Enoch

[Dorothy Mae]

If everyone has noticed I deleted many post as being off topic, including my own. This thread is about Enoch, not Esau or if we were in heaven before we were born. I apologize for letting this go this far. Please keep on topic. Thank you.

Thanks, I was going to tell that poster to take the discussion elsewhere.

 

[for_his_glory]

Ok no more Esau.
But what is it that makes you think that Enoch was not taken to Heaven? John 3:13?

As I have been saying all along is that God took him, but says nothing more about where he took Enoch. I have to believe what Jesus clearly said in John 3:13. We can only speculate, but have no clear proof that he was taken up to the third heaven, especially when God transferred him to many places here on earth. I can only question those who think they have acually been taken up to the third heaven.

It has nothing to do with our salvation, but thought it was something interesting to discuss.

 

[Mister E]

Those here that think Enoch is in the third heaven please explain to me what Jesus meant in John 3:13

By your own measure-- this post is off topic.

 

[for_his_glory]

So what was Paul talking about in this passage? Paul was taken up.

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Paul was not taken up, but only knew a man as I believe this man was only in the Spirit while in his body while being still on earth and given visions of the third heaven. It would be just like John who was in the Spirit on the isle of Patmos where he received his visions and was told to write them down.

 

[for_his_glory]

By your own measure-- this post is off topic.

No, because John 3:13 is very relevant to the topic in terms of Enoch being taken up to the third heaven.

 

[Edward]

As I have been saying all along is that God took him, but says nothing more about where he took Enoch. I have to believe what Jesus clearly said in John 3:13. We can only speculate, but have no clear proof that he was taken up to the third heaven, especially when God transferred him to many places here on earth. I can only question those who think they have acually been taken up to the third heaven.

It has nothing to do with our salvation, but thought it was something interesting to discuss.

There's no clear proof that Paul was taken to the third Heaven either. But he has witnessed about it and we have to believe it. Do youbelieve that Paul went to the third Heaven like it says?

 

[Edward]

Paul was not taken up, but only knew a man as I believe this man was only in the Spirit while in his body while being still on earth and given visions of the third heaven. It would be just like John who was in the Spirit on the isle of Patmos where he received his visions and was told to write them down.

Ok I see it now. That's why I posted that passage in the NLT and not the KJV. Because in the KJV Paul speaks in the 3rd person, because he doesnt want to boast. Rather to boast in his weaknesses.

Again, in the NLT for added clarity, I pick it up at verse 5 in 2nd Corinthians 12.

5 That experience is worth boasting about, but I’m not going to do it. I will boast only about my weaknesses. 6 If I wanted to boast, I would be no fool in doing so, because I would be telling the truth. But I won’t do it, because I don’t want anyone to give me credit beyond what they can see in my life or hear in my message, 7 even though I have received such wonderful revelations from God. So to keep me from becoming proud, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan to torment me and keep me from becoming proud.

8 Three different times I begged the Lord to take it away. 9 Each time he said, “My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness.” So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me. 10 That’s why I take pleasure in my weaknesses, and in the insults, hardships, persecutions, and troubles that I suffer for Christ. For when I am weak, then I am strong.../NLT

The NLT goes ahead and writes it in the 1st person cuz Paul just didn't want to boast. Paul went to the third Heaven just like it says.

 

[Edward]

Man, those girls just don't want to let Enoch into Heaven! Lol.

Is anything too hard for God? Can our Lord God say, Come up hither and I will show you things...

Oh here it is. Revelation 4

4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne..../KJV

So John went to the throne room of God. In spirit. But the point is, if God wants to call you front and center, just one come up hither and you are there. So yes I believe the word of God. Paul got to go there too. And at least some of those Testimonies stand to be true also then. Just because deception is their prinary tool doesn't mean truth isn't being spoken from many people.

We must be misunderstanding in that no one has ascended to Heaven but He who descended down passage because from what I can tell, God has been snatching people up right and left, as well as manifesting Him self on earth to people.

