Eternal Security of the Believer !

[felix]

Anybody who argues either side of this topic is only reading the half of the bible they want to support their ideal, not what the bible says orchestratively about this topic. There is a dichotomy concerning the dynamics behind what either argument is based upon that are together in scripture, are evident in practicum and without both halfs, imbalance is only the result. Faith says we don't have to make complete and explainable what God did not.

The theologies behind either side of this argument are tantamount to adding to the revealed Word of God... That should not be taken lightly.

Those who believe Eternal security reject Christ's teachings and misinterpret Paul's letters.

By rejecting Christ's teachings, I mean rejecting sermon on the mount, parables used and every teaching to warn people. Christ never taught Eternal Security.

 

[Guest]

Christ never taught Eternal Security.

What do you mean, there are plenty of verses that easily disprove your statement.

 

[felix]

What do you mean, there are plenty of verses that easily disprove your statement.

No! there is nothing.

 

[Guest]

No! there is nothing.

You can't be serious, give me one reason why I should take you seriously.

 

[Deborah13]

Those who believe Eternal security reject Christ's teachings and misinterpret Paul's letters.

By rejecting Christ's teachings, I mean rejecting sermon on the mount, parables used and every teaching to warn people. Christ never taught Eternal Security.

John 6:37-40

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Seems to me that Jesus is teaching Eternal Security. I feel very, very secure because my God does not lie. Also read John 10.

I read your blog, I don't know what you were taught or what your background is but you need to know how much Jesus loves you brother and that His blood is stronger than you, satan, or sin of the flesh.

 

[SlickPen50]

Then why all warnings about "falling away" or perishing... I suppose those words don't mean what they mean or they were translated wrong... The bible teaches the keeping power of God coupled with the responsibility of man...

You read my blog? I've never questioned God's love and enjoy it immensely. I've read the entire bible and I don't feel that anyone is absolutely without caveat "secure." And how the two realities play out and balance... I'll let God be God and not try and put Him in a box I am comfortable with and call it belief.

We need to stop trying to get something out of God, or "believe" in Him because there is something in it for us. He is worthy to be served because He is who He is, even if we went to hell for eternity after having served Him in this life.

see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDQC45_RA2c

 

[Guest]

Then why all warnings about "falling away" or perishing... I suppose those words don't mean what they mean or they were translated wrong...He is worthy to be served because He is who He is, even if we went to hell for eternity after having served Him in this life.

You can't go to hell after being born again, I think you're referring to false prophets spewing nonsense.

 

[Deborah13]

Then why all warnings about "falling away" or perishing... I suppose those words don't mean what they mean or they were translated wrong... The bible teaches the keeping power of God coupled with the responsibility of man...

You read my blog? I've never questioned God's love and enjoy it immensely. I've read the entire bible and I don't feel that anyone is absolutely without caveat "secure." And how the two realities play out and balance... I'll let God be God and not try and put Him in a box I am comfortable with and call it belief.

We need to stop trying to get something out of God, or "believe" in Him because there is something in it for us. He is worthy to be served because He is who He is, even if we went to hell for eternity after having served Him in this life.

see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDQC45_RA2c

We don't have to try to get something out of God. He gives us grace in all things. He gave us the gift of righteousness in Jesus. Seems to me that any else is a smaller blessing wouldn't you say? I want to be in His will don't you? So whatever He has for me I am determined to receive.

 

[felix]

John 6:37-40

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Seems to me that Jesus is teaching Eternal Security. I feel very, very secure because my God does not lie. Also read John 10.

I read your blog, I don't know what you were taught or what your background is but you need to know how much Jesus loves you brother and that His blood is stronger than you, satan, or sin of the flesh.

(John 6:36) "But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.
(John 6:37) "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
(John 6:38) "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
(John 6:39) "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
(John 6:40) "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

Do you know what it means to "believe" him and "coming to Him"?

(John 12:44) Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me.
(John 12:45) "And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.
(John 12:46) "I have come [as] a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.
(John 12:47) "And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

(John 3:18) "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(John 3:19) "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
(John 3:20) "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
(John 3:21) "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

Jesus clearly explains what it means to "believe", "coming to Him" and "following Him".

 

[felix]

You can't be serious, give me one reason why I should take you seriously.

Because, if He taught eternal security, then you make sermon on the mount, all parables, and all warnings as a joke.

 

[felix]

You can't go to hell after being born again, I think you're referring to false prophets spewing nonsense.

Who told you that?

(Hebrews 10:26) For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
(Hebrews 10:27) but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
(Hebrews 10:28) Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
(Hebrews 10:29) Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
(Hebrews 10:30) For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The LORD will judge His people."
(Hebrews 10:31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

It is the same Peter who wrote:

(1 Peter 1:22) Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,
(1 Peter 1:23) having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

also wrote the following:

(2 Peter 2:20) For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
(2 Peter 2:21) For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known [it,] to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
(2 Peter 2:22) But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."

I think you are uninformed of Scripture, teachers giving a false sense of comfort.

 

[Mitspa]

John 6:37-40

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Seems to me that Jesus is teaching Eternal Security. I feel very, very secure because my God does not lie. Also read John 10.

