Five Primary Doctrines

[Brother Mike]

would like to narrow down the Word Faith Movement to five primary doctrines. I will go from outright heretical to borderline orthodox.

Wow I sure disagee... (I promise not be snarky)

Primary Doctrine One: Jesus died spiritually and had to be born-again in Hell. Nearly every top WOF Evangelist and TV preacher embraces this doctrine. The idea is that Jesus had to experience everything mankind is experiencing. And it had to be a born again man defeat Satan. They will misuse various scriptures such as “the first-born of all creation”.

Who teaches ?Jesus went to hell to preach to the spirits in bondage. Those that died with God heard the good news, the Lord came and got them the heck out of there.

Primary Doctrine Two: Some will say that you are a god. Somewill say, you are a little god. They will misuse Psalm 82 and John 10.

What did Jesus say when they were about to stone him for making himself out to be God'?

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Ye are what? Theos. Your like me he said, why stone me? What he give them, the passage in Psalms. What happens if your not perfect and like a child of God? You get judged!!! Why do you get judged? because you were not created to be a mere man, but have the creators nature and characteristic in you.

Jas_3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.


We bless one God but curse another god just like the image of the father. Don't do that!!! James warned us.

Jesus said ye are gods, you are theos a deity of uncertain affinity. A deity is immortal, they be with the Father when they die or they get judged and are not with the father. All deity's have to face the music, and will be judged like one of the princes (Satan) and thrown into Hell created for the devil and his angels. Because we are gods, there are eternal consequences for not taking up the nature of the one that made us like him.

Jesus was not talking about some God like power, He was talking to them about their nature, and judgment. They were immortal just like Jesus and created just like him. That means they have to answer to the one that made them just like him.

Primary Doctrine Four: Christians should be wealthy. Again, that confession is most important. You need to quote the promises of God back to yourself. That then creates wealth per your measure of faith.

What scripture is this! Jesus said a man is not measured by the wealth they have.

Primary Doctrine Five: Christians should never get sick. If they do get sick, they let their hedge down. And they should at least get healed per their confession of faith. Again, scripture quoting is paramount to getting healed.

What scripture is this? My son was suppose to have been dead because of cancer. How the heck he Get sick and so suddenly and quickly,? It was like a flood, it just came. What about trophimus? Paul left him sick?

Primary Doctrine Three

Confession may be used in a positive way to learn scripture. It may be used in a negative way to demand God to respond per their request because they have the right words accompanied by the force of faith.

I go to my Father and sometimes I demand to know something, or ask. I want to know now Father! This has absolutely nothing to do with some force of faith. This has to do with relationship. I know God always answers me and fills me in and gets me pointed in the right direction when I get myself confused. The Lord performs the Word with signs following, The Lord does, not some force of faith. Amazing.

Primary Doctrine Five

God does heal. But God also responds based upon his will. His plan for Job was much different than his plan for Job’s kids who died.

Grace and Peace

One scripture denoting the plan of God for Jobs kids. Just one. You know what happened to Job's kids and why. At least I hope you do. God takes not pleasure in the death of the wicked, and you suggest it was his will to take pleasure in the death of Jobs kids?

We don't take make believe stuff, we don't take any one doctrine like Baptist, Methodist, or any other group of Gods children, hand pick some statements made by some radical folks in each of those doctrines then come on some public form and post. Baptist believe God loves dead soldiers! I got youtube video's to prove it. No, I am more learned than that. I got video of confused people is what I have that call themselves Baptist.
Don't group a bunch of folks of any group and start to say false things about them or label them. It's not right. I can make any denomination out to be anything by hand picking some out of those denominations that have said things that might not be scriptural. I can do so because they carry the label.

Mike.

 

[Brother Mike]

This is one that I was caught up in for a time.
When I didn't get healed, I'd think "is my faith weak?", "am I in sin?", "how can I make myself perfect so I can be healed?", "what's wrong with me?".
People easily get caught up in this.
If they don't overcome it, they may lose faith or worse, walk away from God.

