"exposing" popular Christian teachers/preachers

[eddif]

The parable of the tares.

You can identify the tares, but to start ripping them out before the harvest will cause problems. In post 68 Eugene got pretty close to the correct understanding. People with wrong motives sometimes say the truth in spite of themselves (he said the truth be preached).

Others say the wrong things but quote scripture that is correct; in spite of their general ignorance. Public reading of scripture often leads to a sudden revelation that has little to do with what the speaker is saying. To rip out a tare will just about destroy some of God 's folks.

One time I heard a pastor preach the same messed up sermon (once a year for 6 years ). I complained (most of it silently for 4 years).
All of a sudden Isaiah 6 unfolded in my mind ( the text came alive). What I heard was the scripture and not the sermon. I repented on the spot.

Do not be too quick to throw away everyone. God speaks in spite of the tares. I am always one post away from making a wrong statement myself. Nurture the wheat as you are able. Trust God that at harvest time, that his planting will shine forth.

The jerk from Mississippi

eddif

 

[th1b.taylor]

Ever noticed how every popular Christian teacher's life and doctrine are put under the microscope? Sometimes, I guess its good...gotta spot wolves in sheep's clothing...but sometimes...I wonder...

...do you think there's something about the Christian community (particularly Protestants) that drives this behavior?

Yes, there are a few holy (set apart) people within the protestant, the Greek Orthodox and the Catholic Churches. One of these does not appear to be the modern day Popes but regardless, these folks have chosen the "straight path" and Father God, His Son and the Holy Spirit uses the people to filter the church Universal.

These folks are easy to pick out and they are, generally, despised. they are some times talking the talk but they are, most commonly walking the walk, all in the Spirit. The average person in any assembly of worshipers will point the people out and tag them better than thou or self righteous in an effort to dismiss their lives into nothingness.

The issue most often expressed is disbelief that anyone can live that way, without error. That is, of course true, noone can live that life... until they surrender every aspect of their lives to the King. When this point of submission is reached, the Holy spirit takes over and this Christian, true follower of God, there is still failure, from time to time.

When these sporadic failures of regressions occur there is good reason and it is not doubt. Every saved man, woman and child has a thorn in the flesh they must deal with as long as Satan rules this world, the old man. My clearest metaphor for this condition comes from a punishment used in some states of the Roman Empire. When a man was caught very soon after a murder and there were credible witness' and the offender was caught, very quickly, the dead man was tied or strapped to the offender's back to rot and in doing so, to kill him... poetic justice without any poetry. We, every one of us are influenced, by Satan, through the person we once were.

These folks are always quick to repent and the lost man, Churched or not, never forgives.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I just wonder. I mean, I'm new at this. I can see criticism of Joyce Meyers, Joel Osteen, some of the Calvinists (I can see why some people criticize RC Sproul, for instance), but...Billy Graham?!?! I mean, when and where does it stop?

 

[th1b.taylor]

A list of the most dangerous false teachers in America
1. Paul Crouch
2. Pat Robertson
3. Rick Warren
4. Chuck Smith
5. Benny Hinn
6. Robert Schuller
7. Oral Roberts
8. James Swaggart
9. Joel Osteen
10. John Hagee

Okay Kathi,
You have been trashing me every time I try to point men and women out that belong on this list so, please, explain your method of measure to me.

 

[Willie T]

I just wonder. I mean, I'm new at this. I can see criticism of Joyce Meyers, Joel Osteen, some of the Calvinists (I can see why some people criticize RC Sproul, for instance), but...Billy Graham?!?! I mean, when and where does it stop?[/QUOTE]

It doesn't. We will always disparage people who don't think as we do.... it seems to be a human failing.

 

[jeff77]

Concerning false teachers....none of the ones on that list to my knowledge have been proven to be teaching something false on purpose (like they know the truth but teach a lie). I guess it's possible that some secretly teach something false on purpose in order to make money. So unless one of them comes forward and says "I have been preaching a false gospel in order to get more followers and I need to repent" then how do we know for sure if they are really false teachers?

 

[th1b.taylor]

If a teacher makes one false statement, does that make them a false teacher?

WIP,
Just my stab in the dark but not in my book, in that case I would be a false teacher instead of one learning from his errors. The measure I use is best illustrated through the ministries of Benny Hinn and Warren. Warren is an easy one because he continually professes there are many paths to Heaven and Hinn, as it has been covered by the secular media, Fox and others has and continues to rip people off by lying to them to steal their money for his personal gain. But that's just me.

One of the best Pastor/Teacher's I ever knew (he's passed over) had two sons that entered the ministry. One has been on the Field in Honduras and now pastors a Church in East Texas, the other has had his license removed for stealing all the money of the assembly that called him. One is, rather obviously, following God but the other is not lost because of his dishonesty, he is in need of repentance and is worthy of our prayers. If his fruit remains rotten, he might just be lost.