I read your blog, I don't know what you were taught or what your background is but you need to know how much Jesus loves you brother and that His blood is stronger than you, satan, or sin of the flesh.

Clear as The Day of the Lord! If we hold our confidence steadfast until the end. Its faith!
The law is not of faith! those who attempt to be justified by law have fallen from grace and are "CUT OFF" this is the ONLY biblical reason given for any to "fall away" or to perish.

Those who seek to justify themselves by the law are in the flesh, not in faith! They ARE NOT SUPPOSED to be confident of salvation! The flesh cannot please God.
So its no wonder that those who are legalist and attempt to justifiy themselves, cannot see the truth of the gospel.

2 Cor 3 says they are blinded by the Old Testament and the law "10 commandments", Ch 4 says that the god this world has blinded them that they cannot see the truth of the gospel.

For we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit that is from God that we might KNOW the things FREELY given to us by God.

Those who are in the flesh can never understand the confidence we have in Christ, they are not supposed to!

1 John tells us that if we KNOW His Love, we have confidence. One who does not know His Love is not able to have this confidence.

 

[felix]

We don't have to try to get something out of God. He gives us grace in all things. He gave us the gift of righteousness in Jesus. Seems to me that any else is a smaller blessing wouldn't you say? I want to be in His will don't you? So whatever He has for me I am determined to receive.

Who told grace is given to you?

(Romans 3:24) being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
(2 Timothy 2:1) You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
(2 Timothy 1:1) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
(2 Timothy 2:10) Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
(2 Timothy 3:15) and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Everything is in Jesus Christ. If we have Christ, we have grace, salvation and eternal life, all promises. If we reject Him by bearing no fruit, so do we reject every promise. Grace was never given to you at the first place.

 

[felix]

I read your blog, I don't know what you were taught or what your background is but you need to know how much Jesus loves you brother and that His blood is stronger than you, satan, or sin of the flesh.

(Matthew 7:21) " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
(Matthew 7:22) "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
(Matthew 7:23) "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Calling Him Lord, Lord and still practicing lawlessness will never allow entrance to Kingdom of heaven

 

[Deborah13]

People are not always taught correctly. They receive Jesus as Savior and Lord, they are taught that only their sins before being born again are forgiven by grace but after that they earn righteousness by obedience to the Law. They are not taught that righteousness is a gift.
Romans 5:17
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

I believe they are just as saved as I am but they live in fear for themselves, their children, and for other Christians.
They very often live in guilt, are judgement, and condemning. They don't mean to be but in not knowing this truth they think they are right to be that way.

 

[felix]

People are not always taught correctly. They receive Jesus as Savior and Lord, they are taught that only their sins before being born again are forgiven by grace but after that they earn righteousness by obedience to the Law. They are not taught that righteousness is a gift.
Romans 5:17
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

I believe they are just as saved as I am but they live in fear for themselves, their children, and for other Christians.
They very often live in guilt, are judgement, and condemning. They don't mean to be but in not knowing this truth they think they are right to be that way.

Who is speaking anything about the Law?

In fact, following the law after the new covenant is abomination to God. (Ref: http://www.churchsw.org/old-covenant )
I also explained the difference in works mentioned by Paul and James in another blog. (Ref: http://www.churchsw.org/faith-and-works-in-salvation ).

Sermon on the mount or practicing righteousness are not works of the Law. These will make you worthy for grace rather than falling short of it.

(Hebrews 12:14) Pursue peace with all [people,] and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
(Hebrews 12:15) looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

 

[Deborah13]

Who told grace is given to you?

(Romans 3:24) being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
(2 Timothy 2:1) You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
(2 Timothy 1:1) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
(2 Timothy 2:10) Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
(2 Timothy 3:15) and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Everything is in Jesus Christ. If we have Christ, we have grace, salvation and eternal life, all promises. If we reject Him by bearing no fruit, so do we reject every promise. Grace was never given to you at the first place.

You just did brother, read your post where I bolded it.

 

[Deborah13]

(John 6:36) "But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.
(John 6:37) "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
(John 6:38) "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
(John 6:39) "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
(John 6:40) "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

Do you know what it means to "believe" him and "coming to Him"?

(John 12:44) Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me.
(John 12:45) "And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.
(John 12:46) "I have come [as] a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.
(John 12:47) "And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

(John 3:18) "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(John 3:19) "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
(John 3:20) "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
(John 3:21) "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

Jesus clearly explains what it means to "believe", "coming to Him" and "following Him".

Yes, you right in your last statement. Believe and follow.

 

[felix]

If we have Christ, we have grace, salvation and eternal life, all promises.

Yes, you right in your last statement. Believe and follow.

Okay, this is what I said in both posts:
If we have Christ, we have grace, salvation and eternal life, all promises.
Jesus clearly explains what it means to "believe", "coming to Him" and "following Him".

How does that prove Eternal Security?

 

[Guest]

Who told you that?

Scripture tells me that with the faith that's been given to me through the grace of God. You've got a lot to learn felix.