I understand my Brother. I want you to consider this. I have been around healing and all types of different denominations that believe it's God's will to heal and those that believe God can heal, if God so chooses.

The Key thing you typed here is........... "If they don't overcome" They may loose their faith and walk away from God.

You have this turned around. When they loose their faith, that is when they don't overcome. They waiver back and forth, they make plan B, plan C just in case God does not come through. Let not that person think they shall receive anything of the Lord. You can't waiver back and forth on something. Be no weary in well doing for you shall reap if you faint not.

Follow those who through faith and patience receive the promises.

Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

What happens if you give up/? What happens if you make plan B then C the D just in case God don't heal you?

What happens if you loose your patience? Many places in the Word, Faith and Patience is mentioned together. I wish God would not have put in the patience part, but He did.

Look at Abraham. How many years he wait? 15-25 some say. Old him and Sarah both, unable to physically have a child. Both way past their years. Why could not have God just gave them Issac when they were younger. God did not, for whatever reason. However, they had a promise and time did not matter.

Time Tries Trust.

Someone that gets mad at God and gives up failed. The Word tried them just like Joseph. Joseph should have given up, He had a crazy dream about ruling everything, and he gets sold as a slave and when things look like they are getting better He gets thrown in prison. The two guys that he helped forgot him.

Paul swimming to shore because the boat he was in broke apart, been beat, in prison, and he gets to shore to get warm and a poisonous snake bites him. What a day!!!! Paul never gave up though, never stopped believe God but boldly wrote God is faithful He will deliver you from unreasonable and Wicked men. No question in Pauls mind because He had experience, which produced hope.

When I didn't get healed, I'd think "is my faith weak?", "am I in sin?", "how can I make myself perfect so I can be healed?", "what's wrong with me?".

So, if your at the point of asking why I did not get healed, you gave up. Nobody says what is wrong with me, nobody says they don't think they are perfect they blame God. I have run into a bunch of these people. Nobody says their faith is weak. They gave up, based on what????

What point do you give up? What is the deciding factor that says I will never be healed? The doctor report? what others tell you? How you feel? What point??

I can promise it is not the Word, it's not God. It's not the giants. Its the person, they gave up.

Peter had the most amazing miracle happen to him. He was walking on the water. What happened? It was the Lords will he walk on water, with the Will of God comes the ability to do the Will. Was it the Lords fault? No, Peter started to look at the waves and wind and "Being afraid" started to sink. What happens if we are afraid we won't get healed? Are we any different than Peter? Are we better than someone that wrote books in the bible? I hardly think so.

Where is the point Abraham decides that Issac is not going to come? He never got to that point and His faith was counted as Righteousness.

I had people tell me it's not the will of God to heal them and they still had another 5 or more years left in them according to the doctor. They gave up with 5 predicted years left. Amazing.

allenwynne: There are more people upset at God for about everything, that never had faith for anything. Lord if it be thy will........... is about the best they did. Upset because they lost a child, they are sick and hurting, they are broke.

There are also people who are broke and tried that WOF stuff. That are still sick and tried that WOF stuff. What they heck they try anyway? Confessed a few months they were rich? They are just as confused.

MY own son I commanded the devil to get his hands off him in the name of Jesus the first day I got that cancer report. You can't have my Child Satan, you have no right.

It did not get better from there allenwynne

My boy was in the best hands of some Doctors in Chicago and they could not get this cancer to stop, slow down or even hesitate a little. They tried everything. It was a very rare cancer that was not very treatable to start with.

The days went by 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8

Just 8 days this cancer had broken every surface blood vessel in his skin, had all but stopped his organ functions was in all the blood cells in his body, his spin full of the stuff.

How the heck, just a low grade fever then 8 days later I get a call telling me he won't live through the night? Really?

What point, do I say my son won't be healed? What point do I get sad, or start crying out to God like a person that don't know or trust him? What point?

