Bible Study FAITH, And the Knowledge of God's Righteousness

[ezrider]

You cannot "strip out God."
God IS and there is no escape from that reality.
Nature without God is not a reality.
So considering such a scenario is nonsense.
And, therefore you question: "What offense does it give TO YOU that you should judge it evil?" is irrelevant. There is no correlation to your imaginary situation in reality.
Your question is the babbling of one who has lost tough with reality.

God said it is evil.
That's all you need to know.

There is no correlation to you because the question was not intended for you. You were not part of this conversation between wondering and myself. But there is wisdom at the end of that question, but only for those who would seek it, and have the courage to answer it, for THEMSELVES.

 

[Roro1972]

then I would see that not every member of a species is required to procreate in order for the species to survive.

Can you explain how these two Males will procreate, as you suggest they will survive

 

[ezrider]

Can you explain how these two Males will procreate, as you suggest they will survive

Again, this is not the topic of the thread, and that is not what I suggested by my comment. Of course two males can not procreate. But because two out of hundreds or thousands don't procreate, does not mean the species will not survive

 

[GodsGrace]

There is a logical conclusion if you would play along. Yes, in a vacuum. You are the judge. How do you rule upon the hypothetical?

They say answering hypothetical questions gets you into trouble.
But I'll trust you and play along. See where this goes... (probably no place good!!)

(Okay. So the proverbial tree falls in the forest and there's no one to hear it.
It still makes a noise.
It's just that it's not relevant to anything.)

The two engage. No one is around, not even God.
No harm done.
It's just that it's not relevant to anything.

Your turn.

Wondering

 

[Jim Parker]

They say answering hypothetical questions gets you into trouble.

Posing hypothetical questions is a method of loading a discussion in your favor.
By employing it, I "hypothetically" exclude any basis by which you might refute my argument.
One cannot arrive at a valid and logical conclusion when the premises on which the discussion is based are faulty.
So, a discussion that starts with something like, "Suppose there were no God..." is going nowhere because the IS a God.

 

[ezrider]

They say answering hypothetical questions gets you into trouble.
But I'll trust you and play along. See where this goes... (probably no place good!!)

Oh, it's all good.

The two engage. No one is around, not even God.
No harm done.
It's just that it's not relevant to anything.


Your turn.

You might think it is not relevant to anything, but I would tell you that it is relevant to everything. So if you will, I will explain. In asking you to leave God out of it, and by asking you to leave out the influences put upon by religion and society, I have asked you look at the situation in a vacuum. And in that vacuum, you revealed the law that is written upon your heart by faith. By Faith, what is written upon your heart, you have judged as "No harm done." Therefore, in the absence of the knowledge of the law of sin, by following what was in your heart, you did not find it evil: you found it to be, as you said, no harm done.

Which brings us back to the subject of the OP. We either walk in obedience unto Faith, or we walk in obedience to the law and our knowledge of sin. By the knowledge of the law, you wanted to say it was evil, but by faith in the absence of the law, you said no harm done. With this understanding, by faith, and by what is written in your heart, then you are free to extend the Grace and Mercy of the Lord, that the knowledge of sin and evil would seek to prevent.

By FAITH, I too would say, no harm done. IF it be EVIL, then that is reserved for the Lord Almighty Himself to judge.

 

[smaller]

Which brings us back to the subject of the OP. We either walk in obedience unto Faith, or we walk in obedience to the law and our knowledge of sin.

The either or scenario above quickly falls apart in the face of scriptural reality.

Scriptural reality and our respective realities quickly prove BOTH are true. It's never one way or the other. The law of sin is a functioning reality just as the law of gravity is likewise.

Sometimes the questions of either/or are simply suspect on the surface.
Such as we either have daylight all the time or we only have darkness. The fact is we have both so the either/or is a phony setup from the start.

In practical terms how then does this apply to us as believers? There is no either/or relationship.

Here is the reality picture of the law of sin found in Romans 7:7-25 and into Romans 8:3:

Romans 11:
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

There are 3 parties in the above. God, the "spirit of disobedience" and the person(s).

