Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Tired of all the political strife and infighting?
Find out how Christians are supposed to act in the following study
https://christianforums.net/threads/charismatic-bible-studies-1-peter-2-11-17.109823/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Essential vs Nonessential
- Thread starter netchaplain
- Start date
God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8
Then you agree that: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
You keep posting only a part of what Jesus said in John 5:24, because if the whole verse with it's context is shown, it gives us the whole picture.
Why do you keep hiding the truth, of what Jesus said?
What do you think you have to gain, by distorting the truth of a teaching from the Lord.
I do believe John 5:24 as well as it's context.
Here is what Jesus said -
I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life.
- Hear = hearken to do
- Believe = commit, trust obey
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29
- The condition: those who have done good
- The result: to the resurrection of life
This will never change, no matter how hard you try, to hide the truth.
JLB
Ok so you believe: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
As well as: but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath
As well as: all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8
Thank you for repenting of OSAS.
JLB
Yes, I stopped answering your questions, because you refused to answer mine.
So I will only answer questions that pertain to the scriptures and what they teach.
Believe is the condition for eternal life.
Believe means trust, obey, commit, acknowledge to be true.
- He who obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36 NASB
You will have to explain how the condition for eternal life, "believe", is no longer required, in which eternal life becomes "unconditional".
At what point in the life of a person does eternal life go from being conditional on believing, to "unconditional", having no condition anymore?
JLB
The fee good teaching I was referring to is where people are being told they can just mouth a few words and they are good to go and so they continue living as they have thinking they have closed the deal. It seems that throughout Scripture there resonates a need for us to play a part even though it is not us that actually does the saving but it is the gift that is given by God in His time and by His grace.
His Grace is biblical hope. A certainty. An Absolute. A guarantee.
New American Standard Bible
But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope.
And if people were not so stuck on the milk maybe some of the weightier things would be heard.
If we don't walk in the Spirit, there are major consequences for us.......Just not the loss of our free gift of salvation.
We will have to endure Gods discipline.
We will suffer from the consequences of our choices in this life.
We will lose ETERNAL rewards.
We will be saved as if through fire.
We will miss out on Glorifying Him.
And many more extremely unpleasant consequences.
New American Standard Bible
and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM;
His time for salvation is right now.
2 Cor 6:2~New International Version
For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.
The moment we believe.
Acts 16:31~~New American Standard Bible
They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
And we do play a part. We believe Acts 16:31. And then as a babe in Christ we choose or choose not to.....
2 Pet 3:18~~New American Standard Bible
but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
And there is no loss of salvation in His Grace and knowledge.
John 10:28
billybalke
Member
I know of no scripture which teaches one is saved "the moment we believe".
John 6:47 (NASB95)
47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
John 3:36 (NASB95)
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
2 Cor 6:2~New International Version
For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.
I have answered your questions with scripture. You refuse to answer mine, with scripture.
Your false theology has been completely and thoroughly refuted from the scriptures.
Those who obey Jesus as Lord, by doing good will inherit eternal life.
He who obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36
Those who are in Christ then removed from Christ no longer have access to His life.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Denying the truth won't change it.
JLB
What I agree with is that whoever hears and believes the gospel HAS (as in possesses) eternal life. At that moment.
And I also agree that those Jesus gives eternal life (that would be recipients of eternal life) shall never perish.
What I absolutely do NOT agree with (reject, in fact) is that salvation can be lost. Or that anyone who has been given eternal life can perish, for ANY reason. Because Jesus said they CAN'T perish. For any reason.
You keep bringing this up, but have yet to prove anything. How is the phrase "whoever hears and believes HAS eternal life" shown to mean something other than possessing eternal life WHEN one believes? Please provide some explanation.
Just quoting through v.29 doesn't do anything for your position, whatever it might be.
I've hidden nothing. But it's clear that your charges/claims have no evidence or substance to them. So, what are you hiding?
OK, either lay out your evidence of what I've distorted, or retract this nonsense.
I don't think so.
So, how does any of this lead to the conclusion that eternal life is NOT given the moment one believes in Christ?
You've failed to prove your point. Or even support your point.
Gregg T
Member
You're not alone, bro.
I've already shown from the REST of what Paul wrote about this that NO ONE can "continue to do good and receive eternal life".
Rom 3:9 and 23 teach that every human being is a sinner. Certainly incapable of "continuance in doing good".
This is a real hoot.
I'll never change my mind about what Jesus promises to recipients of eternal life.
But it's high time you repented of your resistance to the truth of eternal security.
No, you've got that backward. I've asked many questions, all of which have been conveniently ignored.
Been there, done that. I can't help those who don't pay attention.
John 10:28 has NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life in order to never perish. I can't imagine why that's not obvious to everyone.
John 10:28 is about recipients of eternal life. There is nothing in the verse about the condition for receiving eternal life. Jesus covered that back in John 3:15,16, 36, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 11:25-27.
Jesus' promise is quite unambiguous. Recipients of eternal life shall never perish. No one has yet shown otherwise.
The ONLY reason one will never perish is because that one has received eternal life from Jesus.
OK. I can't recall any pastor or personal or public evangelist who has ever preached such a thing.
First, "just mouthing a few words" is totally vague and quite unbiblical. Who are you aware of who has taken this approach?
Second, who preaches that once saved by grace through faith, one can "continue living as they have"??
I don't understand what you mean by "play a part". For salvation? I'm unaware of any such verse.
There are many commands for right and holy living. But none are for salvation.
Can a person who has received eternal life ever perish? For any reason?
Scripture please.
What about John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
Is it possible for one who HAS eternal life not to be saved?
Jim Parker
Member
Indulgences were a development of the western church which the evangelical-reformed Protestants seem to have replaced with the modern version of the tithe which goes to the pastor rather than the OT widow, orphan, alien ans Levite.
Indulgences have nothing to do with the faith of the early church which the apostles received from the lips of God the Son.
And your reference to them is a red herring attempt to avoid responding to the point that you feel qualified to re-form the re-formed theology of the reformers who separated themselves, without any Biblical authority, from the Church which Christ established.
Jim Parker
Member
OK - so you're saying that we actually should rip James 2 out of the Bible along with the 150+ admonitions of Holy Ghost inspired scripture which says otherwise.
You have re-formed the faith to fit you personal preferences.
The following are Jesus' words which you apparently believe yourself qualified to refute:
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
he who does not obey the Son shall not see life,
but the wrath of God rests upon him.
Obedience requires what you call "works."
John 5:28-29 (NKJV)
… the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—
those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Jesus says your works are necessary for eternal life.
I really don't care what you and your compadres say that contradicts those words of Jesus.
Salvation without obedience to Jesus' commands is the widely preached cheap grace heresy that has become popular in many American churches and among televangelists.