Evidence for events in the Old Testament

[Aardverk]

Rationalism stops you from believing absolutely anything you're told. Without rationalism, you can't make sense of the bible, you can't make sense of words and sentences, you can't determine right from wrong. Rationalism helped lead me to God.

We all need rationalism to function in this world.

Exactly so.

Sadly some people think they can function 'normally' without being rational. :dunno

 

[Aardverk]

....... please tell me what this passage means, for I know nothing...

Hey! That's my line.

 

[Aardverk]

Maybe what we have here is a failure to communicate ;)
2 kinds of knowledge: Head knowledge comes from learning with the mind. Heart knowledge comes by revelation of God's Spirit to our spirit. 2 completely different things that can be contrary one with the other. Thats why we believe God with our heart (spirit) and need to cast down the thoughts in our mind that are contrary to what He says

Hello Reba

You are quite right, there is a failure to communicate.

I like the concept of 'Heart Knowledge'. Other people may call it instinct etc and I have great respect people who dedicate their lives to God based on such instincts.

The arguments seem to start when a thread talks about 'evidence', or the like. Some people think they can present their instincts as 'evidence' and then fail to follow a rational debate because they disagree with 'rationalism'. How on earth do we deal with such 'irrational' people?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Do pay attention allenwynne. I have never challenged your 'belief' nor anyone else's. I have made it perfectly clear that I am happy for anyone to hold whatever belief they want - as long as that does no harm to anyone else.

I have answered questions but I have never challenged anyone's belief. In fact I have said extremely clearly that "I know nothing" - remember that? If "I know nothing", how on earth could I be challenging someone's beliefs? I have also said very clearly that I am open to the beliefs of many religions. Remember any of that? Do pay attention, especially as you only seem interested in issuing insults. Try to make them valid - for your own dignity.

If you think this post contains errors, perhaps you would like to point out where I have challenged your belief. :gah If I really have contradicted myself I am sure you will be delighted to point out where. No? Not going to bother? I wonder why!

Just calm down. I am not anti any religion, certainly not anti-Christian. I am however anti bigotry, bullying, lies and propaganda.

Mr. Aardverk, I believe you are challenging the Bible. In this thread, post #30, you say, "Was he the son of God? I have no idea. On the balance of probabilities, he was not, but I am open to the idea".
Now this is clearly a challenge on your behalf for any believer to prove to you that Jesus was the son of God.
Therefore, you are irrational to place this challenge.
You think the way you word it that it stays within the guidelines of the statement of service on this forum.
I'm sure it does. I'm sure you know the rules better than anyone.
You know we believe by faith, that we don't have all the answers. You know this already.
Yet you continual to words things in such a way that may put doubts in the minds of believers.
Is that a rational thing to do?

As for insulting you, I'm truly sorry.
I guess being human and all, you bring the worst out of me.

 

[Aardverk]

Mr. Aardverk, I believe you are challenging the Bible. In this thread, post #30, you say, "Was he the son of God? I have no idea. On the balance of probabilities, he was not, but I am open to the idea".
Now this is clearly a challenge on your behalf for any believer to prove to you that Jesus was the son of God.

Now, just go back and have another look. You will see that I was answering a very specific question as frankly as I could. Would you prefer that I avoided answering the question or perhaps you would prefer that I lied?

Please stop and think before making these nonsense allegations. I was asked about my beliefs and I answered - then you criticize me for answering! :halo I have NEVER attacked Christianity. I have expressed doubts. If you don't express doubts you don't get the pearls of wisdom that I have already got on this forum. Some people here are very wise.

Therefore, you are irrational to place this challenge.

What challenge are you talking about now allenwynne? :gah

Yet you continual to words things in such a way that may put doubts in the minds of believers.

I doubt that VERY much. Have you any examples of it happening?

Unless one expresses the reason for a particular doubt, there can be no productive response. Part of the reason for the forum is to provide answers and I am very grateful for some of those answers. Other people have expressed gratitude for some of the answers that I have provided. When you have been here a bit longer you will see me debate from your side of an argument just as clearly.

As for insulting you, I'm truly sorry.

Yet you did it yet again just a few lines above those words - so you obviously don't mean it

Now, what about evidence for the events in the Old Testament?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Now, just go back and have another look. You will see that I was answering a very specific question as frankly as I could. Would you prefer that I avoided answering the question or perhaps you would prefer that I lied?