If we have a good foundation of the structure then we can form more legitimate questions. Such as, is the spirit of disobedience EVER obedient? The answer is pretty obvious. NO! Just as sin indwelling the flesh and evil present with us is never legal, obedient, faithful, under Grace or the recipient of Mercy.

The Spirit IS and remains in factual contentions with those workings of indwelling sin, evil present, the spirit of disobedience, and IS and will remain against those workings.

And when we claim not to have these issues we are not in truth and have in fact been deceived by those workings.

Not all is as easy as either/or.

 

[ezrider]

The either or scenario above quickly falls apart in the face of scriptural reality.

Honestly, I do not know how you could make that statement. Either you have not paid attention to the scriptures that I have posted in this thread, Or else you just continue to ignore the content of what is said and look for only what you want to see. From my comment that you responded to, you highlighted the words "either' and "or" but conveniently ignored the context of "obedience."

You then go on to say that this fall apart under scriptural reality, when in fact the scriptures establish the spiritual reality of this dilema. There is no escaping it. You either walk according to faith unto obedience to Righteousness, Or else you walk under the law of sin unto condemnation.

Romans 6:16-19
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

You see, Paul says we have been the servants of sin, BUT we are now FREE from sin, so that we might go on to become servants of Righteousness. We can not serve both. It's either/ or. In fact, Peter also confirms this confirms this spiritual reality in the scriptures.

2 Peter 2:19
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

Scriptural reality and our respective realities quickly prove BOTH are true. It's never one way or the other. The law of sin is a functioning reality just as the law of gravity is likewise.

Yes in deed. Both are true. The Law of Sin and death, the knowledge of good and evil has its working unto death. That is a spiritual reality identified in the scriptures. But so too is the justification by Faith unto Righteousness, though it's working is of the Spirit unto Life. The Reality is, you have two paths that you can choose from. You can choose the path that enters in by the broad way, OR, you can choose the path that enters in by the narrow way. You can not walk both paths and enter in by the same gate. The scriptures make this reality pretty clear. Obedience to the law of sin leads to death. Obedience to Faith in Christ leads to life. It is either/or. On path leads you to the resurrection of damnation, the other path to the resurrection of life everlasting.

But this is nothing new. The story is as old as the garden. As long as you hold to the knowledge of good and evil, while denying your own death, then you shall remain cut off from the tree of life.

Sometimes the questions of either/or are simply suspect on the surface.
Such as we either have daylight all the time or we only have darkness. The fact is we have both so the either/or is a phony setup from the start.

While there is no denying that both are applicable, we find that one way serves the flesh, while the other way seeks after the Spirit. Paul in his writing goes to great lengths to expound on this, especially in the book of Romans, so the only phony setup from the start must be yours.

Peter has testified to this reality. Paul has testified to this reality. And yes, Jesus also testified to this reality when he said you cannot serve God and mammon both.

.

 

[Roro1972]

Honestly, I do not know how you could make that statement. Either you have not paid attention to the scriptures that I have posted in this thread, Or else you just continue to ignore the content of what is said and look for only what you want to see. From my comment that you responded to, you highlighted the words "either' and "or" but conveniently ignored the context of "obedience."

You then go on to say that this fall apart under scriptural reality, when in fact the scriptures establish the spiritual reality of this dilema. There is no escaping it. You either walk according to faith unto obedience to Righteousness, Or else you walk under the law of sin unto condemnation.

Romans 6:16-19
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

You see, Paul says we have been the servants of sin, BUT we are now FREE from sin, so that we might go on to become servants of Righteousness. We can not serve both. It's either/ or. In fact, Peter also confirms this confirms this spiritual reality in the scriptures.

2 Peter 2:19
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.




Yes in deed. Both are true. The Law of Sin and death, the knowledge of good and evil has its working unto death. That is a spiritual reality identified in the scriptures. But so too is the justification by Faith unto Righteousness, though it's working is of the Spirit unto Life. The Reality is, you have two paths that you can choose from. You can choose the path that enters in by the broad way, OR, you can choose the path that enters in by the narrow way. You can not walk both paths and enter in by the same gate. The scriptures make this reality pretty clear. Obedience to the law of sin leads to death. Obedience to Faith in Christ leads to life. It is either/or. On path leads you to the resurrection of damnation, the other path to the resurrection of life everlasting.

