What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Evolution The Other Religion 2013

Hatuey said:
Oh, I see. I guess it seems weird to me that god would design the bad-not-good?? process by which death takes place, when many Christians believe that all god created was "good."

Adam had the choice to join Eve in her fallen state or to continue with god but without his bride. I believe that most Christians do not think every person has the same choice Adam had since none of us were ever in that position with the fate of the universe resting on our uneducated (in "good and evil") decision.
Click to expand...

Where do you find in the scriptures where Adam had to make a choice to sin with Eve or be without her?
The fate of the universe rested on Adam's decision? Not hardly.

You see God very differently than I do. I see God as not only our creator but as a God that loves His creation.
Without moral laws there is chaos for all of creation. Are those laws not good? I don't see anything evil or evil intent in God's laws.

I'm won't post anymore for awhile. I encourage you to go to the actual scriptures, God's word.
 
Hatuey said:
Even if Christ's gift actually existed, I would not accept it because I would rather doubt my own reasoning than be a part of what I believe god enjoys in regards to eternal punishment.
Click to expand...
That's pretty dark, bro...
I would say the only way you can say something like that is because you have never been presented with the real Jesus, only a bunch of junk and lies about Him...there is also a world of difference between knowing about someone and actually knowing them. Just think about that with people, and then think about it with God.

God enjoys YOU, even as you are right now. That's why Jesus said God SO loved the WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but should inherit everlasting life, and that Jesus came not into the world to condemn it, but to SAVE it.

No matter how you slice it, God is only interested in your redemption, and He's already done it, so you might as well take it. It's free, though it cost God His life to get it to you. What are you waiting for?
 
Deborah13 said:
Where do you find in the scriptures where Adam had to make a choice to sin with Eve or be without her?
The fate of the universe rested on Adam's decision? Not hardly.

You see God very differently than I do. I see God as not only our creator but as a God that loves His creation.
Without moral laws there is chaos for all of creation. Are those laws not good? I don't see anything evil or evil intent in God's laws.

I'm won't post anymore for awhile. I encourage you to go to the actual scriptures, God's word.
Click to expand...


Eve had a new knowledge that Adam didn't have. He could join in her new knowledge or be in a different state.

Are you saying that the universe would have fallen into corruption regardless of Adam's choice? That doesn't sound like Christian doctrine, to me.

I don't see the point in discussing "god's laws" when there is so much disagreement about them among those who claim to know him. It just gets confusing for the unbeliever.

Sorry you are leaving for a while. I have read the bible many, many times and done much, much research concerning it. I'm familiar with its claims.
 
I used to read the Bible too Hatuey, before I ever knew Jesus - it was a different story after I received His free gift of salvation and came into fellowship with God the Father and had the Spirit of Jesus living inside my heart, breathing revelation into me as I read His Word.
 
TheCurseoftheRodain said:
That's pretty dark, bro...
I would say the only way you can say something like that is because you have never been presented with the real Jesus, only a bunch of junk and lies about Him...there is also a world of difference between knowing about someone and actually knowing them. Just think about that with people, and then think about it with God.

God enjoys YOU, even as you are right now. That's why Jesus said God SO loved the WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but should inherit everlasting life, and that Jesus came not into the world to condemn it, but to SAVE it.

No matter how you slice it, God is only interested in your redemption, and He's already done it, so you might as well take it. It's free, though it cost God His life to get it to you. What are you waiting for?
Click to expand...


I believe that a god who exists and IS GOOD would be completely fine with my evaluation of humanity's various interpretations of him and his character. If god exists and IS GOOD, then I am completely unafraid and at perfect peace with it and its decisions regarding me. If god exists and is not good, then it hardly matters what I think about him.

I have read the bible multiple times, and I do not find its god "good." I would rather doubt my own reasoning than believe in it.
 
Why would you come onto this forum, and you say you have read the Word many times, and engage in these discussions if you were not seeking God the whole time? It would be a waste of time for a natural man to come here and speak on these things if was not seeking God in the first place. I say that you are seeking Him...it would seem so...
 