 

[Edward]

4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things

A door in Heaven was opened. That sounds like a Portal! I believe that some people have been translated to the third Heaven, and some others have been what they call Transrelocated which is being taken to another place on earth, Like Phillip did after Baptizing the Ethyopian man.

 

[Mister E]

No, because John 3:13 is very relevant to the topic in terms of Enoch being taken up to the third heaven.

Then you can't try to limit the conversation to your narrow understanding.

We are getting off topic about predestination and being in heaven before we were born.

This thread is about Enoch, not Esau or if we were in heaven before we were born.

You can't approach understanding John 3:13 without addressing the idea of spiritual pre-existence.

 

[Edward]

Then you can't try to limit the conversation to your narrow understanding.





You can't approach understanding John 3:13 without addressing the idea of spiritual pre-existence.

Way to go bro, Moderate the Moderator, lol. I can't believe you said that to her. Different threads are for for different discussions. Start an Esau thrad if you want to. It was off topic for this thread.

Back on topic of this thread, do you know anyone that you've never met before?

So when Jesus said, I knew you before you were in the womb, it becomes perfectly clear that we existed in Heaven first even if only in spirit. But we were conscious, and apparently talked to Jesus enough that He says He knows me!

That's not a, hey howareya as your walking past someone on the street. That's not I know you.

And I've managed to get to know Jesus enough that He has revealed some of His character traits to me. He is not the big angry God, He is a very nice guy. Humble. It leaves me in awe how He talks.

He is so nice that He answered a prayer that I did not pray. I decided not to pray for it because scripture says, He already knows what we need today and tomorrow. So I didn't. And He delivered a two pound bag of gourmet coffee beans to my door, knock knock. I kid you not!

You see, I had company call and was going to be on their way over. I like being a good host, but I had just made the last 1/2 pot of coffee. I didn't have a cup of coffee to give to my friend while he was here. I had no money at that moment. I thought about praying for God's help. But I remembered that scripture so figured I don't have to pray for coffee or grocery money, He knows. So I did not pray for that.

and 30 minutes coffee was knocking on my door! He delivered it through my friend. My friend did not know I was out of coffee. He just was bringing me a small gift cuz he knows I like my coffee, lol.

But by not praying for it, that was an action of faith. Standing on God's Word in faith. And when we stand on God's word in faith...that is exactly what the Lord responds to. That's what He does! I have a bunch of Testimonies but I kind of hold the delivered coffee to my door as prolly the most coolest Testimonies of all of mine so far.

 

[Mister E]

Did you miss the point? She says this thread is NOT for discussing ‘if we were in heaven before we were born’ and then you make your post about it.

Way to go bro, Moderate the Moderator, lol. I can't believe you said that to her. Different threads are for for different discussions. Start an Esau thrad if you want to. It was off topic for this thread.

Back on topic of this thread, do you know anyone that you've never met before?

So when Jesus said, I knew you before you were in the womb, it becomes perfectly clear that we existed in Heaven first even if only in spirit. But we were conscious, and apparently talked to Jesus enough that He says He knows me!

I’m asking how do we discuss John 3 without addressing the pre-existence question? By her measure, we cannot and your post above should be deleted.

It’s like she is saying— ‘Here is my idea... any alternative ideas will be considered off-topic and subsequently deleted.’

 

[Edward]

Those here that think Enoch is in the third heaven please explain to me what Jesus meant in John 3:13

Here it is in the NLT version.

John 3:13
13 No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man[e] has come down from heaven.../NLT

So apparently, Enoch hasn't been back maybe? Because it doesn't sound like it says no one can go to Heaven. So the logical thing is to assume that Enoch is in Heaven, and has not seen death yet.

I haven't seen Enoch. I know he's not at my house, lol.

 

[Edward]

Did you miss the point? She says this thread is NOT for discussing ‘if we were in heaven before we were born’ and then you make your post about it.