But this is nothing new. The story is as old as the garden. As long as you hold to the knowledge of good and evil, while denying your own death, then you shall remain cut off from the tree of life.




While there is no denying that both are applicable, we find that one way serves the flesh, while the other way seeks after the Spirit. Paul in his writing goes to great lengths to expound on this, especially in the book of Romans, so the only phony setup from the start must be yours.

Peter has testified to this reality. Paul has testified to this reality. And yes, Jesus also testified to this reality when he said you cannot serve God and mammon both.

.

I do not know of a single wild animal that is gay they know nothing of the spiritual law.also I know of no primate that can survive in a vacuum

 

[ezrider]

There are 3 parties in the above. God, the "spirit of disobedience" and the person(s).

If we have a good foundation of the structure then we can form more legitimate questions. Such as, is the spirit of disobedience EVER obedient? The answer is pretty obvious. NO! Just as sin indwelling the flesh and evil present with us is never legal, obedient, faithful, under Grace or the recipient of Mercy.

If we have a good foundation of the structure? I'm sorry, but from your statements, I find the good foundation of Christ to be very much lacking in your comments. But it is written in the scriptures that chief cornerstone was also made a stumbling block.

You said: "Such as, is the spirit of disobedience EVER obedient?"

Why is your focus on the spirit of disobedience rather than the obedience of the believer unto faith?

You said: "NO! Just as sin indwelling the flesh and evil present with us is never legal, obedient, faithful, under Grace or the recipient of Mercy."

Your statement lacks any appreciation for the salvation delivered by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. You said sin and evil within us is never legal. The the evil present within us drives us to glory in the law, that being which defines legality. The Power of sin exists only by law. But sin is not imputed where there is no law. And if we are in Christ, and Christ is in us, then we are dead to the law. And if we are dead indeed to the law, then it can no more threaten me with death. You say sin indwelling the flesh and evil present is never under Grace or the recipient of Mercy. But you focus appears to be only on sin and evil, and not the salvation of the individual believer. You see, a simple understanding of the Gospel message is God has extended His Grace and Mercy to all through Jesus Christ. Now that Grace and Mercy by Faith is extended to the individual who happens to also have sin and evil present within their flesh.

The Spirit IS and remains in factual contentions with those workings of indwelling sin, evil present, the spirit of disobedience, and IS and will remain against those workings.

And when we claim not to have these issues we are not in truth and have in fact been deceived by those workings.

The Spirit of Death is and remains in contention with the workings of indwelling sin and evil present within us. But when the working of the Spirit of death has brought us to the one and only conclusion, then death has no more hold over us. We are free from the power of sin to move forward in Faith unto righteousness.

But it is not that easy you see. We have all been made the servants of sin first. We have all eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We have all fallen under the law of sin and death. The only thing the knowledge of the law works is death. But that is not the working of the Spirit of Christ who has risen from the dead. The Grace of the Lord through Faith, uses that knowledge of evil that we now posses for ourselves to go and learn mercy, and grow in the knowledge of God's Righteousness. How can one learn mercy, except they can extend it in the face of evil?

And when we claim not to have these issues we are not in truth and have in fact been deceived by those workings.

I would be more concerned about being deceived by these workings into obedience to the spirit of disobedience absent of anything to do with the working of Spirit of Christ upon the believer, or the power of HIS death and resurrection. I would be concerned about trying to elevate the workings of evil and sin above the workings of the Spirit of Christ.

If the only thing you are able to contribute is a singular focus on sin and evil present within us absent of the knowledge of the salvation through Christ and how to deal with that sin and evil present within us, then I would kindly ask that you take your commentary to a different thread. You and Chopper had a thread a while back on evil thoughts. Perhaps you could pick up your dissertation on sin and evil present within us and how God's mercy doesn't extend to evil over there.

This thread is NOT about sin and evil present within us. This thread is about how God has chosen to reveal His Righteousness by Faith. Faith that comes only after the working of the law. Faith that extends in the absence of the law. Faith, Grace and Mercy: Salvation. A gospel message preached to the people, not the evil present in the flesh.