TheCurseoftheRodain said:
I used to read the Bible too Hatuey, before I ever knew Jesus - it was a different story after I received His free gift of salvation and came into fellowship with God the Father and had the Spirit of Jesus living inside my heart, breathing revelation into me as I read His Word.
Click to expand...

I was a believer for most of my life. I lost my faith BECAUSE of an extended research project (decades long) concerning two biblical principles.
 
TheCurseoftheRodain said:
Why would you come onto this forum, and you say you have read the Word many times, and engage in these discussions if you were not seeking God the whole time? It would be a waste of time for a natural man to come here and speak on these things if was not seeking God in the first place. I say that you are seeking Him...it would seem so...
Click to expand...

I invite your best judgment and criticisms.
 
Hatuey said:
I believe that a god who exists and IS GOOD would be completely fine with my evaluation of humanity's various interpretations of him and his character. If god exists and IS GOOD, then I am completely unafraid and at perfect peace with it and its decisions regarding me. If god exists and is not good, then it hardly matters what I think about him.

I have read the bible multiple times, and I do not find its god "good." I would rather doubt my own reasoning than believe in it.
Click to expand...

I do not think you understand what a Covenant is. It is the reason why God destroyed people who came against His people in the Old Covenant. God is no respecter of persons, but of covenants. (to put this in perspective, if you are married, what will you do if someone even threatens to attack your wife? Destroy them if they try - you have no choice, you are in covenant with your wife - you would have to die before you would let someone harm her).

Abraham received God's judgements and grace (favor) through GRACE (unmerited favor) alone. There was no Law. On the cusp of going into the Promised Land God said I am ready to make you a nation of kings and priests, but then the people said whatever God wants us to do WE ARE WELL ABLE TO DO IT, and the implication in the original text is it a prideful statement, saying, yeah, we know we've been receiving according to grace (notice no one died or anything until that time, every time they complained or whatever, God poured out grace), but now, we are good enough to receive from you on our own goodness, so tell us what to do to earn it, and we can do it. So then they put themselves under the Law instead of God's grace which is what Abraham had.
Then God sent Jesus to redeem us and put us back under the same way that Abraham received: grace, no Law.
So God is actually VERY GOOD; Jesus fulfilled the Law FOR us, and now we receive according to whatever JESUS DESERVES, not according to what WE DESERVE, which is how Abraham and the Israelites (until their rejection of God's grace) received.
Glory to God!
 
Hatuey said:
Eve had a new knowledge that Adam didn't have. He could join in her new knowledge or be in a different state.

Are you saying that the universe would have fallen into corruption regardless of Adam's choice? That doesn't sound like Christian doctrine, to me.

I don't see the point in discussing "god's laws" when there is so much disagreement about them among those who claim to know him. It just gets confusing for the unbeliever.

Sorry you are leaving for a while. I have read the bible many, many times and done much, much research concerning it. I'm familiar with its claims.
Click to expand...

I'm saying that what Adam did brought corruption into this earth, not the universe.
And that God is in control of the universe, not man. And God is in control of this earth even though man continues in his corruption. Without God it would be so much worse.
 
Hatuey said:
I invite your best judgment and criticisms.
Click to expand...
I give you no criticism; how can I apply double jeopardy to you when all your sins (whatsoever is not of faith is sin, so that includes doubt, unbelief) have already been punished on Jesus' body at the cross?
Nothing is left brother but His grace! Come back to the table set before you, His love has not diminished one iota, His love has never left you. You are His beloved, His peculiar possession, His special boy, His wonderful son. You are the apple of His eye, and if YOU were the ONLY person to ever accept what Jesus has done, He would do it all again my brother. He LOVES you, YOU...still. He's never left.
 
TheCurseoftheRodain said:
I do not think you understand what a Covenant is. It is the reason why God destroyed people who came against His people in the Old Covenant. God is no respecter of persons, but of covenants. (to put this in perspective, if you are married, what will you do if someone even threatens to attack your wife? Destroy them if they try - you have no choice, you are in covenant with your wife - you would have to die before you would let someone harm her).