 

[reba]

Should we (The Body) be watching these guys YES we should ... we should hold them accountable, like it or not the world looks at the 'notable ones' and get the idea they speak for Christians.......

Hinn and his 9 Gods or Spirits ( i don't remember which it was) I heard him say Jesus was going to be on stage with him... i was sickened by the attitude that Jesus was going to be on stage with Benny isnt Jesus lucky ... His statements that that the Holy Spirit told him personally a few things the death of the homosexual community was only one... His personal life does not look christian to me...
What i have 'heard' him say has been via his TV shows .... tapes can be edited...

Crouch got himself into a ugly mess covering up sins financal and sexaul....

Swaggart we know what he did ... getting busted is not the same as repenting... but we can repent after being busted... I would not trust him with my daughter.
The church is take care of the widows not live the high life off them.

Roberts claimed God showed/told him personally he (roberts) would find a cure for cancer... this was not from God as it did not happen... he also lived a lavish life style off many widows...

Hagee ran off with his way younger secretary ( or some other employee)

1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
1Ti 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
1Ti 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 3:14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Am i perfect NO none of us are .... Is there forgiveness in Christ for sure...

Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

 

[eddif]

There are two different formats of the Word of God, both of which are designed to give you the advantage in life. First, there is the "Logos" written Word of God, which is found in the Bible. The second is the "Rhema", or spoken Word of God, that takes place when God speaks directly to you. In the Bible, the Greek translation for rhema is “God’s Word revealed.”

In Matthew 16:13-19, we see an example of someone receiving revealed knowledge from the Father:
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I also say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

God wants to reveal things to you, things that will put you in a position to win. There can’t be a personal breakthrough in your life until you hear the rhema, or spoken word from God. This is actually what makes the difference between two people who both read the same scriptures but get different results. One person heard the voice behind the written Word for them, and the other one did not. The successful Christian life is all about positioning yourself to hear from grace and receive revelation knowledge that comes directly from the Father.

I think I will stick up for you to some extent. I need a good thrashing ( Jesus bore stripes for me),

I doubt any of us never make a mistake, and so I choose not to get into absolute nit picking. There are several general things.

IMHO part of the problem stems from :
Isaiah 28:11
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

You have to realize that Greek is considered a foreign language ( if god really wanted to speak He would use Hebrew). The fullness of Greek Is considered to be a donkey speaking.

Greek has a lot of hidden meaning like Hebrew, but it is considered gentile.

God never changes. No he does not. God is a god of declarations. The problem arises when sin causes a new declaration to be needed. Blessing one moment, but all of a sudden the curse arises . The old covenant then a new covenant. I believe in using the law lawfully.

So combine a new language with a new covenant and it gets tough. Best to look for OT prophecy and ease into a change. I am probably no good example.

All the spirituals taught the Gentiles, have a Jewish background. The Jews have advantages. The Jews are the keepers of the oracles of God.

The one new man includes everyone. God spoke by prophets and then through his Son .

Peace to those near and those far off . May we all
not offend: Jews , Greeks , bond , free , weak , strong, male , female , church of God etc.

eddif

 

[Gary]

Ephesians 5
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

.

 

[Kathi]

Okay Kathi,
You have been trashing me every time I try to point men and women out that belong on this list so, please, explain your method of measure to me.

I have not been "trashing" you.Isn't that a very negative word to use for your fellow Christian sister?

 

[reba]

Rom_10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col_3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I have not been "trashing" you.Isn't that a very negative word to use for your fellow Christian sister?

Kathi, please answer the question, this is no a fight.

 

[jasonc]

food for thought

Let there be no doubt but that Dispensationalism does teach the re-establishment of Judaism following the Church age. Lewis Sperry Chafer, late President of Dallas Theological Seminary, says that after the Church age has run its course there is to be. ‘the regathering of Israel and the restoration of Judaism’ (Dispensationalism, p. 40). And Merrill F. Unger, also of Dallas Theological Seminary, says; ‘At the second advent Christ will restore the Judaistic system with far greater glory and spirituality than it ever had in the Old Testament period until its complete dissipation with the destruction of Herod’s temple in 70 A. D. The heart and center of re-established Judaism will be the millennial temple, in connection with which Judaism will enjoy its final state of development’ ( Bibliotheca Sacra, Jan.-March, 1960).



Only to a literalist does the re-establishment of the sacrificial system and temple ritual seem sensible. To a Post- or Amillennialist it is too materialistic. Premillennial logic, however, does not permit these sacrifices to be ‘spiritualized.’ To do so would remove a cornerstone from the system, and, if consistently carried out would lead straight to conclusions that they are most anxious to avoid.



http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/e...ament-sacrificial-system-by-loraine-boettner/

http://books.google.com/books?id=4Z... teach literal millennial sacrifices&f=false

dts is still around and teaching this. I personally know a man who went to them and teaches that.