 

[ezrider]

I do not know of a single wild animal that is gay they know nothing of the spiritual law.also I know of no primate that can survive in a vacuum

You know nothing John Snow!

Nope, no primate can survive in a vacuum, well at least for more than a day or so. No, not good for living in, but they sure do come in handy cleaning up the mess they leave.

 

[ezrider]

Romans 12:21
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Matthew 5:33-38
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[smaller]

Honestly, I do not know how you could make that statement. Either you have not paid attention to the scriptures that I have posted in this thread, Or else you just continue to ignore the content of what is said and look for only what you want to see. From my comment that you responded to, you highlighted the words "either' and "or" but conveniently ignored the context of "obedience."

Thought I pointed out the fallacy of the setup. There is no either or. There is both. It makes things much more complicated, and much more interesting.

You then go on to say that this fall apart under scriptural reality, when in fact the scriptures establish the spiritual reality of this dilema.

Go back and read your claim. Then hold that claim up to the reality that indwelling sin/evil present isn't and can't be obedient no matter what any claims are made about it. Which is the general point of making the observation.

There is no either or as you proposed here:

We either walk in obedience unto Faith, or we walk in obedience to the law and our knowledge of sin.

The law of sin doesn't go away by ignoring the law of sin.

There is no escaping it. You either walk according to faith unto obedience to Righteousness, Or else you walk under the law of sin unto condemnation.

Ah, but you see, you're missing the point altogether. There is no alternative to the law of sin being in operation. I spared doing the scriptural pile on to emphasize the fact of the law of sin being in full operation with Paul, but any casual glance at Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:15, Romans 7:19, Romans 7:23, Romans 7:25 shows the law of sin going head on with Paul. Gal. 5:17 shows identically.

We can't squeeze the "entirety" of ourselves in our current state under only one side of the scriptural ledgers.

You see, Paul says we have been the servants of sin, BUT we are now FREE from sin, so that we might go on to become servants of Righteousness. We can not serve both. It's either/ or. In fact, Peter also confirms this confirms this spiritual reality in the scriptures.

I'd certainly agree that by not understanding how the law of sin functions and more precisely, WHO is behind the facts of it's operation, 1 John 3:8, that we can again be made slaves of sin. But again, are we not slaves when we LIE about indwelling sin and evil present with us, by claiming for example these workings are OBEDIENT? Do you understand the trap door there? Or the resulting hypocrisy that can and DOES arise from that lie?

We shouldn't paint ourselves so easily into a scriptural corner cause it's difficult to escape the facts of scriptural reality. Impossible.

Yes in deed. Both are true. The Law of Sin and death, the knowledge of good and evil has its working unto death. That is a spiritual reality identified in the scriptures. But so too is the justification by Faith unto Righteousness, though it's working is of the Spirit unto Life. The Reality is, you have two paths that you can choose from. You can choose the path that enters in by the broad way, OR, you can choose the path that enters in by the narrow way.

Bear with me here for a moment and perhaps we can get on the same page (finally.) What you speak of in bold above can not extend to indwelling sin and evil present. The Spirit IS (and remains) factually against those things/workings in our flesh and IS (and remains) factually contrary to those things/workings, regardless. There is no way to brush this aside.

Legitimately anyway.

You can not walk both paths and enter in by the same gate. The scriptures make this reality pretty clear. Obedience to the law of sin leads to death. Obedience to Faith in Christ leads to life. It is either/or. On path leads you to the resurrection of damnation, the other path to the resurrection of life everlasting.

You're going to keep repeating the unworkable mantra. Just saying it's not a working posture nor is it scriptural. Regardless of path/choice no choice can be made to escape the obvious. That we do have indwelling sin/evil present with us. These and the "law of sin" they function by/under are NOT changing via anyone's choices. Romans 7:17-21, Romans 8:3, 2 Cor. 12:7, Gal. 5:17 1 Tim. 1:15.

I know that the "natural" inclination of the flesh is to walk quickly away from these facts. That's what that working, indwelling sin/evil present does (of many deceiving angles.)

But this is nothing new. The story is as old as the garden. As long as you hold to the knowledge of good and evil, while denying your own death, then you shall remain cut off from the tree of life.

