Eternal Security

[gr8grace3]

I wonder how many believe they are born again but sadly are not and so they go about their lives, running to and fro, carefree, and living with a false sense of security because someone told them that if they utter certain words they are saved forever.

I would say not many. Because most churches that teach that a person has to "utter certain words" are the very ones who then turn around and say that one MUST now clean up their lives,walk as Jesus did, stop sinning, stop running to and fro.

So the vast majority have stopped running to and fro, have their life cleaned up and are squeaky clean on the outside.......but have just uttered certain words like a sinners prayer or asking Jesus into their hearts or walked an aisle.

The problem in the church is not the message of "sin like like hell." The problem in the church is telling people that "uttering a few words" and cleaning up their lives for Jesus is salvation............and they think they are born again.

Being born again is trusting/believing completely in the Lord Jesus Christ's work on the Cross for salvation.

Acts 16:31 And .....

“Whosoever believes in me will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:15

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:16

“He that believes on him is not condemned, but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has notbelieved in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Jn 3:18

“He that believes the Son has everlasting life, and he that believes not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Jn 3:36

“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one that which sees the Son, and believes on him, will have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”Jn 6:40

“Truly I say unto you, he that believes on me, has everlasting life.” Jn 6:47

 

[smaller]

Every Jot and tittle was not of the letter of the law, but respect to the Spirit of the law.

The Word of God, inclusive of every jot and tittle is and remains valid. The law has purposes against sin indwelling the flesh, evil present with us, and also for the Spirit. It is truly a Two Edged Sword.

The against portions as follows. Romans 7:7-13. 1 Cor. 15:56, Gal. 3:22 as easy examples on the adverse side.

Romans 13:8-10, the Spiritual directive of the Law, that the flesh can NOT fulfill.

Yes, and at what point would be the victory? (Day of Pentecost) Because the instructions in John to followers was before the Holy Spirit was a permanent possession.

Every Word of God is and remains fully valid for every believer. Yes, every jot and tittle. Some to good, and some, the opposite. The Word that will seem as an opposition to us as flesh men, is actually also for "our life."

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

What law is he talking about here? (The whole law: Ten Commandments, law of the priesthood, (Book of Hebrews), and the prophets (Luke 24:13-32)

Every jot and tittle of Gods Words. Every Statement from His Lips, recorded.

John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

The very first thing a born again believer know's is not to follow after the wiles of the Devil .

There is strong consideration in the Word shown on these matters. Man is not the only entity that moves to action by Gods Words. Satan and his minions also MOVE at the directives of God, to RESIST. This is what they are made to do. It is pointless not to recognize the parties or their adverse motions against every jot and tittle of Gods Words. Particularly when the 'whole' world of flesh men are blinded by our adversaries.

Many will read the O.T. engagements with Gods Word, and they will entirely MISS that God was and remains dealing adversely with the adversaries, simultaneously, IN THE FLESH of all of the people therein. This is a form of spiritual blindness in the readers themselves.

If they see what happened in Israel, they will lay their groundwork on Jesus facts from Mark 4:15 for example, and see more than just the people. They will also see the adversary IN the hearts of the people.

Critical distinction.

All through the Scriptures of the New Covenant are descriptions of the trickery and wiles of Satan. Only the self willed and self righteous are taken in.

Not so.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

As believers we ARE called out to see this.

Where it will always get "dicey" for the reader/believer is when we fess up, or not, to that activity in our own flesh. No flesh man will or can concede this is the case for the flesh of all, and particularly NOT for their own flesh. And they can not, because of the work of the deciever therein in the form of sin thoughts, lusts, deceptions, external sin or what have you.

There are DIRE facts for our own flesh, that the Word reveals. The flesh has indwelling sin, evil present with us, and these things are in fact demonically linked. Romans 7:7-21, 1 John 3:8.

The short version is that it's not just us in our flesh. Paul shows us even he had a messenger of Satan in his own flesh. 2 Cor. 12:7. If we perceive any temptation, internal, as being of our adversary, the location of the adversary is openly transparent.

All born again believers , from the weakest to the most illustrious saint stand equal before the Lord, but our state (maturity) comes over time through testing, but Christ will never leave His own and will bring them to victory (those who are His own) the sheep.

I agree. But this does not vacate judgment.

The ground of Gods Mercy is predicated on our factual state of NEED.

If, by the workings of our adversaries, in resistance to the Word, we see and recognize that we are always in DIRE need of Gods Mercy, then the adversaries are used to show and prove the point.

