Forever Secure

[Rollo Tamasi]

Air Force.

Im no longer in the Air Force.

Does that mean I was never in the Air Force?


JLB

In the army people get drafted.
That doesn't mean they ever had a heart felt desire to serve.
If they deserted or not, it doesn't mean they ever felt like they belonged.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Air Force.

Im no longer in the Air Force.

Does that mean I was never in the Air Force?


JLB

You have to say it right....

"Does that mean I was never really in the Air Force?"

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I never claimed any belief in the doctrine, yet you keep preaching it at me because put me with "you people".

Whether you realize it or not, if you believe OSAS you believe in that part of Calvin's doctrine.
You are indeed among 'you people' who believe in OSAS.
I'm a part of 'you people' who don't.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you're given eternal life...then have it taken away....how is it eternal life?

I have a 'forever stamp'.

Does that mean I can never lose it?
Or does it mean it's value towards mailing a letter will last forever and never need to be replenished?

 

[JLB]

In the army people get drafted.
That doesn't mean they ever had a heart felt desire to serve.
If they deserted or not, it doesn't mean they ever felt like they belonged.

God doesn’t “draft” people into His kingdom.

Just like a man doesn’t “draft” his wife into marriage.


If a husband divorces his wife because she was unfaithful to him, does that mean they were never really married?


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you're given eternal life...then have it taken away....how is it eternal life?

If I am given a forever stamp for free, but I choose not to keep it, that doesn't mean it's not really a forever stamp.
Obviously, 'forever' doesn't mean I can't lose it. It means the stamp itself will forever have value in mailing a letter to it's destination, unlike the old stamps. My possession of it is forever if, and only if, I hold onto it.

This is the exact mistake you are making in regard to eternal life.
It's eternal because it's value in making you perfect lasts forever, not because you can not lose it.
You only get to keep the life that lasts forever if, and only if, you continue to believe in Christ.

 

[JLB]

You described the soil perfect. Amen

Actually he didn’t.

Jesus teaches us the condition for a person to be saved.

Jesus said believe (the kind of believing He means) equals being saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Why in the next verse would Jesus be referring to some other kind of believing? Like “emotional believing”.

The answer is: He wouldn’t

Applying your own speculation about these being only “emotional hearers” is utterly ridiculous.

We know what the conditions as Jesus told us.

For us to ignore what Jesus taught and supplant His teaching with our own ”spin” because we don’t like what Jesus taught is completely deceitful.


In the next verse He describes a different set of circumstances which is persecution.

• Believers are being persecuted.
• The reason they are being persecuted is because they are indeed believers, Christians, followers of Christ.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


We don’t need to try and speculate about whether or not these folks who are being persecuted for being Christians, are believers or not, they are in fact being persecuted
BECAUSE they are believers.

The reason we know they are believers is because Jesus said they believe.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

What caused them to stop believing is the persecution, they gave in to the temptation to save their natural life, by turning away from Christ, renouncing Him as a false prophet and not the Son of God, ... NOT because they were “emotional hears“.


How can a person possibly fall away from Christ, that never believed in the first place?


When you understand that Jesus is talking about believers being persecuted and the temptation they succumb to is the temptation to stop the persecution by turning away from Christ, then you understand that these people that Jesus is describing are indeed believers.



JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Actually he didn’t.

Jesus teaches us the condition for a person to be saved.

Jesus said believe (the kind of believing He means) equals being saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Why in the next verse would Jesus be referring to some other kind of believing? Like “emotional believing”.

The answer is: He wouldn’t

Applying your own speculation about these being only “emotional hearers” is utterly ridiculous.

We know what the conditions as Jesus told us.

For us to ignore what Jesus taught and supplant His teaching with our own ”spin” because we don’t like what Jesus taught is completely deceitful.


In the next verse He describes a different set of circumstances which is persecution.

• Believers are being persecuted.
• The reason they are being persecuted is because they are indeed believers, Christians, followers of Christ.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


We don’t need to try and speculate about whether or not these folks who are being persecuted for being Christians, are believers or not, they are in fact being persecuted
BECAUSE they are believers.

The reason we know they are believers is because Jesus said they believe.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

What caused them to stop believing is the persecution, they gave in to the temptation to save their natural life, by turning away from Christ, renouncing Him as a false prophet and not the Son of God, ... NOT because they were “emotional hears“.