Sorry. Indwelling sin/evil present isn't getting access to the "tree of life" under any circumstances. It's simply not going to happen, ever.

 

[smaller]

This thread is NOT about sin and evil present within us. This thread is about how God has chosen to reveal His Righteousness by Faith.

I've heard the one lip trumpet spiel in christiandom for a long long time. People just love to hear that noise. But it simply isn't true or truthful. No offense meant to you, personally.

Even if we don't look, don't talk about the facts, ignore the scriptures presenting the facts about things we don't like, they are not going away.

We can stare at the righteousness of God in Christ all day long and ignore the law of sin as much as we please. The two are not going to mix.

We do have a "vile" body that will be changed. Phil. 3:21.

We "wait" to put on the righteousness of Christ.

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

If we see the reality of Gal. 5:17, we'll see why we don't have the fullness, YET. But it is part of the HOPE of the Gospel, and part of what we "wait" for.

We can't choose our way into it. We can't wish our way into it. We can't imagine our way into it. We can't think our way into it.

It comes ONLY from the ONE TIME change that Paul speaks of in Phil. 3:21, by the power of Christ, Alone, and other places, such as Romans 8:18-23.

We can not by any stretch of our own imaginations, turn ourselves into The Spirit of Christ. That is not a happening deal, nor is that faith. We understand, by faith, the Spirit of Christ is with us/in us.

But that is not the whole equation, presently.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Which brings us back to the subject of the OP. We either walk in obedience unto Faith, or we walk in obedience to the law

When I keep the law "love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18 NASB) because I have faith in Christ, how is that not also being obedient to the law?

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh, it's all good.

You might think it is not relevant to anything, but I would tell you that it is relevant to everything. So if you will, I will explain. In asking you to leave God out of it, and by asking you to leave out the influences put upon by religion and society, I have asked you look at the situation in a vacuum. And in that vacuum, you revealed the law that is written upon your heart by faith. By Faith, what is written upon your heart, you have judged as "No harm done." Therefore, in the absence of the knowledge of the law of sin, by following what was in your heart, you did not find it evil: you found it to be, as you said, no harm done.

Which brings us back to the subject of the OP. We either walk in obedience unto Faith, or we walk in obedience to the law and our knowledge of sin. By the knowledge of the law, you wanted to say it was evil, but by faith in the absence of the law, you said no harm done. With this understanding, by faith, and by what is written in your heart, then you are free to extend the Grace and Mercy of the Lord, that the knowledge of sin and evil would seek to prevent.

By FAITH, I too would say, no harm done. IF it be EVIL, then that is reserved for the Lord Almighty Himself to judge.

Hi EZ,
I have no problem extending the grace and mercy of the Lord to everyone.
I also have the knowledge of sin and evil, but it does not prevent me from extending grace and mercy. Sin and evil are a part of our human nature - when I see such a person, I see satan at work in them.
What upsets me most is that they don't realize this.

Yours was an interesting experiment. Ezekiel says that God will take the law our of our hard heart and put a new spirit into our heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:26

I can judge no one because I'm a sinner. Sinners should be careful to judge others. To God we are all sinners, and this should keep us humble.

We can, however, know that some acts are wrong. It's wrong for me to steal money from someone. I can do it, but it's wrong and if I'm a Christian, I am called to restore the money and ask for forgiveness, to man and God.

The problem I have with the experiment is that we do not live in a void and our actions do have an affect on everyone around us, even when it seems that they may not. The bible does speak to our discussion:
Leviticus 18.22

Romans 1:26-28 Says that the persons it's speaking of did what their heart desired. Sometimes we cannot trust our heart - it may not want the right thing. God send Jesus specifically so that we may know how to please God.

I used to teach kids that you CANNOT trust your conscience - UNLESS it's formed properly and represents the image of God in your decisions. A conscience does not have to be formed properly if one is living in a vacuum -- it's because we don't that we need to decide what is right and wrong and how our actions affect all of society. The Natural Law.

Your experiment reminds me too much of post-modern Christianity. Subjective moral values instead of objective moral values which exist precisely because God exists.

So shouldn't what God wants be our barometer?

Wondering

 

[ezrider]

The problem I have with the experiment is that we do not live in a void and our actions do have an affect on everyone around us, even when it seems that they may not.

