ex pre-tribulation rapture Christians?

[reba]

I dont much care for the extremes in any direction. The extreme plucking of scripture makes me nuts.

I don't believe God left us a Book we can't simply understand. Mankind has made the Scriptures look difficult, most often so they can make a buck.

 

[Stormcrow]

I dont much care for the extremes in any direction. The extreme plucking of scripture makes me nuts.

I don't believe God left us a Book we can't simply understand. Mankind has made the Scriptures look difficult, most often so they can make a buck.

Agreed!

 

[jasoncran]

I dont much care for the extremes in any direction. The extreme plucking of scripture makes me nuts.

I don't believe God left us a Book we can't simply understand. Mankind has made the Scriptures look difficult, most often so they can make a buck.

i dont think its like that reba, but look at how the disciples misunderstood the coming of the messiah the first time and how they didnt understand his teachings.

if the bible was so easy to understand that if one read it only once. why then would we have to read it again and again and still get stuff out of it?

its alive via the holy spirit.

i dont understand the trinity, the cross and how and why God choose that, but i believe it. Nor would you understand without being like christ empowered or myself why God calls homosexuality an abonomation.


we arent always called to understand these things but to believe it. however, i do agree that we men make doctrines harder then they are.

 

[warhorse]

i was unaware that pretrib version two style of salavation is still part of the plan of salvation.

i rarely hear that now. given that i may leave my church over that.

Relax most in your church have no understanding of the fundementls of pre-trib.

 

[jasoncran]

Relax most in your church have no understanding of the fundementls of pre-trib.

i noticed. i can ask them and they dont have a clue. its sad. at least know the side that your pastor leans.most hardly read the bible if they do. they are like well revalation is too hard. well then ask God to show and pray and talk to the pastor!

 

[reba]

Pretrib

You were asked to leave links and shorten your posts. Copy and paste posts of this length are not conducive to discussion.

Originally Posted by Vic C.
This is NOT the place to post essays. Please refrain from the multiple postings. It makes it hard for anyone to respond and get a word in edgewise.
Do not ignore the Admin

 

[Sinthesis]

I dont much care for the extremes in any direction. The extreme plucking of scripture makes me nuts.

I don't believe God left us a Book we can't simply understand. Mankind has made the Scriptures look difficult, most often so they can make a buck.

I don't know that it is greed that fuels scriptural misunderstanding and misapplication so often as it is the temptation to feed people's sub-conscience vanity. It's very tempting to think of yourself or group as special in a way that flatters you rather than God.

 

[n2thelight]

Yup. One day Jesus is gonna come and pick us up to be with Him, and until that day I will keep on wondering what the heck the differences between a pre- and a post- tribber is, and also wondering why it even matters. 'cause even if you are wrong you still win!!!

It matters because if you don't know you stand a very good chance of being deceived when satan comes to earth pretending to be Christ......

 

[n2thelight]

Jesus Christ comes for ALL God's children, the blessed and the self damned, all at the same time, at the seventh trump "we shall all be changed" {1 Cor 15:51}, at the Second Advent out of the only two Advents witnessed to in Scripture:

1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep [die prior to Second Advent], but we shall all be changed [ALL those alive at the Second Advent],
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump [the seventh, when Christ returns at his Second Advent]: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible [in our spiritual bodies, not rotting to dust like our flesh bodies do - they 'corrupt'], and we shall be changed. (KJV)

There are only two Advents witnessed to in Scripture {Zech 9:9 (First Advent); Zech 9:10 (Second Advent)}. This is also why Jesus, when reading from the book of Isaiah in the Synagogue in {Lk 4:17-21} had to stop reading at the middle of verse {Isa 61:2} when He was reading the Scripture that spoke of Him, because the words that came after "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord" would not be fulfilled until His Second Advent:

Luke 4:17-21
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. (KJV)

Below is the Scripture Christ was referring to, the words in blue bold are the words that He could not finish reading to them at that time and still have been able to say that: "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears" because it will not be fulfilled until the Second Advent:

Isa 61:1-3
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. (KJV)

There is no selective taking out, no partial Second Advent , no pre-second ''Advent'' Advent, not three Advents but only two, and the Bible declares the same.

The Second Advent with Armageddon at that moment & ALL changed to spiritual bodies (still not judged) - man NEVER again in the flesh body.

Then the 1000 year Millennium teaching time {Rev 20:1-6}.


Then satan loosed a little while to test those taught in Millennium {Rev 20:7-8}.

Then God destroys those who follow satan after the Millennium, satan cast into Lake of Fire (commonly referred to as Hell) {Rev 20:9-10}.


Then Judgment Day {Rev 20:11-13}.

Then all that offend destroyed in Lake of Fire (commonly referred to as Hell) {Rev 20:13-15}.


Then the Heaven Age - eternal {Rev 21:1-end of Bible} (till the end time which never ends).

 

[jasoncran]

why then did jesus say to the apostles its not for you to know the seasons and times in reference to isreal?

we have hints of things but nothig specefic. so spend yrs looking for the ac vs winning souls is the way?

