Jim Parker
Member
So either I'm a liar or you are.I said:
"Could you point out where it is clear that one's works are required for salvation?"
No, you haven't.
Find out how Christians are supposed to act in the following study
https://christianforums.net/threads/charismatic-bible-studies-1-peter-2-11-17.109823/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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So either I'm a liar or you are.I said:
"Could you point out where it is clear that one's works are required for salvation?"
No, you haven't.
In a way, you did, here.Second, who preaches that once saved by grace through faith, one can "continue living as they have"??
I'm not. I've shown exactly where Jesus taught eternal security. John 10:28So either I'm a liar or you are.
I know of no scripture which teaches one is saved "the moment we believe".
What does "in a way" mean? I certainly NEVER said such a thing.In a way, you did, here.
OK - so you're saying that we actually should rip James 2 out of the Bible along with the 150+ admonitions of Holy Ghost inspired scripture which says otherwise.
Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, The one who hears My Word, and believes the One who has sent Me, has everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
It is true that one who believes has everlasting life.
The moment one believes is point 'a'.
It is true that person 'A' believes at point 'a'.
Therefore, it is true that person 'A' has everlasting life at point 'a'.
- - -
The same arguement can be made for knowing The Father and the Son, being generated from above, and having the Son.
Joh 17:3 And this is everlasting life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
1Jn 5:1 Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been generated from God. And everyone who loves Him who begets also loves the one who has been born of Him.
1Jn 5:12 The one having the Son has life. The one not having the Son of God does not have life.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life everlasting.
- - -
Eph 1:13 in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also believing you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
All of the above leads to a conclusion that the Holy Spirit has taken up residence at point 'a'.
- - -
And I refer you to this from a previous post:
Given that the accomplished work of God in Christ provides the means for salvation, one must believe God in order to be saved by Him.
1. When someone believes, these things occur simultaneously:
2a. The action of being set into Christ simultaneously accomplishes these things for the individual:
- the Spirit of the Lord takes residence, sealing him
- his heart is circumcised,
- he is placed / set into Christ
- he is raised a new creature having eternal life
2b. The action of being set into Christ is the act of God saving the individual, and is spoken of in many ways:
- the Atonement or Propitiation of Christ is applied
- forgiveness and remission of sins are granted
- justification is realized by God accounting His righteousness to
- reconciliation
- sanctification by Christ's blood (not the subsequent process of)
- adoption by the Father
- Christ being our peace with the Father
- a standing in grace
- transfered out of the domain of darkness and into the kingdom of His son
- is delivered, saved, born from above, born again
- made alive together with Christ
- baptized into Christ
- entering through the narrow door / gate
Neither Jn.5:24 nor any other passage in the NT says "in the moment one believes. Solve this first before we get into the rest of your post.Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, The one who hears My Word, and believes the One who has sent Me, has everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
It is true that one who believes has everlasting life.
The moment one believes is point 'a'.
It is true that person 'A' believes at point 'a'.
Therefore, it is true that person 'A' has everlasting life at point 'a'.
- - -
The same arguement can be made for knowing The Father and the Son, being generated from above, and having the Son.
Joh 17:3 And this is everlasting life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
1Jn 5:1 Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been generated from God. And everyone who loves Him who begets also loves the one who has been born of Him.
1Jn 5:12 The one having the Son has life. The one not having the Son of God does not have life.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life everlasting.
- - -
Eph 1:13 in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also believing you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
All of the above leads to a conclusion that the Holy Spirit has taken up residence at point 'a'.
- - -
And I refer you to this from a previous post:
Given that the accomplished work of God in Christ provides the means for salvation, one must believe God in order to be saved by Him.
1. When someone believes, these things occur simultaneously:
2a. The action of being set into Christ simultaneously accomplishes these things for the individual:
- the Spirit of the Lord takes residence, sealing him
- his heart is circumcised,
- he is placed / set into Christ
- he is raised a new creature having eternal life
2b. The action of being set into Christ is the act of God saving the individual, and is spoken of in many ways:
- the Atonement or Propitiation of Christ is applied
- forgiveness and remission of sins are granted
- justification is realized by God accounting His righteousness to
- reconciliation
- sanctification by Christ's blood (not the subsequent process of)
- adoption by the Father
- Christ being our peace with the Father
- a standing in grace
- transfered out of the domain of darkness and into the kingdom of His son
- is delivered, saved, born from above, born again
- made alive together with Christ
- baptized into Christ
- entering through the narrow door / gate
A dialogue between two reasonable people does not work that way.Neither Jn.5:24 nor any other passage in the NT says "in the moment one believes. Solve this first before we get into the rest of your post.
Fooled me.No that is not what I am saying.
A dialogue between two reasonable people does not work that way.
I offered a proof as to why Jn 5:24 necessiates that upon believing one has eternal life, or in other words, the moment one believes he has eternal life.
If you can demonstrate that my proof / argument is false, I will humbly concede, and then we can consider other matters.
But for now your position is unsubstantiated opinion.
I have read your entire post a 2nd time and my position remains substantiated. You cannot produce a single scripture which teaches "the moment one believes he has eternal life" much less one passage which says that. Your logic throughout your post does not substantiate it. Again handle this and then we can proceed.A dialogue between two reasonable people does not work that way.
I offered a proof as to why Jn 5:24 necessiates that upon believing one has eternal life, or in other words, the moment one believes he has eternal life.
If you can demonstrate that my proof / argument is false, I will humbly concede, and then we can consider other matters.
But for now your position is unsubstantiated opinion.
That's true.upon believing one has eternal life, or in other words, the moment one believes he has eternal life.
The strict/unambiguous common Greek of The Lord Jesus Christ's day proves that the moment one believes, that person is saved and HAS eternal life.I have read your entire post a 2nd time and my position remains substantiated. You cannot produce a single scripture which teaches "the moment one believes he has eternal life" much less one passage which says that. Your logic throughout your post does not substantiate it. Again handle this and then we can proceed.
God bless
In order to depart from the faith, one had to be IN the faith. Those are people who believed and had eternal life and then abandoned both their faith and the eternal life.
Who can live with that idea?
Perhaps you can show us one single scripture which says or even hints one is saved "the moment he believes". Acts 16:30,31 does not say such.The strict/unambiguous common Greek of The Lord Jesus Christ's day proves that the moment one believes, that person is saved and HAS eternal life.
The Aorist tense of believe in Acts 16:31 proves this......................But it will be rejected.
And if we are not saved the moment we believe..............How can we put on the Helmet of salvation? A VITAL part of our armor........It protects the HEAD.
Sad, people won't and can't put on this vital piece of HIS armor.
Eph 6:17~~New American Standard Bible
And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
AH SO des ka!Many believers are in or will be in apostasy. Doesn't mean they were not saved in the first place.
Yeah it does.They have departed from THE faith.....doesn't mean they have lost salvation.
Perhaps you can show us one single scripture which says or even hints one is saved "the moment he believes". Acts 16:30,31 does not say such.
It proves that one must ignore the rest of scripture to hold to the OSAS nonsense.The strict/unambiguous common Greek of The Lord Jesus Christ's day proves...blah....blah....blah
I have read your entire post a 2nd time and my position remains substantiated. You cannot produce a single scripture which teaches "the moment one believes he has eternal life" much less one passage which says that. Your logic throughout your post does not substantiate it. Again handle this and then we can proceed.
God bless
All of the above and yet not ONE of those passages says or hints one has eternal life "the moment one believes". Keep looking please.John 6:47 (NASB95)
47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
John 3:36 (NASB95)
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
2 Cor 6:2~New International Version
For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.
Acts 16:31.