I did none of that. Even after the call My God always performs His Word, My God has never failed those that believe and trust in Him. I said thank you Father that your Word says with Long life I satisfy Him, I am not moved!!!!!!

It was day 9..................... My son was suppose to have been dead, they did all they could do and could not reverse the cancer or even slow it down. Day 8 I got the worse report from some very skilled and trained doctors at Chicago Memorial Hospital for Children. They said it was finished, over, they tried and I am so thankful for them.

Day 9 though, my son was still alive. They were stumped, they could not find even one cancer cell in his body. Not ONE!!! I have the report at home!!

At want point do you give up? For what God did for me, He will do for anyone that will not let go, and through faith and patience inherit the promise.

Blessings
Mike.

 

[Elijah674]

There are ten laws which are all equal in importance. By breaking only one, all are seen as broken. James 2:8-12
And the ones who will be saved are these of Eccl. 12:13-14

--Elijah

John 16:8-9 "And He [Holy Spirit], when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me"

John 3:15-16, so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish [eternal security], but have eternal life.

John 3:18 He who believes in Him [Christ] is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Notice that the word believe is repeated three times in this verse, and that no works are added to it.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life, but he who does not believe in the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on Him. The issue in salvation is that you either believe in Christ once, or you do not believe.

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life."
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her [Martha], "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die."
You have to believe while you are alive; there is no second chance after you die.

John 20:31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Acts 16:31 They said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household [meaning, if anyone in your household believes in Christ, they too are saved]."
Notice that the command is to believe; there is nothing added to it.

Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God [Royal Family] through faith in Christ Jesus.
Notice that nothing is added to faith.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek [Gentile].
Everyone is saved the same way, both Jew and Gentile. They are saved, not be keeping the Law, but only by believing in Christ.

Romans 3:20-22, because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets [Old Testament], even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
Romans 3:28, For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.
Notice it is by faith apart from works. This means that when a person adds any type of works whatsoever to faith, he is not justified and therefore not saved.

Galatians 2:16, nevertheless knowing that a man [spiritually dead person] is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
How are we justified in the eyes of God?
Romans 5:1, Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through Our Lord Jesus Christ."
The only way of salvation is one act of personal faith in Jesus Christ with nothing added to it. To add to faith in Christ for salvation is no salvation at all. If, when you believe in Christ, you are depending upon something else besides faith in Christ, you are not saved.

Philippians 3:9, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.

2Timothy 3:15, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Even if you later renounce your faith in Christ, you are still saved.

2Timothy 2:11-13, (ASV) Faithful is the saying [Word]: For if we died with Him [Christ; and we have], we will also live with Him [Christ]; if we endure [suffering for blessing], we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He also will deny us [escrow savings account blessings for time and eternity]; if we are faithless [do not believe, after we are saved], He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
God the Father cannot deny the indwelling of the Trinity.

Romans 3:24, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Salvation is said to be by grace, and grace is God doing the work and God getting the credit, and excludes human works.

Romans 4:16, (a)For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace,

Romans 5:1-2, Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand;

Romans 5:15, But the free gift [of salvation] is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one [Adam] the many [human race] died [spiritual death], much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
Romans 5:17, For if by the transgression of the one [Adam], [spiritual] death reigned through the one [Adam], much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the one, Jesus Christ.
2Timothy 1:9, who [God the Father] has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity past,

Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone are the ones who are saved.

Are you suggesting that these all good verses, are negating the total Truth?? Perhaps I miss the point? Who that loves our Lord will not obey Him???

--Elijah

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

At want point do you give up? For what God did for me, He will do for anyone that will not let go, and through faith and patience inherit the promise.

Thank you Brother Mike for sharing that.
Let me say some things here and see if you agree with me.
1. If we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord, and believe in our hearts that he rose from the dead, we will be saved. YES!
2. We pray for healing, give it all to Jesus, and wait patiently for our healing that we believe we will receive. NO!

