it is only THE AVENUE that God in us can bring about.
Man works and understandings are and will be made totally irrelevant and will in fact be destroyed in the end. The walls will tumble so to speak.
s
There is fleshly, natural understandings and there are spiritual understandings.
Both are laid out before everyone. Some will naturally be led into natural sight and that is, uh, natural.
I have not been led that way, to see. That way does not interest me.
The 24 Elders of Heaven are the 12 from the Old and the 12 from the New. This is a very specific matter. These are representative of the natural to spiritual order as well. This is The Way of God.
The Spiritual Order will reign over the natural order. But the natural order is the initial way that communication lines are laid down from God to us.
When God in Christ comes in full, the arrival will in fact be UNseen.
Why? Because it will be INTERNAL. Happy to show you how that is, but whatever. There are other places for you to walk before this understanding would come.
2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
We as a body of believers do not presently perceive this matter, but at some point in time as we perceive it we will all come to this understanding.
The only reason we do not understand it NOW is because there are in fact ENEMIES in the HOUSE.
On the day the enemies are destroyed, that GREAT DAY OF WRATH, we will all see PERFECTLY and we will understand TOGETHER and there will be GREAT PEACE.
God is a Spirit. That is also what we are when we are therein joined.
1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
This is the AVENUE that all believers will join to IN THEE END. It is the ONLY Avenue that God will accept and it is only THE AVENUE that God in us can bring about.
Man works and understandings are and will be made totally irrelevant and will in fact be destroyed in the end. The walls will tumble so to speak.
s
Eventide
Member
Re: in the blink of an eye...
Then by all means consider yourself spiritually enlighted in these things..
I'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Then by all means consider yourself spiritually enlighted in these things..
I'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.
smaller
Member
Re: in the blink of an eye...
Like I said, whatever I see is not to your detriment. Nor do I expect others to see the same way.
Luke 17:20
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said,
The kingdom of God cometh not with observation
s
Like I said, whatever I see is not to your detriment. Nor do I expect others to see the same way.
Luke 17:20
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said,
The kingdom of God cometh not with observation
s
There is a lot more ET.
SCofield
When Christ appeared to the Jewish people, the next thing in the order of revelation as it then stood, should have been the setting up of the Davidic kingdom.
now eventide.....
As mentioned, I haven't read anything from Scofield.. and I'm not sure of the surrounding context here.. although the statement alone is fine imo... because the gospel absolutely DID go to the JEW FIRST.. and after their continued rejection, they were cut off from the root and their house has been left desolate..
Do you see how the two quotes are not a match? Absolutly the Gospel went to the Jews first
Scofield is not talking about the gospel you correctly are .
Eventide
Member
Reba,
I obviously can't speak for Scofield.. and regardless of that.. there is absolutely nothing which you have stated from him which says that the gospel going to the Gentiles was plan B.
I'm sure you could find all kinds of ridiculous claims from many of your amillennial preachers who rail dishonestly against dispensational teaching.
I obviously can't speak for Scofield.. and regardless of that.. there is absolutely nothing which you have stated from him which says that the gospel going to the Gentiles was plan B.
I'm sure you could find all kinds of ridiculous claims from many of your amillennial preachers who rail dishonestly against dispensational teaching.
jasoncran
Member
so why were there godly amils in the days of justin martyr? show me any pretrib idea from the second century.
heres what martyr believed.
no removal there of the church, just a reign with christ on the earth, that is even closer to what the jews of today teach. real close. i can even post the facts on that. the temple built by the messiah.
Scofield .....
compare Scofield's notes taken directly from a Scofield Bible to what the Bible says:
Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
My thoughts come from reading/growing up on Scofield notes and reading Scripture.
compare Scofield's notes taken directly from a Scofield Bible to what the Bible says:
Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
My thoughts come from reading/growing up on Scofield notes and reading Scripture.
jasoncran
Member
sheesh. i can see why. like i said when one gets into the tanach and the sages one can see why the modern futurist is so far off.
E
elijah23
Guest
I have no feeling that the end times are close. Still, it is good to be prepared as if the end times are just one second away. It won't be long before we all pass on to the next life - time races by.
Eventide
Member
Thy KINGDOM come and Thy will be done.. on EARTH as it is in Heaven...
Make absolutely no mistake about it brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ..