God WILL have His Mercy. And if His enemies are used to drive home the point of need of Divine Mercy, so be it!

Your warnings are justified maybe to the deceived and self righteous, but the believer knows his judgement should be hell bound,

If we perceive our condition in the flesh, we will know that 'we' as believers can not be lost and our adversaries in our own flesh can NOT be saved.

In this way God is both FOR and against us. Because it's not just "us" as individuals who are involved in the exercises. Paul spells this out clearly in Romans 9:20-21, among many examples.

but has believed by faith to the saving of the soul and dwelling with Christ by the love of God (1 Corinthians Chapter 13) (Luke 15:11-32) Of course no flesh man can see these things, but the born again believer is not all flesh.

The flesh of every believer has been concluded by scripture to be under sin. This conclusion can not change. Gal. 3:22. And as such the flesh of every believer remains against and contrary to the Spirit. Gal. 5:17

So then, what gospel (according to Christ) do you teach?

Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. The best summary of the Gospel, imho, directly from the Mouth of God in Christ.

 

[Roro1972]

John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

When I read this verse I understand it that Jesus was teaching the Jews The New Covenant He did not come to teach them the Old Covenantor to continue the old covenant. He said " if you continue in my word" these words are what he was teaching which was the New Covenant. I see no where where Jesus told his disciples to keep teaching the Israel how to live under the Old Covenant.
Jesus went to the synagogues on the Sabbath cause that is where the lost sheep
(But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.)
gathered and he used the OT to show them it was "He" that had come and fulfilled the OT and Prophets and was here to fulfil Jeremiah 31:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

 

[smaller]

John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

When I read this verse I understand it that Jesus was teaching the Jews The New Covenant He did not come to teach them the Old Covenantor to continue the old covenant. He said " if you continue in my word"

There is a simple litmus test for the above sight.

IF we understand that the Word of God in the O.T. IS the Word of Christ, Christ is not about to deny His Own Word. It can't be done.

Revelation 3:8
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

When we deny Gods Word, any of it, we are in effect denying Him.

Every Word of God became flesh.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh,

 

[Douglas Summers]

I would say not many. Because most churches that teach that a person has to "utter certain words" are the very ones who then turn around and say that one MUST now clean up their lives,walk as Jesus did, stop sinning, stop running to and fro.

So the vast majority have stopped running to and fro, have their life cleaned up and are squeaky clean on the outside.......but have just uttered certain words like a sinners prayer or asking Jesus into their hearts or walked an aisle.

Yes, Christ gives us an example of self willed worship (Matt. 12: 43-45)

 

[Roro1972]

There is a simple litmus test for the above sight.

IF we understand that the Word of God in the O.T. IS the Word of Christ, Christ is not about to deny His Own Word. It can't be done.

Revelation 3:8
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

When we deny Gods Word, any of it, we are in effect denying Him.

Every Word of God became flesh.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh,

I did not say Jesus denied his word, He knew Israel was on the wrong track with the Old covenant old law and He came to convince them He was the one they had been waiting on and offered them a new covenant with new law (heart)they rejected him and the new covenant.

 

[smaller]

I did not say Jesus denied his word, He knew Israel was on the wrong track with the Old covenant old law and He came to convince them He was the one they had been waiting on and offered them a new covenant with new law (heart)they rejected him and the new covenant.

Jesus was not against His Word in the O.T., which was the point of observation. Regardless of "how" the people saw it.

We know the law is spiritual (Romans 7:14) and as such, every command in the entire Bible applies to US as believers. See Paul's statement of fact on this matter in Romans 13:8-10.

We also know from Paul that the law is an allegory. Gal. 4:24

We also know that the Word is Alive and Active. Heb. 4:12

 

[Malachi]

The problem in the church is telling people that "uttering a few words" and cleaning up their lives for Jesus is salvation............and they think they are born again.

How do you know so certainly that they are NOT born again? If they have cleaned up their lives, it would appear to be evidence that they repented and were converted. Since only God knows each heart, all that you or anyone can do is observe their fruits. And cleaned up lives do mean something.

BTW, "uttering a few words" is also to be found in Scripture (Rom 10:9; Acts 8:37):
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved... And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

 

[Jim Parker]

We know the law is spiritual (Romans 7:14) and as such, every command in the entire Bible applies to US as believers. See Paul's statement of fact on this matter in Romans 13:8-10.