I don't see it working that way. If one is not healed, judgement follows.
They are doing something wrong, losing faith, etc..

This is exactly what I've seen WOF do!
They are so righteous that God does anything for them.
And you, sinner, are not right with God for whatever reason.

You can point fingers at any denomination for what they do wrong, and this is something that you can point at WOF!
You can say that you are not this way, but you can't speak for everyone else.

 

[reba]

In any other group there are fringes and far outs.... When we have some kind of personal dealings with a fringe group it tantes our view..

 

[Brother Mike]

Thank you Brother Mike for sharing that.
Let me say some things here and see if you agree with me.
1. If we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord, and believe in our hearts that he rose from the dead, we will be saved. YES!
2. We pray for healing, give it all to Jesus, and wait patiently for our healing that we believe we will receive. NO!

I don't see it working that way. If one is not healed, judgement follows.
They are doing something wrong, losing faith, etc..

What I said is, the same word that says your saved, also says by his stripes you are healed. Same word.............. No difference.

Now, How you know your saved? Seriously? Your not dead yet, so you can't prove you have eternal life, you not been on any judgment seat yet so you can't prove your sins are forgiven. What are you basing this belief on with no proof at all?

I can show many that believed God for healing and got healed. What have you got? You got nothing to prove anything about you being saved. Not a single thing. So you just believe your received your salvation? With no proof, or angles blasting trumpets when you got saved. Your just going to believe you have it? Really?

I don't see it working that way. If one is not healed, judgement follows.
They are doing something wrong, losing faith, etc..

I have been in this healing stuff for years. Nobody feels judged, nobody thinks they are doing wrong. What happens is they get mad at God because they stood for 2 weeks and nothing happened.
Some people don't take the kids to the doctor because the don't want to look like they don't have faith in front of their Church.............. DUMB!!!!!!! just plain stupid. Kids are dying like that, just one in the news the other day.

This is exactly what I've seen WOF do!
They are so righteous that God does anything for them.
And you, sinner, are not right with God for whatever reason.

No, no, no.................. First we need to believe God for everything, Healing included. If someone can't receive healing or it's taking a long time, then we go help them. I find out where they are at, what they can believe (According to your faith it is done unto you) Some feel better about going to the doctor, whatever. We help them.

I have no idea what WOF church your talking about here. I have not seen it in 14 years.

Man, the big man of faith Kenneth Copeland. Hurt his back to where he had to cancel a meeting. The first in 35 years. The brother could hardly walk. He went to Crefflo and Jerry Savelle and said I need help, I am missing the Lord here somewhere.
The man that taught these two faith, went to them for help. That is what we are suppose to do, not put someone down, or just have so much pride we don't ask for help. It turns out Brother Copeland disobeyed the Lord. The Lord told him to go to the doctor. Kenneth said bless God I don't need a doctor and made some faith confession over himself and stayed hurt. I guess he has learned.

You can point fingers at any denomination for what they do wrong, and this is something that you can point at WOF!
You can say that you are not this way, but you can't speak for everyone else.

Many years back when I first started to learn to trust God. I was asked by a brother if I had diabetes would I still take insulin. I told him I would rebuke it and it would have to leave. This brother looked up to me. So this is what he did. He to show that he had faith (Faith without works is dead, right?) stopped taking his insulin. He felt he needed more faith and He was going to step out and prove that He had faith.

That decision almost killed him. They had to bring him back and just barely because he went into a diabetic coma for a couple days. I was praying for him and the Lord spoke to me. The Lord said this, "I am holding you responsible for your brother." I realized it was my fault, oh my gosh I felt horrible. My stupid, and flippant comment put him down and condemned him so much He made a life threating choice.

Don't think for a second I would ever, ever let that happen again. I never push what I believe or can believe on someone else. Never.......... It can bring deadly results. In fact I don't even tell some of my testimonies because of this.

