Eternal Security of the Believer !

[reba]

Felix is as least being honest.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Felix is as least being honest.

Yes Felix honestly admitted that he continues to violate and break God's law and 10 Commandments!!!

But now I am interested to see if he believes he is a LOST MAN or a SAVED MAN seeing he continues to sin, which means to violate and break God's law and 10 Commandments!!! According to Felix he believes to repent of your sins is to turn from all your sins, but he obviously has not done so as he continues to sin!

I await his reply an answer with interest, and hope he is honest enough to provide a direct and honest answer and what he believes he must now do to be saved and to inherit eternal life in heaven seeing he still sins and breaks God's Law.

I want Felix to tell me if he believes he can be accepted by God, inherit eternal life and get into heaven if he continues to sin as he is currently doing.

 

[reba]

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Are the above verses the true Word of God? Yes or no

Do yo say you have no sin? Yes or No

 

[jasoncran]

I actually hate sin, in fact I detest sin. And I love the Law, the Law is good and just and Holy.

So now I answered your question, please be fair and answer my question:

Do you believe it's impossible for a sincerely born again Christian to have eternal security? Yes or No?

no you didnt. dont think that was an answer. is it possble for a christian to turn from God?

my answer lies in that. if so then eternal security isnt so. as it not God that fails. we do.do you really know if a harden sinner that was faithful never was faithful? do you or i really know if he or she did sincerly repent?

saying a simple little prayer is just the start but that doesnt mean you cant retract that desire.

i answer your question with this:

does God make us repent for each sin we made? No, he convicts we choose to change
does God make us serve him? No,, we must choose
then How does the doctrine of eternal security allegeldly work?
simple. God allows us to live in sin and reap what we sow. the very words in the bible will burn us, we either listen and repent and all is restored. the doctrine of eternal security per its orginal name PERSERVERANCE OF THE SAINTS. is just that. we walk away and God pursues and chastites us till we repent.

for the most part that holds true but some do rebell and God lets them have their wish.

let me delineate what you appear to espouse to me.
1) a christian may be saved but not in right fellowship with God. he may not grow in grace and do works but while still heaven bound he or she wont recieve much at the bema seat judgment
YES, I HAVE HEARD THAT PREACHED BY BAPTISTS
2) A CONUNDRUM for your types, if christ at the cross(yes true indeed) did pay for all your sins past, present and the future why then are you saying that unrepentant sin that we know of is just ignored. yes i understand we will never be so holy and blameless and not sin on our death so i do see a measure of grace their. but and big but. what of those sins you know and dont care to repent from such has hate, anger etc that God warns off. ie forgive as you will be forgiven
3) free will. if you dont buy limited will how then does perseverance of the saints work? so when you say the sinner prayer your will is overridden and you want to do good works or is it regenerated and you do that in response( i buy that part) but... somehow those false prophets rejected the messiah by their actions. they turned back.so if i want sin over christ and keep sining and sinning. what will god do?i have heard a few pastor teach this" like moses and annias and saphira were slain god will slay you so that your soul wont be lost"

sin and sin all those types wanted and God kills them so that they wont go to far? why that sounds very calvinistic. God seeing us and rescuing us over our will. does he do that.

yes he does. see my argument on perservance of the saints and what i defined that. we still however have the choice to accept his offer to be rescued or not.

its my believe that one can loose their salvation albiet real hard to do as it must willful and purpsoseful.most men and women are decieve and walk away by the blinding of satan not too often are they alot of willful false prophets.

 

[felix]

I want Felix to tell me if he believes he can be accepted by God, inherit eternal life and get into heaven if he continues to sin as he is currently doing.