That Glorified and resurrected MAN... That KING of all kings is coming to this earth... right here folks.. and HE is going to sit upon the Throne of His Glory in the city of the great KING... and He is going to be King over ALL OF IT in that Day.. the Day of Jesus Christ..
His resurrected Apostles, Peter, James, John.. all of them.. will also sit upon twelve thrones.. judging the twelve tribes of ISRAEL.. because it is all tied to His COMING AGAIN.. in power and great glory.. even to destroy the man of sin, the BEAST of Revelation.. who shall also rule over the entire EARTH for a very short time..
Read Revelation 4-20 in its proper context (ie, the things which shall be hereafter) and see for yourself that this is indeed the DAY OF THE LORD.. which is also told of in miraculous detail throughout the OT..
Now the church of God imo has a much higher calling if I can say that reverently.. our citizenship is in HEAVEN.. not on earth.. and we're to set our affections on the things which are above.. and no doubt the most staggering thing (to say the least) is that the church of God is the BRIDE of our LORD JESUS CHRIST..
We can't even begin to understand the depths of that..
And yet it's going to happen.. in that DAY.. in the Day of the Lord.. the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
To Christ alone be the Glory.
Make absolutely no mistake about it brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ..
That Glorified and resurrected MAN... That KING of all kings is coming to this earth... right here folks.. and HE is going to sit upon the Throne of His Glory in the city of the great KING... and He is going to be King over ALL OF IT in that Day.. the Day of Jesus Christ..
His resurrected Apostles, Peter, James, John.. all of them.. will also sit upon twelve thrones.. judging the twelve tribes of ISRAEL.. because it is all tied to His COMING AGAIN.. in power and great glory.. even to destroy the man of sin, the BEAST of Revelation.. who shall also rule over the entire EARTH for a very short time..
Read Revelation 4-20 in its proper context (ie, the things which shall be hereafter) and see for yourself that this is indeed the DAY OF THE LORD.. which is also told of in miraculous detail throughout the OT..
Now the church of God imo has a much higher calling if I can say that reverently.. our citizenship is in HEAVEN.. not on earth.. and we're to set our affections on the things which are above.. and no doubt the most staggering thing (to say the least) is that the church of God is the BRIDE of our LORD JESUS CHRIST..
We can't even begin to understand the depths of that..
And yet it's going to happen.. in that DAY.. in the Day of the Lord.. the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
To Christ alone be the Glory.
thightower
Member
Re: Thy KINGDOM come and Thy will be done.. on EARTH as it is in Heaven...
Amen brother, AND WHAT A GLORIOUS DAY THAT WILL BE.
Amen brother, AND WHAT A GLORIOUS DAY THAT WILL BE.
Eventide
Member
The world to come...
Hebrews 2:5-9
For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
What says it better than the word of God, that two edged sword of the Spirit...
Hebrews 2:5-9
For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
What says it better than the word of God, that two edged sword of the Spirit...
Eventide
Member
Thy KINGDOM come...
Matthew 19 speaks of the regeneration.. WHEN the Son of Man shall sit upon the Throne of His glory.. with His twelve Apostles also sitting upon thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel..
Matthew 19 also makes a direct connection to Matthew 25.. because THERE is also speaks of the Lord sitting upon the Throne of His glory.. and THERE in Matthew 25 it is directly tied to His COMING..
Very important scriptural connections imo..
NOW, that's not the only place where these things are connected.. let me now direct your attention to the gospel according to Luke.. and see the obvious connection there to the KINGDOM of God..
And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
...
Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Right there in the gospels folks.. could the word of God be any more direct than that ?
Can you see that DAY approaching ?
It's coming.. as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child..
Matthew 19 speaks of the regeneration.. WHEN the Son of Man shall sit upon the Throne of His glory.. with His twelve Apostles also sitting upon thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel..
Matthew 19 also makes a direct connection to Matthew 25.. because THERE is also speaks of the Lord sitting upon the Throne of His glory.. and THERE in Matthew 25 it is directly tied to His COMING..
Very important scriptural connections imo..
NOW, that's not the only place where these things are connected.. let me now direct your attention to the gospel according to Luke.. and see the obvious connection there to the KINGDOM of God..
And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
...
Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Right there in the gospels folks.. could the word of God be any more direct than that ?
Can you see that DAY approaching ?
It's coming.. as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child..