The point was not to be left in a void. The point was we were trying to have an actual conversation, where in order to understand YOUR thoughts I asked some probing questions and asked you to look at it in a vacuum. In fact I said leave God out of it and leave out religion. Some took offense to that, is if the very thought of asking to leave God out of it was itself some evil act. But I thank you for persevering and answering my questions. Many would not, but I think we probably have a little better understanding of one another for it.

So shouldn't what God wants be our barometer?

That is the question we should all be asking. That is the question of questions. Shouldn't what God wants be are barometer? YEA, YEA.

So what is it that God wants?

As part of the OP and topic of this thread, I would say to learn to walk by faith rather than the knowledge of the law.

By the knowledge of the Law, as you referenced from Lev 18:22, homosexuality is an abomination. Ok. So now you have that piece of fruit. You have gobbled it up and have wholly consumed it; What do you do with it now? What Does God want you to do with that knowledge now?

God has already judged the world according to Sin. He has found ALL GUILTY. So with that understanding, do you think God wants His Children organizing in opposition to Gay marriage? Organizing in opposition to what they see as Sin according to the Knowledge of good and evil found in the Law of Moses? Is it God's will that his children play the roll of the accuser and walk according to the Flesh and the things of this world? OR, is it God's will that we learn to walk after the Spirit, and let go of the thing of the flesh? After all, the scriptures tell us, that for sin, Christ condemned sin in the flesh.


What is your barometer?

 

[ezrider]

When I keep the law "love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18 NASB) because I have faith in Christ, how is that not also being obedient to the law?

What?




Your making my head spin. Your asking me to confirm that when you say you keep the "law" love your neighbor as yourself, that you are indeed being obedient to the "law". Yes, you have said it yourself. You keep the law, you are obedient to the law. Know you not that you shall also be judged by the law?

 

[ezrider]

Thought I pointed out the fallacy of the setup. There is no either or. There is both. It makes things much more complicated, and much more interesting.

You thought wrong. What you fail to see is the fallacy of your own presumptions.

Go back and read your claim. Then hold that claim up to the reality that indwelling sin/evil present isn't and can't be obedient no matter what any claims are made about it. Which is the general point of making the observation.

There is no either or as you proposed here:

Perhaps the better thing would be for you to actually go back and address the scriptures I have provided. Until you do that, your words of fallacy ring as empty rhetoric.

 

[ezrider]

Ah, but you see, you're missing the point altogether. There is no alternative to the law of sin being in operation. I spared doing the scriptural pile on to emphasize the fact of the law of sin being in full operation with Paul, but any casual glance at Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:15, Romans 7:19, Romans 7:23, Romans 7:25 shows the law of sin going head on with Paul. Gal. 5:17 shows identically.

Oh, you can pile on all the scriptures you want that point out the law of sin in operation: But there is no one here denying the operation of the law if sin, you just can't seem to accept that. But then you say there is no alternative to the law of sin being in operation. While there is no prevention to the operation of the law of sin in the flesh, there most certainly IS an ALTERNATIVE. Perhaps that is the part of the truth that was eaten by the scavengers before the leftover carcass was found along the way side.

Do I really need to post the scripture from the book of Romans that says where sin abounds, Grace abounds all the more? If I posted that scripture, would it actually mean anything to you? For it is evident from your many posts that you can't seem to move beyond the "where sin abounds." Is that the end of all the knowledge you have to share? Are you even interested in the GRACE of the LORD, and how that GRACE abounds the MORE than does sin.

I already fully understand the working of sin and where sin abounds. I do not need to pursue it's knowledge any longer. If I were to continue to seek the knowledge of sin and the workings of evil in the flesh, it would provide nothing more to convince me otherwise of the rightful conclusion its working has already drawn.

The working of sin still has power and operation under the law, for those who have not yet to accept the right conclusion of condemnation. But for those who have accepted that rightful conclusion under the operation of the law, then there is no more working that it can provide. So while the sin remains present in the flesh, By IT, I am provided the means by faith and through faith to understand the GRACE of the Lord as it abound the MORE.

What can you add to the understanding of how the working of GRACE exceeds the glory of the working of sin and evil?