 

[n2thelight]

why then did jesus say to the apostles its not for you to know the seasons and times in reference to isreal?

we have hints of things but nothig specefic. so spend yrs looking for the ac vs winning souls is the way?

No one knows the day but we are to know the season....As far as winning souls,yes,that is first and foremost the job of a Christian,however,what happens after that?The new Christians should be taught,comes a time when one needs to get off the milk and get into the meat of our Father's Word....


The fact of the matter is that, satan shall,not might,come to this earth pretending to be Christ and it will be the greatest deception in the history of mankind,as it is written,the WHOLE world shall wonder after him....

We are in that point in history where we shall,contrary to what people may think,see this happen,we are for a fact,the generation that Christ spoke of,thats why its so very important....

Do you know why Christ said,pray ye are not with child when he returns?

II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."


If a woman has been unfaithful, and is with child, how could she expect that she could be accepted by the man she was espoused to, when she is carrying another man's child? Paul is afraid that they will be taken by the wrong christ, or Satan the Antichrist [the instead of Christ]. Then when Jesus Christ returns at the seventh trumpet, they will be found unworthy to be part of "the bride of Christ".

Matthew 24:19; "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!" He was not referring to a mother with a child in her womb, but spiritually speaking, Christians that have given themselves over to the wrong husband. In ignorance they will have been deceived into climbing into the spiritual bed of Satan, and their hearts have been given over to the Satan.

If you are one of the whores of Satan, than you cannot be one of the virgins of Christ waiting with your lamps full of oil [which is the truth from God's Word] that is waiting for the coming of the bridegroom, which is Jesus Christ. Paul now is putting it into a language that most anyone can understand. Paul is saying; "I'm afraid that one of these false teachers is going to seduce you

 

[n2thelight]

In [FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]Hebrews 4:3-11[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York], the Apostle Paul explained that the seventh day Sabbath pictures the wonderful era of peace and rest that follows this current age of God's grace. The Apostle John was inspired to write that this coming era, beginning with Christ's return to set up His kingdom, will last 1,000 years [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York](Rev. 20:1-4)[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York] - a time we simply call the Millennium.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]As the seventh day represents a 1,000 year period in God's plan, it follows that the previous six days of the week also represent 1,000 year periods. The Apostle Paul brought our attention to this principle in discussing the anticipation of Christ's return: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York](2 Peter 3:8)[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]God rested after 6 days of re-creation -Things were right - a 6000 year period - a day is as a thousand years - and a thousand years is as a day. Starting a 4004 BC, after 4 days or 4000 years - you are at or about the year 1 AD. The first coming of Jesus Christ. Then there are 2 more days or 2,000 years - from the time that Jesus came - until we come up to 2000 AD. Then we will come into that seventh day, that 1,000 year Millennial kingdom ruled by Christ in person! it will be wonderful.[/FONT]

Is there any indication Biblically that this would hold true?
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]We read in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York](Hosea 6:1-2)[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York] in speaking of God's working with the Jewish people He says this:[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York] " Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn us and he will heal us; he hath smitten us, and he will bind us up. After [two days] will he revive us: in the [third day] he will raise us up, and then we shall live in his sight."[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York].[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]Speaking of the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]"End Times"[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York] here in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York](Hosea 6:1-2)[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]. For [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]two days[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York] they are going to be torn. The Jewish people are going to go through hard, tearing difficult times. But on the third day - the day of resurrection - on the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]third day[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York] - that seventh millennium - that year that begins somewhere in and around or somewhere just after 2000 AD - on the third day - we will be revived. Israel shall be fully restored when Jesus rules and reigns from Jerusalem.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]Then its the millennium. That one day - the seventh day, that one thousand year reign of Christ. When he sets up His Kingdom here on earth. It centers around Jesus who reigns in Jerusalem and Israel becomes the most important nation once again. Interesting - it maps out perfectly - 4004 BC. Then 4 days later, if a day is as a thousand years - Jesus comes to earth as a child grows up, is rejected and is killed. He rises again and returns to heaven. And for the next two days or two thousand years Israel, that is the Jews, suffer greatly until they are restored to the own land once again.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]Israel is torn because they rejected Him at His first coming. We will not have this man rule over us. Thus Jesus told them that they would go through desolation and destruction because they rejected Him [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York][speaking of the cursing of the fig tree].[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]For[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York] two days[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York] or two thousand years, they are going to be torn - and smitten - but on the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]third day[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York] - that day somewhere in and around or somewhere just after the year 2000 AD. And for the next thousand years - that millennium - that seventh period of time - they will be fully revived and indeed they will - this is thrilling.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]This concept was well known amongst the Jews of the apostle Peter's day. About 200 years before Christ, Rabbi Elias wrote; [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]"The world endures six thousand years: two thousand years before the law, two thousand years under the law, and two thousand years under Messiah's (grace) " [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]Then the Millennium reign of the Messiah will begin.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York] ("Millennium," Adama Books, 1986, p.263)[/FONT]​

 

[Stormcrow]

No one knows the day but we are to know the season....As far as winning souls,yes,that is first and foremost the job of a Christian,however,what happens after that?The new Christians should be taught,comes a time when one needs to get off the milk and get into the meat of our Father's Word....

