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Cygnus said:
The believer has eternal life.

1 John 5:11 tells us...And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
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The believer has eternal life in them by the Holy Spirit.
I explained this.
This is not the point of contention.
You think I'm saying believers don't really have eternal life because you are only able to understand eternal life as not being able to lose it, instead of what the Bible says is eternal about eternal life.

Cygnus said:
If you are given eternal life..then it is taken away...then you were not given eternal life.
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If I gave you a car that runs forever and never stops does that mean you can't lose it?
No, of course not.
It means the car is forever, not your possession of it.
You have to stay in the car to continue to have the car that runs forever.

Your problem, as I've explained, is you are only able to comprehend eternal life as you not being able to lose it.
But the Bible explains that it is JESUS that is eternal, not your possession of it (in this life).
When you believe, you receive Jesus who is eternal and everlasting.
That is what is eternal about eternal life--Jesus is what is eternal about eternal life.
And you have to continue to believe in order to continue to possess that which is eternal.
That is the Biblical teaching about eternal life that your ear tickling OSAS doctrine is keeping you from seeing.
I showed you the scriptures, but you can't see them because you are indoctrinated by OSAS teachings that makes you only able to see scripture according to what OSAS says.
 
soil one are hardness people
soil two are emotional hearers
soil three are worldly care people
soil four are spiritual fruitful hearers

this fourth group is described in Galatians 5:22-26;
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Need I say more?
Of course I do.
You'll come up with something, and I'm ready for you, because the truth will not lose to non-OSAS-ers.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
The believer has eternal life in them by the Holy Spirit.
I explained this.
This is not the point of contention.
You think I'm saying believers don't really have eternal life because you are only able to understand eternal life as not being able to lose it, instead of what the Bible says is eternal about eternal life.


If I gave you a car that runs forever and never stops does that mean you can't lose it?
No, of course not.
It means the car is forever, not your possession of it.
You have to stay in the car to continue to have the car that runs forever.

Your problem, as I've explained, is you are only able to comprehend eternal life as you not being able to lose it.
But the Bible explains that it is JESUS that is eternal, not your possession of it (in this life).
When you believe, you receive Jesus who is eternal and everlasting.
That is what is eternal about eternal life--Jesus is what is eternal about eternal life.
And you have to continue to believe in order to continue to possess that which is eternal.
That is the Biblical teaching about eternal life that your ear tickling OSAS doctrine is keeping you from seeing.
I showed you the scriptures, but you can't see them because you are indoctrinated by OSAS teachings that makes you only able to see scripture according to what OSAS says.
Click to expand...
BUZZZZZZZZ...wrong.

It says we are given eternal life. We have it.

Oh, the Holy Spirit isn't a car.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Again, there's no mention of anyone that actually leaves.
It seems you misunderstand the verse.
You are so bent on people losing their salvation, you can't see the truth.
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Who said the passage says the genuine believers left? I didn't.

The point is, he tells the genuine believers to let the word remain in them (as opposed to the fake believers who did not and left). IF they let the word remain in them they will remain in the Son and the Father. The 'if' signifies there's the possibility these genuinely saved believers won't let the word remain in themselves--which is in complete contradiction to what OSAS says verse 19 means that genuine believers won't/can't leave. Obviously, verse 19 doesn't mean what OSAS says it means.

I think you are so bent on OSAS that you can't see the plain words of scripture right under your nose.
You're not alone. It's an indoctrination.
Calvin brought it into the church 3/4 of the way into church history around the 1500's.
It's a latter day doctrine of deceit that blinds people from seeing the plain words of scripture.
Your predetermined belief about OSAS jumps in between you and the reading/hearing of the word and causes you to not see what it says and instead see what OSAS told it says. That's how indoctrinations work. You're being deceived by a false doctrine.

Start reading the scriptures for yourself and stop letting what other people say keep you from seeing the scriptures. Don't believe what I'm saying just because I'm saying it. Test for yourself everything I've been telling you. Put the commentaries and your predetermined doctrinal beliefs on the shelf and read the word for yourself. And when you read something that doesn't jibe with what you believe, change what you believe, don't make the word change to accommodate what you believe.
 
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Jethro Bodine said:
That's what I said.
What exactly is it you are not understanding?
I know what it is, but I want you to tell me.
We'll discuss what you say.
I will address your point directly.
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If you're given eternal life...then have it taken away....how is it eternal life?
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
soil one are hardness people
soil two are emotional hearers
soil three are worldly care people
soil four are spiritual fruitful hearers

this fourth group is described in Galatians 5:22-26;
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Need I say more?
Of course I do.
You'll come up with something, and I'm ready for you, because the truth will not lose to non-OSAS-ers.
Click to expand...