Abraham received God's judgements and grace (favor) through GRACE (unmerited favor) alone. There was no Law. On the cusp of going into the Promised Land God said I am ready to make you a nation of kings and priests, but then the people said whatever God wants us to do WE ARE WELL ABLE TO DO IT, and the implication in the original text is it a prideful statement, saying, yeah, we know we've been receiving according to grace (notice no one died or anything until that time, every time they complained or whatever, God poured out grace), but now, we are good enough to receive from you on our own goodness, so tell us what to do to earn it, and we can do it. So then they put themselves under the Law instead of God's grace which is what Abraham had.
Then God sent Jesus to redeem us and put us back under the same way that Abraham received: grace, no Law.
So God is actually VERY GOOD; Jesus fulfilled the Law FOR us, and now we receive according to whatever JESUS DESERVES, not according to what WE DESERVE, which is how Abraham and the Israelites (until their rejection of God's grace) received.
Glory to God!
Click to expand...


Your beliefs, now, are extremely similar to mine about twenty years ago. I can understand perfectly why you feel the way you do. I would certainly NOT recommend that you look into the logical arguments presented by those who oppose your perspective. As for my own perspective, the rules o this forum prohibit me from replying to your reaonsing, here.
 
Deborah13 said:
I'm saying that what Adam did brought corruption into this earth, not the universe.
And that God is in control of the universe, not man. And God is in control of this earth even though man continues in his corruption. Without God it would be so much worse.
Click to expand...

The universe is "running down" through the process of entropy. That is not "good," and it is the very definition of "order decomposing into chaos." I've never considered that the curse was limited to just one planet, and it doesn't make any sense, now.

The issue with your second sentence is that it sounds a lot like a mafia fella telling a restaurant owner that it could be much worse for similar reasons as you attribute to your god and corruption/grace. For it to become corrupted, god would have had to produce a mechanism by which the corruption would occur, which means he would have to have planned for the corruption to take place and overturn his "good" design. That seems extremely odd to me, and not the behavior of a deity I would respect.
 
TheCurseoftheRodain said:
I give you no criticism; how can I apply double jeopardy to you when all your sins (whatsoever is not of faith is sin, so that includes doubt, unbelief) have already been punished on Jesus' body at the cross?
Nothing is left brother but His grace! Come back to the table set before you, His love has not diminished one iota, His love has never left you. You are His beloved, His peculiar possession, His special boy, His wonderful son. You are the apple of His eye, and if YOU were the ONLY person to ever accept what Jesus has done, He would do it all again my brother. He LOVES you, YOU...still. He's never left.
Click to expand...

The problem, Curse, is that because of what I understand of biblegod's character, I don't want his love. I would certainly desire his love if I both believed he existed AND I judged his behavior to be truly "good."
 
I am 35 now, when I was 22 I considered myself and atheist; I did much research into all things related to faith. I went around trying to disprove Jesus' existence and God's. I tried to convince people they were of extraordinary stupidity to believe in God and Jesus. I was harsh.
One day the thought popped into my head that perhaps the reason I have never known God is because I never actually gave Him the chance.
So I went to church, thought it was all right, wasn't for me.
3 weeks later, through a series of circumstances, I found myself strongly desiring to go back, though I knew not what for, for I had never known anything about a personal relationship with God where you actually hear Him or feel Him.
So I went, and I surrendered myself to God, reaching out for Him during worship, though, again, I had no idea what I was doing. God's Holy Spirit came into the room like a flash flood of majesty and love. I burst into tears and crumpled to the floor, weeping in His presence. I did not need anyone to tell me He was there. I repented of wasting my life up to that point and apologized for my efforts to hurt others' faith in Him and Jesus. I had never known love like His. Nothing was even close.
It seemed to go on for a very long time. Later that night I had a dream with the Father and then another with Jesus Himself. 2 days later I committed to follow Jesus forever, and I was saved.

My grandfather, who was an atheist until about 2 hours before he died and went to Heaven, praise God, had similar things to say when I first tried to bring him to Christ, trusting in man's arguments and unwilling to let God show him the Truth. But in the end, He received Jesus.

Why waste your life in some lie, why not give the Father the chance to answer your questions somehow. Saying, "Father, I return to you, and there are some questions I have, things that on the surface don't seem to add up, but I know You are the Truth, so please lead me into having these questions answered, and I believe I receive the answers now in Jesus' name, thank You."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top