Now............................. how you know your saved again??? Why do you stand and believe you have received Salvation without proof? If you had that same faith for anything else God said, to stand and believe something until you die or the Lord comes without proof, then those are the folks God is going to use in extreme and mighty ways.

Blessings.

Mike.

 

[reba]

Lets not keep this thread isolated to healing back to topic...

 

[Brother Mike]

Lets not keep this thread isolated to healing back to topic...

By his stripes I am healed?
God supply's all my needs according to his riches and glory in Christ Jesus
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved.

Which is more easy to believe?

The topic was the Evils of a certain denomination. OH MY!!!!

Mike

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Who teaches ?

Kenneth Copeland (Mr. Hagin’s star pupil), Benny Hinn (Top WOF Evangelist), Kenneth Hagin (Father of the WoF Movement), E.W. Kenyon (Grandfather of the WoF Movement) for starters. …

"Jesus was conceived without sin. His body became mortal, only then could He die. When this happened, spiritual death, the nature of Satan, took possession of His Spirit."

Kenyon, E.W. What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, seventh edition, pg. 20

"He was to partake of Spiritual Death, the nature of the Adversary. It has been said that God could not do a thing like that. That is sense knowledge reasoning. . .Satan would become His master."

Kenyon, E.W. What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, seventh edition, pg. 20

"He is spiritually dead. The worm. He has become what John's Gospel, 3:14, said. "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so much the Son of Man be lifted up. He had been lifted up as a serpent, Serpent is Satan. Jesus Knew He was going to be lifted up, united with the Adversary."

Kenyon, E.W. What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, seventh edition, pg. 20

"You remember that He uttered the sentence, "It is finished." You can now understand that He did not mean that He had finished His Substitutionary work, but that He had finished the work the Father gave Him to do first. . .If Jesus paid the penalty for Sin on the cross, then Sin is but a physical act. If His death paid it, then every man could die for himself. Sin is in the spirit realm. His death was but a means to an end. . .When Jesus died, His spirit was taken by the Adversary, and carried to the place where the sinner's spirit goes when he dies."

Kenyon, E.W. What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, seventh edition, pg. 20

"He is the first born out of spiritual death, the first person who was ever born again. . . His spirit absolutely became impregnated with the sin nature of the world. . . Christ did not have sin reckoned to Him. He was made to be sin.

Kenyon, E.W. What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, seventh edition, pg. 20

"Satan triumphantly bore His Spirit to the Dark Regions of Hades. All the sufferings and torments that Hell could produce were heaped upon Jesus. When He had suffered Hell's agonies for three days and three nights, the Supreme Court of the Universe cried, "Enough." He had paid the penalty and met the claims of Justice. Satan saw Him justified. God made Him alive in Spirit right there in the presence of the cohorts of Hades. Jesus was made a New Creation. . .Jesus was born into the New Covenant in Hades."

Kenyon, E.W. What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, seventh edition, pg. 20

"But when it comes to ministry, Jesus does not stand in a class by Himself. . . Even though Jesus was the Son of God, and divine blood flowed through His veins, yet He was ministering on the earth as a human being - a prophet anointed with the Holy Spirit."(
Hagin, Kenneth, Hear and Be Healed, pgs. 8,13-14
Benny Hinn says it this way- ". . .He was begotten. Do you know what the word begotten means? It means reborn. Do you want another shocker? Have you been begotten? So was He. Don't let anyone deceive you. Jesus was reborn. . .He was reborn. He had to be reborn. . .If He was not reborn, I could not be reborn."(

Hinn, Benny, Our Position In Christ available on video tape #TV-254

http://web.archive.org/web/20080506102653/http://www.discernment.org/jesus.htm

Kenneth Copeland

“It wasn’t the physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin ... anybody could do that.†(What Satan Saw on the Day of Pentecost)