So people who are being persecuted because they are Christians are really not Christians?

More left wing logic. :screwloose2


Just like the person who deserts the Army during battle to live a little longer was never really in the Army.


Don’t you understand that BECAUSE they deserted the Army PROVES they were in the Army.


How can a person desert the Army they were never in?



JLB
 
JLB said:
So people who are being persecuted because they are Christians are really not Christians?

More left wing logic. :screwloose2


Just like the person who deserts the Army during battle to live a little longer was never really in the Army.


Don’t you understand that BECAUSE they deserted the Army PROVES they were in the Army.


How can a person desert the Army they were never in?



JLB
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No, man. The devil pokes at everyone. You know you are in the army of God when you can stand firm against your enemy. He is God!
 
LovethroughDove said:
No, man. The devil pokes at everyone. You know you are in the army of God when you can stand firm against your enemy. He is God!
Click to expand...

I thought the Bible says because we believe?

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

So we don’t really know if we’re Christians until we’re persecuted?

OK, I’ll fix that mistake.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him stands firm against the enemy should not perish but have everlasting life.
LovethroughDove 3:16


Got it.



JLB
 
JLB said:
I thought the Bible says because you believe?

So we don’t really know if we’re Christians until we’re persecuted?


JLB
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Persecuted by the devil and the devil takes many forms. They can't stand under the pressure. I look at Job. Job and me are of the same belief. Do what you want to me devil.........I will not curse God!
 
LovethroughDove said:
Job and me are of the same belief. Do what you want to me devil.........I will not curse God!
Click to expand...

Me too. Been there done that.


Nevertheless, Jesus said we are saved when we believe.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12



JLB
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Who said the passage says the genuine believers left? I didn't.

The point is, he tells the genuine believers to let the word remain in them (as opposed to the fake believers who did not and left). IF they let the word remain in them they will remain in the Son and the Father. The 'if' signifies there's the possibility these genuinely saved believers won't let the word remain in themselves--which is in complete contradiction to what OSAS says verse 19 means that genuine believers won't/can't leave. Obviously, verse 19 doesn't mean what OSAS says it means.

I think you are so bent on OSAS that you can't see the plain words of scripture right under your nose.
You're not alone. It's an indoctrination.
Calvin brought it into the church 3/4 of the way into church history around the 1500's.
It's a latter day doctrine of deceit that blinds people from seeing the plain words of scripture.
Your predetermined belief about OSAS jumps in between you and the reading/hearing of the word and causes you to not see what it says and instead see what OSAS told it says. That's how indoctrinations work. You're being deceived by a false doctrine.

Start reading the scriptures for yourself and stop letting what other people say keep you from seeing the scriptures. Don't believe what I'm saying just because I'm saying it. Test for yourself everything I've been telling you. Put the commentaries and your predetermined doctrinal beliefs on the shelf and read the word for yourself. And when you read something that doesn't jibe with what you believe, change what you believe, don't make the word change to accommodate what you believe.
Click to expand...
There you with the doctrine of deceit.
I never claimed any belief in the doctrine, yet you keep preaching it at me because put me with "you people".
 
JLB said:
So people who are being persecuted because they are Christians are really not Christians?

More left wing logic. :screwloose2


Just like the person who deserts the Army during battle to live a little longer was never really in the Army.


Don’t you understand that BECAUSE they deserted the Army PROVES they were in the Army.


How can a person desert the Army they were never in?



JLB
Click to expand...
Oh, we're talking army now.
What did you serve in, which unit?
Where did you serve?
Let's find some common ground and talk about what we are familiar with.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Oh, we're talking army now.
What did you serve in, which unit?
Where did you serve?
Let's find some common ground and talk about what we are familiar with.
Click to expand...

Air Force.

Im no longer in the Air Force.

Does that mean I was never “really” in the Air Force?


JLB
 
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JLB said:
I thought the Bible says because we believe?

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

So we don’t really know if we’re Christians until we’re persecuted?
Click to expand...
It shows the anointing of His Spirit on you.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
soil one are hardness people
soil two are emotional hearers
soil three are worldly care people
soil four are spiritual fruitful hearers

this fourth group is described in Galatians 5:22-26;
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Need I say more?
Of course I do.
You'll come up with something, and I'm ready for you, because the truth will not lose to non-OSAS-ers.
Click to expand...
You described the soil perfect. Amen
 
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