Please stop and think before making these nonsense allegations. I was asked about my beliefs and I answered - then you criticize me for answering! :halo I have NEVER attacked Christianity. I have expressed doubts. If you don't express doubts you don't get the pearls of wisdom that I have already got on this forum. Some people here are very wise.


What challenge are you talking about now allenwynne? :gah


I doubt that VERY much. Have you any examples of it happening?

Unless one expresses the reason for a particular doubt, there can be no productive response. Part of the reason for the forum is to provide answers and I am very grateful for some of those answers. Other people have expressed gratitude for some of the answers that I have provided. When you have been here a bit longer you will see me debate from your side of an argument just as clearly.


Yet you did it yet again just a few lines above those words - so you obviously don't mean it

Now, what about evidence for the events in the Old Testament?

Proverbs 27:22

Good day, for now.

 

[Grazer]

Wouldn't that be calling God a liar, Grazer? I refer you to Proverbs 3: 5
If you are correct, then please tell me what this passage means, for I know nothing. ;)

Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding...

I think Blev has given a great response and I detail more in my blog which I linked to earlier

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[wayseer]

Stop being irrational. ;)

Jesus was irrational so I think I stand in good company.

I recite the Creed every Sunday in church - and in many case I lead the congregation. Anglicans have this habit of reciting otherwise forgotten pieces of wisdom.

The fact that you acknowledge that what I say makes 'no sense' indicates that the 'sense' that you are looking for has to gell with your notion of what truth should be. Jesus also made 'no sense' to the Jews of his day.

I am encouraging to think beyond the cliches - beyond the trite and mundane.

You may laugh but I invite you to think.

 

[Aardverk]

Jesus was irrational so I think I stand in good company.

There are many here who would disagree with your description of Jesus.

 

[Grazer]

Jesus was a liberal and a radical compared to the Pharisees

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[Mike]

Aardverk, it is my observation that your statements declaring that you "know nothing" fly in the face of your many disagreements with scripture and our faith. It seems a way to offset the tools of the trade used to argue against Christianity. I would caution you to back down from your demeaning sarcasm directed at certain members. These don't serve to foster the impression that you are hear with honest intentions.

Terms of Service:
2.1: This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Please read: Statement of Faith

I believe it was Edward who referred to a tv show about biblical archeology. If I'm not mistaken, you are referring to "The Naked Archeologist". This was a very interesting documentary series! :yes

We should get back to the original topic and focus on evidence of OT events, places and people. I'll come back and provide some interesting findings in had saved a while ago when I have more time.

 

[Grazer]

It's said faith begins where evidence ends. I largely agree with this but some of us need to think our way through things and since were told to love God with all our mind, that suggests thinking is involved.

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[Rollo Tamasi]

It's said faith begins where evidence ends. I largely agree with this but some of us need to think our way through things and since were told to love God with all our mind, that suggests thinking is involved.

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Grazer, you clarified your point very well here. I agree with you.
The need for evidence differs from person to person.
Some only need to heard the word from another person to believe.
Some need only to look at creation to believe.
Some need the cold hard facts found in the Bible to believe.
A lawyer may only need to look at the many witnesses to Jesus to believe.
Some of us need evidence found in the Old Testament to believe it all.
But I believe once you've found enough evidence to believe in God and Jesus, the rest can be taken as true without more evidence.
Otherwise, you will always question your faith.

 

[stovebolts]

Grazer,
According to the writer of hebrews, abraham reasoned Isaac would be raised from the dead. That is a living faith as we serve a living God.

It is easy to get caught up in ll the intellectual high theology, but what it comes down to is that our faith is being lived out in our actions and deeds. Otherwise its just dead faith. When we look at the stories of the old testament, we see the faith of others, or the lack of faith from others being lived out. Saul was a man of little faith, and it showed by his blatent disobedience even when his intentions were good. David on the other hand was a man of great faith, yet still he stumbled. But when he stumbled, he knew where his faith resided, and it is from that place where David drew his strength.

 

[Grazer]

Grazer,
According to the writer of hebrews, abraham reasoned Isaac would be raised from the dead. That is a living faith as we serve a living God.

It is easy to get caught up in ll the intellectual high theology, but what it comes down to is that our faith is being lived out in our actions and deeds. Otherwise its just dead faith. When we look at the stories of the old testament, we see the faith of others, or the lack of faith from others being lived out. Saul was a man of little faith, and it showed by his blatent disobedience even when his intentions were good. David on the other hand was a man of great faith, yet still he stumbled. But when he stumbled, he knew where his faith resided, and it is from that place where David drew his strength.

Oh I agree, we need to act on our faith

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