Very True. I don't deserve Eternal Life. Neither I am accepted by God. But I do have a personal advocate and I confess my wrong doings to Him whenever I struggle and fail in my sin. He is very good in saving me from the wrath of God and you should try Him too. His number is J-E-S-U-S.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Very True. I don't deserve Eternal Life. Neither I am accepted by God. But I do have a personal advocate and I confess my wrong doings to Him whenever I struggle and fail in my sin. He is very good in saving me from the wrath of God and you should try Him too. His number is J-E-S-U-S.

Seeing you do not believe you have been accepted by God and seeing you have admitted that you sin and break God's Law and 10 Commandments....please answer this question directly and honestly... can you be saved and inherit eternal life if you continue to sin? Yes or No?

 

[felix]

So you have not been accepted by God?

Yes, I have not been accepted by God. That's why, I require Christ through whom I will be accepted by God.

And please answer this question directly and honestly... can you be saved and inherit eternal life if you continue to sin? Yes or No?

You need to be clear when you say 'continue to sin'. When I say I had 'not stopped sinning', it means I am not always sinning without the fear of God or His righteous judgement. It means, I fall and slip into temptation but I will give a good fight before I fail the test. Having said that, I had not always failed. I pass 95% of the time but I still fail 5% by falling into sin and I am in the process of being perfect and sinless just as God is perfect, but I am not perfect as God. So, I require His grace always. It is through His grace, I will enter heaven.

(Titus 3:3-7) For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

If anyone does not believe in Christ anymore and completely rejected Him, inspite of previously been partakers of Holy Spirit and tasted the good things of God, then as in Heb 6:4-8, is near to being cursed and the end is .. God should have mercy on him.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

..I pass 95% of the time but I still fail 5% by falling into sin and I am in the process of being perfect and sinless just as God is perfect..

So tell me Felix.. seeing you sin 5% of the time, are you saved seeing you sin? In other words, can you be saved as long as you continue sinning and breaking God's Law? YES OR NO?

And seeing you believe you have PERFECT interpretation and PERFECT understanding of entire Scripture, can you please open up a new thread and explain to me and others WHAT the MARK OF THE BEAST IS, WHO OR WHAT THE BEAST AND MARK IS, and WHO WILL GET IT AND WHY.

As you know there is a lot of different opinions about this topic amongst Christians, so surely you can give me and the world the proper teaching about this topic seeing you have PERFECT interpretation and PERFECT understanding of entire Scripture.

Thank you Felix, I look forward to reading it.

 

[felix]

So tell me Felix.. seeing you sin 5% of the time, are you saved seeing you sin? In other words, can you be saved as long as you continue sinning and breaking God's Law? YES OR NO?

Yes. I can be saved as long as I truly repent and confess my sins to God.

And seeing you believe you have PERFECT interpretation and PERFECT understanding of entire Scripture,

Sorry, the understanding is through Holy Spirit who will teach me all things.

can you please open up a new thread and explain to me and others WHAT the MARK OF THE BEAST IS, WHO OR WHAT THE BEAST AND MARK IS, and WHO WILL GET IT AND WHY.

God haven't taught me that yet. When He teaches me, I will tell you.

 

[reba]

TruthSeeker2012

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Are the above verses the true Word of God? Yes or no

Do yo say you have no sin? Yes or No

 

[francisdesales]

So tell me Felix.. seeing you sin 5% of the time, are you saved seeing you sin? In other words, can you be saved as long as you continue sinning and breaking God's Law? YES OR NO?

You know, things are not so black and white when discussing theology. The constant "Yes or No" questions are not well-served here.

In addition, it sounds like you are trying to trap Felix in some semantics. I am not sure if that is what you desire to do, but I am merely stating what it looks like from the audience's point of view. Perhaps you may consider another way of asking Felix for his beliefs? Your current line of questioning is more in line with a lawyer trying to grill a hostile witness...