“Every prophet that walked the face of the earth under the Abrahamic covenant could have paid the price if it were a physical death only†“When He said ‘It is finished’ on that cross, He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. The plan of redemption had just begun; there were still three days and three nights to be gone through.†“[Jesus] accepted the sin nature of Satan in His own Spirit, and at the moment that He did so, He cried ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’.†“He [Jesus] was down in that pit and there he suffered the punishment for three horrible days and nights for Adam’s treason ... There is a new birth takes place in the very depths of the earth, when the command of God says ‘That’s enough, loose him and let him go’.†(What Happened from the Cross to the Throne)

Copeland says that Jesus became a sign of Satan when He was hanging on the cross: “The righteousness of God was made to be sin. He accepted the sin nature of Satan in His own spirit. And at the moment that He did so, He cried, ‘My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken Me?’ You don’t know what happened at the cross. Why do you think Moses, upon instruction of God, raised the serpent upon that pole instead of a lamb? That used to bug me. I said, ‘Why in the world would you want to put a snake up there—the sign of Satan? Why didn’t you put a lamb on that pole?’ And the Lord said, ‘Because it was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross.’ He said, ‘I accepted, in My own spirit, spiritual death; and the light was turned off.’†(What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017, side 2)

“When Jesus cried, ‘It is finished!’ He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. There were still three days and nights to go through before He went to the throne. … Jesus’ death on the cross was only the beginning of the complete work of redemption.†(“Jesus—Our Lord of Glory,†Believer’s Voice of Victory, April 1982, p. 3)

“n hell He [Jesus] suffered for you and for me. The Bible says hell was made for Satan and his angles. It was not made for men. Satan was holding the Son of God there illegally … The trap was set for Satan and Jesus was the bait.†(Walking in the Realm of the Miraculous, 1979, p. 77)
Satan blew it on a technicality, according to Faith theology, because Satan had dragged Jesus into hell illegally. As Copeland puts it, “The Devil forgot to take into consideration that Jesus hadn’t sinned Himself but, rather, had merely become sin as a result of the sin of others.†(What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017, side 2)

“… [t]hat Word of the living God went down into that pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life. He began to look like something the devil had never seen before. He was literally being reborn before the devil’s very eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles … Jesus was born again—the first-born from the dead the Word calls Him—and He whipped the devil in his own backrd. He took everything he had away from him. He took his keys and his authority away from him.†(“The Price of it All,†Believer’s Voice of Victory, September 1991, p. 4)

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Jesus went to hell to preach to the spirits in bondage. Those that died with God heard the good news, the Lord came and got them the heck out of there.

I guess you can now choose to disagree with the WOF regarding this heretical doctrine called Jesus Died Spiritually (JDS) or the Born Again Jesus Doctrine (BAJ)....

 

[Elijah674]

Lets not keep this thread isolated to healing back to topic...

Just one more?

It was Christ who taught us to pray... ['Thy will] be done'. Surely the best agents of satan will find Matt. 24

[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
[23] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew [[great signs and wonders;]] insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Miracles will be NO sign that it is done [by] Christ!
2 Thess. 2:9-12
[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Personally I believe we are in this time of falsehood.

--Elijah

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

What did Jesus say when they were about to stone him for making himself out to be God'?

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Ye are what? Theos. Your like me he said, why stone me? What he give them, the passage in Psalms. What happens if your not perfect and like a child of God? You get judged!!! Why do you get judged? because you were not created to be a mere man, but have the creators nature and characteristic in you.

You have taken the passage out of context. First, who are these gods that Jesus speaks of? Let us look back at Psalm 82. See below.

Who is the “divine council� They are the Sons of God mentioned in Job and elsewhere. Verse 1 and 6 uses the word elohim. That word is used only for dis-embodied spirits. It is used in the OT for YHWH, Satan, Angels, Demons, and the ghost of Samuel when he was conjured up by the witch.

Where does this divine counsel reside. Psalm 89:5-7 tells us in the sky.

5 Let the heavens praise your wonders, O Lord,
your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones!
6 For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord?
Who among the heavenly beings[b] is like the Lord,
7 a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones,
and awesome above all who are around him?