The fact of the matter is that, satan shall,not might,come to this earth pretending to be Christ and it will be the greatest deception in the history of mankind,as it is written,the WHOLE world shall wonder after him....

Utter nonsense.

We are in that point in history where we shall,contrary to what people may think,see this happen,we are for a fact,the generation that Christ spoke of,thats why its so very important....

More utter nonsense.

Do you know why Christ said,pray ye are not with child when he returns?

II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

If a woman has been unfaithful, and is with child, how could she expect that she could be accepted by the man she was espoused to, when she is carrying another man's child? Paul is afraid that they will be taken by the wrong christ, or Satan the Antichrist [the instead of Christ]. Then when Jesus Christ returns at the seventh trumpet, they will be found unworthy to be part of "the bride of Christ".

This is so taken out of context it boggles the mind!!! What Christ said in Matthew 24 has NOTHING to do with what Paul wrote in II Corinthians!!! And it's utter nonsense, as well!!!

Matthew 24:19; "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!" He was not referring to a mother with a child in her womb, but spiritually speaking, Christians that have given themselves over to the wrong husband. In ignorance they will have been deceived into climbing into the spiritual bed of Satan, and their hearts have been given over to the Satan.

If you are one of the whores of Satan, than you cannot be one of the virgins of Christ waiting with your lamps full of oil [which is the truth from God's Word] that is waiting for the coming of the bridegroom, which is Jesus Christ. Paul now is putting it into a language that most anyone can understand. Paul is saying; "I'm afraid that one of these false teachers is going to seduce you

And I thought watching cattle being butchered was disgusting! 2

 

[Sinthesis]

And I thought watching cattle being butchered was disgusting! 2

You'd never make it as a Levite.:swords

 

[jasoncran]

uh, well if christ came this second in that verse on matthew 24. that would mean i would have to be in jerusalem. and pray the journey be on the sabbath? i think that meant ad 70 for the most part.

i'm not a present going to live in jerusalem. flee to the mountians where shall i flee if one lives in the bahamas? florida?

 

[Stormcrow]

uh, well if christ came this second in that verse on matthew 24. that would mean i would have to be in jerusalem. and pray the journey be on the sabbath? i think that meant ad 70 for the most part.

i'm not a present going to live in jerusalem. flee to the mountians where shall i flee if one lives in the bahamas? florida?

Now you're starting to get it.

 

[jasoncran]

sadly, i listen to dr.david jeremiah and he mentioned matthew 24 and that verse that n2thelight mentions and says that part fleeing and hiding to the mountains and when ye see jerusalem surrounded by her enemies her desolation draweth nigh..was fulfilled in ad 70.

and he is .... PRE-TRIBBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Vic C.]

sadly, i listen to dr.david jeremiah and he mentioned matthew 24 and that verse that n2thelight mentions and says that part fleeing and hiding to the mountains and when ye see jerusalem surrounded by her enemies her desolation draweth nigh..was fulfilled in ad 70.

and he is .... PRE-TRIBBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, he is a pre-tribber, but he at least got that right. :yes

 

[Stormcrow]

"And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!" He was not referring to a mother with a child in her womb, but spiritually speaking, Christians that have given themselves over to the wrong husband.

No. He was talking about this:

There was a certain woman that dwelt beyond Jordan, her name was Mary…She was eminent for her family and her wealth, and had fled away to Jerusalem with the rest of the multitude, and was with them besieged therein at this time…it was now become impossible for her any way to find any more food, while the famine pierced through her very bowels and marrow, when also her passion was fired to a degree beyond the famine itself…

She then attempted a most unnatural thing; and snatching up her son, who was a child sucking at her breast, she said, "O thou miserable infant! for whom shall I preserve thee in this war, this famine, and this sedition? As to the war with the Romans, if they preserve our lives, we must be slaves. This famine also will destroy us, even before that slavery comes upon us. Yet are these seditious rogues more terrible than both the other.

Come on; be thou my food, and be thou a fury to these seditious varlets, and a by-word to the world, which is all that is now wanting to complete the calamities of us Jews." As soon as she had said this, she slew her son, and then roasted him, and ate the one half of him, and kept the other half by her concealed. Upon this the seditious came in presently, and smelling the horrid scent of this food, they threatened her that they would cut her throat immediately if she did not show them what food she had gotten ready.

The Works of Flavius Josephus.

People who dismiss 70 AD as just a "little war" have absolutely no understanding of how terrible - what a great tribulation - it was.

And now you know why Jesus wept over Jerusalem.

 

[warhorse]

No. He was talking about this:

People who dismiss 70 AD as just a "little war" have absolutely no understanding of how terrible - what a great tribulation - it was.

And now you know why Jesus wept over Jerusalem.

I dont think anyone argues that 70ad wasnt a horrid event, i argue that the tribuation that began at that time is not yet ended. 47 million christians have been martered since then, as have millions of more Jews during the diaspora since 70ad.
Rev 12v17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.