I’m asking how do we discuss John 3 without addressing the pre-existence question? By her measure, we cannot and your post above should be deleted.

It’s like she is saying— ‘Here is my idea... any alternative ideas will be considered off-topic and subsequently deleted.’

Come on man, you're straining at gnats. We are in fact addressing being in Heaven before we were born here at least some because it is relevant.

It was that Esau tangent that the thread had for a few.

 

[Mister E]

Come on man, you're straining at gnats. We are in fact addressing being in Heaven before we were born here at least some because it is relevant.

It was that Esau tangent that the thread had for a few.

No. She specifically said this>>>

This thread is about Enoch, not Esau or if we were in heaven before we were born.

Just because you can't follow it, doesn't mean I didn't.

Imagine trying to have a conversation with someone about theology and you say---- "It's like the story of Job...." and you get interrupted and she says---- "No No Job talk. That's off topic." Or if you try to broaden a conversation about sin to include Adam and Eve in the garden, only to be told that's off limits. When you try to bring up original sin, she declares it to be "Off topic!" How can you have a discussion? You say-- Let's talk about Adam and Eve and she says you can't mention them..... You say you can and she says you didn't! "But I did!"- you protest...

She responds-- "No you didn't..... I deleted it."

 

[for_his_glory]

Come on man, you're straining at gnats. We are in fact addressing being in Heaven before we were born here at least some because it is relevant.

It was that Esau tangent that the thread had for a few.

Edward if you noticed I deleted every post, including my own as we were getting off topic talking about Esau and being in heaven before we were born as none of that has anything to do with the OP.

 

[for_his_glory]

Here it is in the NLT version.

John 3:13
13 No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man[e] has come down from heaven.../NLT

So apparently, Enoch hasn't been back maybe? Because it doesn't sound like it says no one can go to Heaven. So the logical thing is to assume that Enoch is in Heaven, and has not seen death yet.

I haven't seen Enoch. I know he's not at my house, lol.

Says pretty much the same thing as the KJV as no one has ever gone to heaven or returned back from heaven, other than Christ Jesus who know sits at the right hand of God. What part of "no" is it that you do not understand as I find it very easy to understand

Even those testimonies go against what Jesus said.

 

[Edward]

Says pretty much the same thing as the KJV as no one has ever gone to heaven or returned back from heaven, other than Christ Jesus who know sits at the right hand of God. What part of "no" is it that you do not understand as I find it very easy to understand

Even those testimonies go against what Jesus said.

You didn't like my coffee testimony? How does it goes against what Jesus said?

And it doesn'tsay no one has gone to Heaven or returned. It says no one has gone to Heaven And returned. So that could be easily, Enoch.

 

[hawkman]

Here it is in the NLT version.

John 3:13
13 No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man[e] has come down from heaven.../NLT

So apparently, Enoch hasn't been back maybe? Because it doesn't sound like it says no one can go to Heaven. So the logical thing is to assume that Enoch is in Heaven, and has not seen death yet.

I haven't seen Enoch. I know he's not at my house, lol.

Exactly , no one has ascended and came back from heaven to earth .

In John Chapter 3 Jesus is talking to Nicodemus and Jesus is telling him that no one has ascended to heaven in such a way as to return and talk about heavenly things. Jesus want Nicodemus to understand that it is only Jesus that has first hand knowledge of heaven and can tell of it on earth at this time .

Where are Enoch and Elijah ? I believe they are where God wants them to be for right now .
I think Enoch and Elijah will be the two witnesses spoken of in Revelation .
Every man is appointed once to die .
My thoughts anyway .

 

[hawkman]

Says pretty much the same thing as the KJV as no one has ever gone to heaven or returned back from heaven, other than Christ Jesus who know sits at the right hand of God. What part of "no" is it that you do not understand as I find it very easy to understand

Even those testimonies go against what Jesus said.

One other thought I had . If you say you ascended the stairs it would mean you went up the stairs under your own power . If you are taken up the stairs it would be with help that you get up the stairs .