Clearly these are not men because of the promise YHWH makes to them, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;7 nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince.â€

Other translations say that they will die like mere men… Also, see the footnote below.

Psalm 82
God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
2 “How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.â€
5 They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 I said, “You are gods,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
7 nevertheless, like men you shall die,
and fall like any prince.â€[a]
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth;
for you shall inherit all the nations!
Footnotes:

1. Psalm 82:7 Or fall as one man, O princes

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Don't group a bunch of folks of any group and start to say false things about them or label them. It's not right. I can make any denomination out to be anything by hand picking some out of those denominations that have said things that might not be scriptural. I can do so because they carry the label.

I have and can back up everything that I say. I have already proven it... And those whom I picked are the founders and the movers/shakers of Word Faith...

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Money Cometh

What scripture is this! Jesus said a man is not measured by the wealth they have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zox52RHERZg

 

[reba]

2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.
Not necessarily directed at the last poster.

 

[Brother Mike]

Dag nabit Rebba.

Kennth Copeland was never a student of Brother Hagin. This guy is making stuff up!!!! Seriously ...

However, I deleted my post so you won't have to P.M me again about being nice.

 

[Brother Mike]

Psalm 82
God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
2 “How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.

I don't listen to Dr. Leroy Thompson. I have no issue with him though, and I understand His Money Cometh video. Learn to be honest, then come back and talk with me.

BTW wife and I from Champaign IL. Chicago was about 2 1/2 hour drive.

Just one more?

It was Christ who taught us to pray... ['Thy will] be done'. Surely the best agents of satan will find Matt. 24

No Brother, Jesus never Taught us that. He said pray this way, That God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Find out what God wants in Heaven, you have the will for earth. God does not have two different wills. He said whatsoever you asked for, Believe that you receive. He taught that.
John taught that we Pray according to the Will of God, that way we know He hears us (Having confidence) and if He hears we have the petition desired of him.

Jesus in the Garden was not having a healing meeting. Jesus also knew the Will of God, knew he was going to the cross. He said, take this cup from me, nevertheless........... Thy will be done. Jesus is not confused by the will of God, and we should not be confused.

If you want a Be thy Will prayer for healing then you can use the one in Luke. We need to use the right scriptures for the right situations.

Someone full of leprosy fights through the crowd and says, "Lord you can do all things, if it be thy will thou canst Heal me."

This is a prayer much like what is prayed today, "Lord you can do all things, Make mountains, if it be your will Lord, I ask you to heal me."

Jesus already answered this pray and gave the Lords will concerning Healing.

Jesus put his hand on this man full of Leprosy and said "I WILL, BE THOU CLEAN"

So Jesus already answered for you the Be thy will request for healing in Luke chapter 5. Jesus was not having a healing meeting in the Garden, nor was he confused about the Will of God.

I hope this helps you.

Blessings

Mike.

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Dag nabit Rebba. Kennth Copeland was never a student of Brother Hagin. This guy is making stuff up!!!! Seriously ... However, I deleted my post so you won't have to P.M me again about being nice.

A poverty-stricken student from Oral Roberts University attended my father's Tulsa seminars in the mid '60s and got turned onto the Word of God. The student was deeply in debt, but he desperately wanted my father's tapes. He offered to trade the title to his car for them. Buddy Harrison, my brother-in-law, was managing the ministry then. He took one look at the old car and told him, "Just go ahead and take the tapes. Bring the money when you can." So young Kenneth Copeland memorized those tapes and another great ministry was launched.
Hagin, Jr., "Trend toward the Faith Movement," p. 67

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

BTW wife and I from Champaign IL. Chicago was about 2 1/2 hour drive.

I'm in Rockford. I have a childhood friend living in Branson. Mike McDermott. He is a Christian author... He may Pastor too. Not sure though...

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

I don't listen to Dr. Leroy Thompson. I have no issue with him though, and I understand His Money Cometh video.

That is Crefalo $