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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Fate... Free Will vs Predestination
- Thread starter Christ the King
- Start date
Chapter and verse?
Evil may come from evil men who practice evil.
What about righteous men who practice righteousness?
JLB
By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. Hebrews 11:4
Do you believe Abel was totally depraved?
How about Noah?
Was Moses totally depraved?
JLB
So Noah was saved by grace through faith according to Ephesians 2?
Was he totally depraved?
JLB
So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him. Genesis 9:24
Sorry, this doesn’t say Noah was a drunkard.
JLB
So far we don’t find the term “Total Depravity” in scripture, so we don’t really know biblically speaking what it means or refers to, other than extra biblical definitions and explanations.
We know for sure that Cain was given the God given ability to have the choice to do well, or to sin, because God pointed out to him that he should rule over sin.
If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” Genesis 4:7
If Cain had the God given ability to rule over sin, and to do good, but chose not to, how does that fit the narrative of “Total Depravity”?
Since I don’t have a biblical reference of the term “Total Depravity”, how do I know what it means?
Where do I go to find out what Total Depravity means?
How would a Christian who was studying the scriptures, searching them out to be a good Berean, find out what the term
“Total Depravity” means to the born again Christian?
How does Abel fit the narrative of Total Depravity, since the scriptures say he was righteous?
By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. Hebrews 11:4
Was Abel “Totally Depraved”?
JLB
We know for sure that Cain was given the God given ability to have the choice to do well, or to sin, because God pointed out to him that he should rule over sin.
If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” Genesis 4:7
If Cain had the God given ability to rule over sin, and to do good, but chose not to, how does that fit the narrative of “Total Depravity”?
Since I don’t have a biblical reference of the term “Total Depravity”, how do I know what it means?
Where do I go to find out what Total Depravity means?
How would a Christian who was studying the scriptures, searching them out to be a good Berean, find out what the term
“Total Depravity” means to the born again Christian?
How does Abel fit the narrative of Total Depravity, since the scriptures say he was righteous?
By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. Hebrews 11:4
Was Abel “Totally Depraved”?
JLB
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atpollard,
Article 3 of the Five Articles of Remonstrance that was debated at the Council of Dort states:
That man has not saving grace of himself, nor of the energy of his free will, inasmuch as he, in the state of apostasy and sin, can of and by himself neither think, will, nor do any thing that is truly good (such as saving Faith eminently is); but that it is needful that he be born again of God in Christ, through his Holy Spirit, and renewed in understanding, inclination, or will, and all his powers, in order that he may rightly understand, think, will, and effect what is truly good, according to the Word of Christ, John 15:5, “Without me ye can do nothing.
What did Jacobus Arminius believe about Total Depravity?
Oz
It’s good to understand that at the moment of salvation, when unregenerate man becomes born again, saving grace is made available to the lost person that he may repent and be saved, as Paul describes in the book of Romans.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16
- for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes
There is the power of God made available unto salvation, for those who believe it. As we see further in Romans, this believing results in obeying what is therefore heard and believed.
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17
So these two additional elements are required at salvation, besides faith and grace, according to the scriptures:
The Gospel being preached in which hearing and believing take place.
The Gospel being preached that results in hearing, hearing that results in faith being produced in the unregenerate, the believing what is heard so that obeying occurs (by grace); resulting in salvation for an unregenerate person.
Paul actually breaks this down for us, this way —
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, who bring glad tidings of good things!”
Romans 10:14-15
I guess my question would be: Where does the idea come from that a person must first be saved in order to believe?
JLB
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Accepting is the same thing as believing as we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. If we do not accept Him then we are none of His own.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Do you not know that the OT is types and shadows of Christ, especially in the Passover Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world, Isaiah 53:7; John 1:29-36; Rev 5:9, 12; 13:8. From Genesis through Revelations the scriptures reveal the glory of Christ, but for some it's not that simple to see this within all the typologies that are found in the Bible. We quote and underline to show others where these scriptures are so they can go read and study them. Without scripture all we have are others opinions of their own interpretations.
You are an English speaking human being and should know that one word is like various other words that means the same as the original that is given.
You, I, me, man, woman all equals that of what the word "you" means.
This nit picking over words is getting out of hand just to prove ones opinion and needs to stop. Do we pick one particular Bible and throw the rest away because it uses a different word than the one we use?
Let's get back to the topic of the OP as we have strayed off into another conversation. Please fill free to start another thread on this topic of words.
Psalms 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.
Are we to literally taste the Lord, for how could we do this?
Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.
Are we to literally eat the words of God found written in the scriptures?
Ezekiel 3:1 Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this roll, and go speak unto the house of Israel. 2 So I opened my mouth, and he caused me to eat that roll. 3 And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness.
Did Ezekiel literally eat that scroll and did it literally taste like honey?
The answers are obviously no, so in Isaiah 53:7 Jesus is a type associated with a lamb being led to the slaughter as He was not a literal lamb, but was a representation of the lambs that were slaughter on the day of Passover beginning with the exodus in Exodus 12:1-6. Jesus was the final Passover, sacrificed for us and He was sacrificed on the same exact day of the year that the Passover lambs always had been slain, Exodus 12:1-6.
Jesus came to call the unrighteous to Him, but yet it is one's freewill to accept this call of God's grace throuh Christ Jesus freely given to all who will believe in Him.
We all have the ability to obey God's commands, it's that some chose not to as we see through the OT as they are driven by the desires of their heart that follows their own worldly will. It was by their free will choice that caused God's judgement to fall on them as they damned themselves and died in their sin.
This doesn't even make sense as of course all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of the Lord, Romans 3:23. This is the whole point of the sacrifice of Christ through God's grace that all who will believe and come to Him are redeemed by the blood of Christ who paid a horrendous debt for our sin.
It repented God that He even created man as they all turned away from Him as their hearts were full of iniquity and were washed away by the flood. They made their own choice to turn from God even though they had the ability to obey His commands. Noah who had the same ability as everyone else chose to obey God's commands and was saved from the flood by God's grace bestowed upon him. Genesis 6:6-8.
In the flesh we will always sin for that is it's nature, but if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. Romans 8:10-14.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
None of us are perfect in the flesh, but to those who believe in Christ and obedient to His commands have been quicken by the Holy Spirit that means we are no longer dead in our sin, but made alive to God by the Spiritual transformation in order to see the kingdom of God, John 3:5-7; Ephesians 2:1-4.
Noah was righteous because he obey the voice of God By which he received faith.
That’s how faith functions, works, operates... by the law or principle of faith.
By faith means God spoke to someone and they obeyed.
Very simple.
JLB