Regards

 

[savedbygrace57]

To deny Eternal Security is a flat out denial that God will stablish Believers in the Truth ! Its a denial of God's Faithfulness ! 2 Thess 3:3

But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

The word stablish is the greek word sterizo and means:

) to make stable, place firmly, set fast, fix
2) to strengthen, make firm
3) to render constant, confirm, one's mind

First lets establish whom Paul is referring to that God will stablish ! 2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Paul is writing to those who have been brought to the belief of the Truth by means of the Spirit's sanctification and God's Choice of them !

So Paul is writing to them, that the Lord SHALL make you stable ! What does that mean, to be made stable ? Our English word stable means:

steadfast; not wavering or changeable, as in character or purpose; dependable.


Now back to 2 Thess 3:3, also concerning the PROMISE that the Lord shall stablish them, the word stablish is in the future tense which means the certainty of this occurring in the future. So that eliminates the possibility of them becoming unstable or changing from their steadfastness in the future.

Now this Paul says is because of God's Faithfulness, not theirs. So God's faithfulness is at stake if they should loose their steadfastness in the Lord..And those of you who say its possible, you are speaking against the Lord and His Faithfulness !

 

[francisdesales]

To deny Eternal Security is a flat out denial that God will stablish Believers in the Truth ! Its a denial of God's Faithfulness ! 2 Thess 3:3

But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

You are reading what is not there, again, sbg...

Read the context of 2 Thess 3:2 carefully. WHO is God rescuing believers from? It is from evil MEN, not the devil, not hell. These verses are not about eternal salvation, but a promise that God cannot be separated from believers - just as Paul will later write to the Romans in the 8th chapter. NOTHING shall separate us from the love of Christ. God is faithful and will keep us from the evil of men (spiritually, of course). The Thessalonians are being given encouragement - "do not fear the persecution or temptations of evil men, for God will not abandon you. He will continue to give you the grace to remain faithful and resist temptation - if you remain faithful to your own calling."

Regards

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Yes. I can be saved as long as I truly repent and confess my sins to God.



Sorry, the understanding is through Holy Spirit who will teach me all things.



God haven't taught me that yet. When He teaches me, I will tell you.

1. Your first answer shows me that you have never understood the proper gospel. So I will explain something to you:

Salvation is not about you perfectly turning away from your sins and daily asking God to forgive you. That's a false gospel based on WORKS AND HUMAN EFFORT that you believe in and teach!

1 John 1:9 is the only verse in the entire new testament that speaks about confession of sins, and it doesn't apply to believers, it's a message to unbelievers who refused to admit and acknowledge they were sinners to begin with.

In a nutshell this verse is not talking to or about the Christian’s need to confess sins in order to be forgiven! John is talking about boastful false teachers who believed that they had never ever sinned!

John angers back at them and says that if these false teachers hoped to be saved then they needed to confess [acknowledge and admit] that they were sinners. In other words, 1 John 1:9 is referring to the point in time that a person comes to Jesus for the first time. When they come to Christ they need to first “confess” their sinfulness. These false teachers were saying that they had no sin – see 1 John 1:8. John said that they were liars and deceiving themselves – the truth was not in them – they in fact were not yet saved. Read 1 John right through and this point becomes clear. This is the only verse in the New Testament that links confession of sin with forgiveness and it is not even talking about or to believers!

If you believe that you need to badger God with your confession and repentance in order for him to provide you with forgiveness then you really do not believe that God established your forgiveness through the blood 2000 years ago.

You are under the BEWITCHING false gospel of human efforts, Galatians 3.

2. Has the Holy Spirit taught you ALL THINGS? So there is nothing you do not KNOW or UNDERSTAND? Are you omnipotent?

3. You told me in a previous message that you have perfect interpretation and perfect understanding of ENTIRE Scripture, so I asked you to explain to me and the world about the MARK OF THE BEAST, and now you say YOU DO NOT KNOW ABOUT IT! So this shows you CONTRADICTED yourself..one minute you say you have perfect interpretation and perfect understanding of ENTIRE Scripture, but now you admit you not understand nor have completely interpreted WHO the BEAST IS, what the MARK IS and WHO WILL GET IT AND WHY!