How can a person possibly fall away from Christ, that never believed in the first place?


When you understand that Jesus is talking about believers being persecuted and the temptation they succumb to is the temptation to stop the persecution by turning away from Christ, then you understand that these people that Jesus is describing are indeed believers.



JLB

In my opinion, you are misrepresented the truth of Scripture.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

If I am given a forever stamp for free, but I choose not to keep it, that doesn't mean it's not really a forever stamp.
Obviously, 'forever' doesn't mean I can't lose it. It means the stamp itself will forever have value in mailing a letter to it's destination, unlike the old stamps. My possession of it is forever if, and only if, I hold onto it.

This is the exact mistake you are making in regard to eternal life.
It's eternal because it's value in making you perfect lasts forever, not because you can not lose it.
You only get to keep the life that lasts forever if, and only if, you continue to believe in Christ.

In my opinion, you are misrepresenting the truth.

 

[JLB]

In my opinion, you are misrepresented the truth of Scripture.

Your opinion is Not what we are building our lives upon.

Jesus Christ and His doctrine is the unshakable foundation We are building our lives upon.

When the day comes and you have to make a decision to stand for what you believe even if it means being tortured and burned alive, like millions of Christians suffered under the Catholic Church in the dark ages, all your jokes and sarcastic comments won’t save you.


But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21


For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.


If you turn from Christ and renounce Him to save your life,
you are lost forever.





JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We know 1 John 2:19 doesn't mean what OSAS says it means by the simple fact that just a few verses later John says this to those believers who remain:

"24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life." - 1 John 2:24-25

Understand?

You should have kept on reading...

If you don't remain you will be not be confident and unashamed before Him at His coming. The anointing a believer receives from Him is part of what will not remain in you.

Context Jethro...Context.

So remaining in him means salvation in verse 19, but suddenly means the anointing in verse 24? I think you're the one ignoring context.

Why does OSAS say 1 John 2:19 means that if anyone leaves that means they were never saved to begin with, while just a few verses later (1 John 2:24) John exhorts the genuine believers who did not leave to remain? That's contradictory. If verse 19 meant what OSAS says it means John would not be telling them to see to it that they remain. Obviously, verse 19 doesn't mean what OSAS says it means. Address that point, please.

 

[Cygnus]

I have a 'forever stamp'.
View attachment 10061
Does that mean I can never lose it?
Or does it mean it's value towards mailing a letter will last forever and never need to be replenished?

No wonder your theology is messed up....Jesus is not a stamp.

 

[JLB]

No wonder your theology is messed up....Jesus is not a stamp.

Neither is Jesus a grape vine, but He used it to illustrate the need for us, the branches, to remain in Him.

You don’t have an answer for his parabolic reference, so you just blatantly attack him, saying his Theology is messed up?


Sad.




JLB

 

[Cygnus]

Your opinion is Not what we are building our lives upon.

Jesus Christ and His doctrine is the unshakable foundation We are building our lives upon.

Yes, we are building our doctrine...on the foundation of Jesus. the Bible speaks of this in 1 Cor 3

12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward.15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames.​

Notice each man works will be judged. Those that build on false theology like you will have their false theology judged. You would have them go to hell. But if you notice they are saved.

 

[Cygnus]

You don’t have an answer for his parabolic reference, so you just blatantly attack him, saying his Theology is messed up?


Sad.




JLB

He was comparing salvation to a stamp...that's very strange.

 

[Cygnus]

So remaining in him means salvation in verse 19, but suddenly means the anointing in verse 24? I think you're the one ignoring context.

Long sigh....remaining in him means a bit more that you know. Why do people always have to point you to the context ?

 

[JLB]

No wonder your theology is messed up....Jesus is not a stamp.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2


If you are removed from Christ, does that mean He is no longer eternal life?


JLB

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

So what you're saying is that you don't believe that YOU are saved unless you get lucky on judgment day.
Sort of like winning the lottery.

I never said such. You put words in my mouth. 1 Jn 2:3; 1 Jn 5:2 one can know they are saved when they keep Gid;s commandments.

 

[Cygnus]

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2


If you are removed from Christ, does that mean He is no longer eternal life?


JLB

There are many in the church that are pew warmers.

 

[JLB]

He was comparing salvation to a stamp...that's very strange.

Does a forever stamp stop being a “forever” stamp if you exchange it for a candy bar?



JLB