So do you go to Jerusalem for the feasts every year? That's a command of the Bible.
Do you bring your tithe to Jerusalem 2 years out of three and have a party there as commanded in Deuteronomy 14?
Do you bring your tithe into the storehouse in your community on the third year so that there will be food for the widow, orphan, stranger and Levite as commanded in Deut.14?
Do you grow your "fore-locks"? That's a command of the Bible.
Do you bind scripture to your hand and between your eyes? That's a command of the Bible.
Do you bring animal sacrifices for sin to the priests? That's a command of the Bible.
are you sure that " every command in the entire Bible applies to US as believers" ?
Or has Christ fulfilled some of the commands and replaced the Old Covenant with the New Covenant.

Heb 8:13 (RSV) In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Iakov the fool




You have chosen to subject yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. No warrantee is declared or implied. Individual mileage may vary. Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[Webb]

Amen Jim Parker

 

[Jim Parker]

Amen Jim Parker

Thank you for encouraging my behavior! 2

iakov the fool

 

[smaller]

So do you go to Jerusalem for the feasts every year? That's a command of the Bible.
Do you bring your tithe to Jerusalem 2 years out of three and have a party there as commanded in Deuteronomy 14?
Do you bring your tithe into the storehouse in your community on the third year so that there will be food for the widow, orphan, stranger and Levite as commanded in Deut.14?
Do you grow your "fore-locks"? That's a command of the Bible.
Do you bind scripture to your hand and between your eyes? That's a command of the Bible.
Do you bring animal sacrifices for sin to the priests? That's a command of the Bible.
are you sure that " every command in the entire Bible applies to US as believers" ?
Or has Christ fulfilled some of the commands and replaced the Old Covenant with the New Covenant.

Heb 8:13 (RSV) In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Iakov the fool

You have chosen to subject yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. No warrantee is declared or implied. Individual mileage may vary. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Every command in the Bible was delivered to us succinctly and sufficiently in Romans 13:8-10.

 

[Roro1972]

Every command in the Bible was delivered to us succinctly and sufficiently in Romans 13:8-10.

So does V 8 mean we can not borrow to have a car or home?

 

[smaller]

So does V 8 mean we can not borrow to have a car or home?

Every command in the Bible was delivered succinctly and sufficiently in Romans 13:8-10.

 

[Jim Parker]

Every command in the Bible was delivered to us succinctly and sufficiently in Romans 13:8-10.

EVERY command? These too?
Lev 5:2-3 ... if any one touches an unclean thing, whether the carcass of an unclean beast or a carcass of unclean cattle or a carcass of unclean swarming things, and it is hidden from him, and he has become unclean, he shall be guilty. Or if he touches human uncleanness, of whatever sort the uncleanness may be with which one becomes unclean, and it is hidden from him, when he comes to know it he shall be guilty.

Lev 7:21 And if any one touches an unclean thing, whether the uncleanness of man or an unclean beast or any unclean abomination, and then eats of the flesh of the sacrifice of the LORD's peace offerings, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Lev 12:2 Say to the people of Israel, If a woman conceives, and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days; as at the time of her menstruation, she shall be unclean.

Lev 12:5 But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her menstruation; and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying for sixty-six days.

Lev 20:25 You shall therefore make a distinction between the clean beast and the unclean, and between the unclean bird and the clean; you shall not make yourselves abominable by beast or by bird or by anything with which the ground teems, which I have set apart for you to hold unclean.

I think Jesus revised the defilement laws when He said, "... whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?”
And he said, "What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man." Mark 7:18-23 RSV

 

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Romans 13:
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Seems simple enough.

 

[Roro1972]

Every command in the Bible was delivered succinctly and sufficiently in Romans 13:8-10.

I do not see an answer to my question in your evasive statement.
does verse 8 mean do not borrow money so one can own a home or car ???????????

 

[smaller]

I do not see an answer to my question in your evasive statement.
does verse 8 mean do not borrow money so one can own a home or car ???????????

Don't know what bearing that has on the matters. Love is an internal matter of the heart.

 

[Roro1972]

Don't know what bearing that has on the matters. Love is an internal matter of the heart.

You said earlier
Every command in the Bible was delivered to us succinctly and sufficiently in Romans 13:8-10.
Verse 8 says owe no man if one follows that rule many would be homeless

 

[smaller]

You said earlier
Every command in the Bible was delivered to us succinctly and sufficiently in Romans 13:8-10.
Verse 8 says owe no man if one follows that rule many would be homeless

Why do you read "owe" and assume it has to do with money or debt?

The law is spiritual and defined as such.