Felix, you are not teaching the true gospel and you are contradicting yourself.

So I ask you again.... Do you have perfect interpretation and perfect understanding of entire Scripture? YES OR NO? Your answer obviously must be NO seeing you just admitted you yet do not understand all the issues about the Mark of the Beast!

 

[reba]

Yes or no truthseeker2012

TruthSeeker2012

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Are the above verses the true Word of God? Yes or no

Do yo say you have no sin? Yes or No

 

[reba]

You know, things are not so black and white when discussing theology. The constant "Yes or No" questions are not well-served here.

In addition, it sounds like you are trying to trap Felix in some semantics. I am not sure if that is what you desire to do, but I am merely stating what it looks like from the audience's point of view. Perhaps you may consider another way of asking Felix for his beliefs? Your current line of questioning is more in line with a lawyer trying to grill a hostile witness...

Regards

One would think he would be open to answer a simple yes or no question

 

[felix]

Yes. I can be saved as long as I truly repent and confess my sins to God.

1. Your first answer shows me that you have never understood the proper gospel. So I will explain something to you:

Salvation is not about you perfectly turning away from your sins and daily asking God to forgive you. That's a false gospel based on WORKS AND HUMAN EFFORT that you believe in and teach!

Perfectly turning away from your sins is impossible by us because Scripture says so in Eccl 7:20, but possible by Him in us as in 1John 3:9. I said, 'truly repent and confess' because, I want my sins to be blotted out as in Acts 3:19.

(Rev 2:5) "Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place -- unless you repent.

If you say 'truly repent and confess my sins to God' whenever I fall and sin, is a work, so be it, I don't care because I follow scriptures not theology books or doctrines of denominations.

(Matt 7:19) "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

(Luke 13:6-9) He also spoke this parable: "A certain [man] had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?' But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize [it.] And if it bears fruit, [well.] But if not, after that you can cut it down.' "

You must understand, bearing good fruit has nothing to works of the law.

As Christ said, "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire", Amen.

So, if there is a bad fruit in me, I go to the Lord and confess so that He can help me produce good fruit for Him and a useful vessel in His house.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Perfectly turning away from your sins is impossible by us because Scripture says so in Eccl 7:20, but possible by Him in us...

So let me get this straight... you are still sinning and breaking God's Law and 10 Commandments, but Jesus inside you is not. Is that what you are saying?

 

[reba]

TruthSeeker2012

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Are the above verses the true Word of God? Yes or no

Do yo say you have no sin? Yes or No

 

[felix]

So let me get this straight... you are still sinning and breaking God's Law and 10 Commandments, but Jesus inside you is not. Is that what you are saying?

I am not saying a sinning person will inherit kingdom of God. I am saying struggle of fleeing from sins have success and failure and this birth pain will eventually lead to a new creation in Christ as a born again or born in Spirit. It is very true that people who are born of God NEVER sins and he that sins is of the devil. Being born again is not a switch which happens in a day or just by believing in Christ. It could even happen in several decades, but it is a work of God not man. Every time I fail in the struggle to flee my sins to be born again, God will provide His grace and help me out through His Spirit in the process of sanctification.

So, what happens if any person who is in the process of being born again, like me dies?

As in 1John 1:9, I repent and confess my sins and I ask forgiveness. So, God will cleanse me from all unrighteousness. Further, I will forgive anyone who had done anything against me as in Luke 6:37. Finally, as in John 3:15, I will have eternal life because I believe in Him and He is my only hope. So, I am justified by grace.

Struggling in sin Vs rejecting God
Struggling in sin and failing in it is very different from rejecting God and sinning. The one who struggles believes in God and calls for His help to battle against his flesh by placing his hope on Christ. The one rejects does not believe in God and has no hope.

(John 6:37) "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

If a person who is struggling in sin rejects God, then he too has no hope and will not inherit eternal life.