 

[iLOVE]

Should we (The Body) be watching these guys YES we should ... we should hold them accountable, like it or not the world looks at the 'notable ones' and get the idea they speak for Christians.......

Hinn and his 9 Gods or Spirits ( i don't remember which it was) I heard him say Jesus was going to be on stage with him... i was sickened by the attitude that Jesus was going to be on stage with Benny isnt Jesus lucky ... His statements that that the Holy Spirit told him personally a few things the death of the homosexual community was only one... His personal life does not look christian to me...
What i have 'heard' him say has been via his TV shows .... tapes can be edited...

Crouch got himself into a ugly mess covering up sins financal and sexaul....

Swaggart we know what he did ... getting busted is not the same as repenting... but we can repent after being busted... I would not trust him with my daughter.
The church is take care of the widows not live the high life off them.

Roberts claimed God showed/told him personally he (roberts) would find a cure for cancer... this was not from God as it did not happen... he also lived a lavish life style off many widows...

Hagee ran off with his way younger secretary ( or some other employee)

1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
1Ti 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
1Ti 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 3:14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Am i perfect NO none of us are .... Is there forgiveness in Christ for sure...

Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

Proverbs 24:16-18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again,
But the wicked stumble in time of calamity.
17 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls,
And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles;
18 Or the Lord will see it and [a]be displeased,
And turn His anger away from him.

 

[reba]

Proverbs 24:16-18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again,
But the wicked stumble in time of calamity.
17 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls,
And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles;
18 Or the Lord will see it and [a]be displeased,
And turn His anger away from him.

Agreed

 

[Pizza]

Even Billy Graham's name was on the list!

Obviously a list that should be ignored, then.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Obviously a list that should be ignored, then.

LOL, I like that approach! There is a flip side to where this string has gone. Often I am rebuked for using the discernment my Lord has given me by marking teaching in the name of Jesus that is not from the scriptures. In this string, it appears that many are like myself about the Mega-Church Movement but, in truth, not all of it is bad. This morning, I am trying to puke again, so I have gone to Church on my TV. Thus far I have worshipped with Jentzen Franklin, Michael Youssef and bow Charles Stanley is on, preaching.

The camera, clearly, shows huge assemblies of people in attendance, ¿mega Churches? Are these three Teachers heretics? Charles Stanley is a divorced Baptist and we all know my choice of denomination s strict on our Teachers being a man of one wife and yet Brother Stanley still leads the Church in Alabama. In Charles' case he is still, as nearly as I can see, a man of one wife and he did not, it is reported, guilty of the divorce... she divorced him and as far as I can tell, he has become celibate.

Where in the world is he going some are asking by this point... every monster assembly is not in spite of the Word of God. In all truthfulness, mega Church movements are taught in the Bible. (Acts 2:41) Peter preached and three thousand were added in one day to their number. Not only that, when Jesus was instructed, imagine that, that a man not following Him was teaching the Gospel truth. The disciples wanted to tear down his ministry but Jesus instructed them to let him be because he, through his error was leading some to salvation by repentance resulting in changed lives.

As much as I disapprove of false teachers, if they inspire some to seek God and the truth of God through the Bible, it, just, proves that all things work together for the good of the believers. That brings the question to the forefront, "Should we remove these churches and these heretical teaches, such as Saddle Back's Pastor Warren?"

 

[Eugene]

Where do we draw lines concerning our brethren?

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Even Paul had a man caught with his father's wife returned to fellowship in 2 Cor 2:
6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.

7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

 

[follower]

.......
As much as I disapprove of false teachers, if they inspire some to seek God and the truth of God through the Bible, it, just, proves that all things work together for the good of the believers. That brings the question to the forefront, "Should we remove these churches and these heretical teaches, such as Saddle Back's Pastor Warren?"

but if they lock people out of the kingdom - if those who seek Yhwh's Kingdom are being blocked/hindered/distracted by or to "another Gospel".....

a good way to test is by Scripture - a few posters have posted what some teachers are teaching contrary to truth and grace. test everything. Scripture is the Standard.

Also, be a little 'bolder', in Scripture, with Scripture, in constant prayer and testing >>
If 'listening' to any of the televised guys, Find out what if any Scripture the teachers fail at, preach against, teach contrary to truth..... test everything by Scripture --- see what others say >>
try web search like this >>

terms: 'proof of David Wilkerson's apostasy' ..... results - good for David.

terms: 'proof of blly grhms apstasy' .... .... ..... .results, a surprise for most - good for the seeker of truth(if followed through)

don't rely on one or two or three search results. see which ones address Scripture, no matter what your previous misconceptions and feelings were(yes, be ready to be surprised).