Forever Secure

[Cygnus]

I never said such. You put words in my mouth. 1 Jn 2:3; 1 Jn 5:2 one can know they are saved when they keep Gid;s commandments.

We've already demonstrated to you that you don't keep Gods commandments.....buy your own words and theology you are lost and going to hell.

 

[JLB]

There are many in the church that are pew warmers.

Of course there are.


Now back to the question.

Obviously a person “in Christ” refers to someone who has eternal life.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2


If you are removed from Christ, does that mean He is no longer eternal life?


JLB

 

[Cygnus]

Does a forever stamp stop being a “forever” stamp if you exchange it for a candy bar?



JLB

Does truth become non-truth when you exchange it for a lie?

 

[Cygnus]

Of course there are.


Now back to the question.

Obviously a person “in Christ” refers to someone who has eternal life.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2


If you are removed from Christ, does that mean He is no longer eternal life?


JLB

There are many in the church that claim to be christians.

 

[JLB]

Does truth become non-truth when you exchange it for a lie?

No. The truth is the truth.


Now back to the question.

Obviously a person “in Christ” refers to someone who has eternal life.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2


If you are removed from Christ, does that mean He is no longer eternal life?


JLB

 

[JLB]

There are many in the church that claim to be christians.

Yes agreed.

But my question isn’t about those who claim to be Christians.

My question is about those who are “in Christ”.

Obviously a person “in Christ” refers to someone who has eternal life.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2


If you are removed from Christ, does that mean He is no longer eternal life?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The word perish here doesn't mean eternal damnation. You do know perish has several nuances? The idea is more so likened to ruin and destruction

1 Tim 6:9 Those who want to be rich, however, fall into temptation and become ensnared by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction.

2 Peter 2:1-3 has more on the topic....1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

I trust you stand corrected.

The word perish in this context does mean to be lost. He was commanded to pray for "forgiveness". Forgiveness is required to be saved. Hence he lost salvation then needed to repent to be forgiveness, gain salvation back. 1 Tim 6:9 refers to destruction of both body and soul as it does in 2 Pet 2:1-2. Do you think those that believe false teachers will be saved or in destruction?

YOu have not given any proof they Simon was never saved. According to Christ's own words Mk 16:16 Simon and those Samaritans were saved when they believed and were baptized and that Simon ALSO did as the Samaritans. If there is reason to think Simon was not saved then no reason to think those Samaritans were saved either.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

We've already demonstrated to you that you don't keep Gods commandments.....buy your own words and theology you are lost and going to hell.

No one keeps God's commands perfectly, I am not perfectly sinless. But God does not require the Christian to be perfectly sinless as you do. God requires a simple faithful obedience which includes repentance for the times the Christian does sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No wonder your theology is messed up....Jesus is not a stamp.

He is the stamp you are sealed with by which you are delivered safely to the kingdom of God.
I thought you'd catch that right away.

The value of his stamp on your life is what is 'forever' and never loses it's value towards delivering you safely to the kingdom of God. But Freegrace OSAS says the 'foreverness' of Christ's ministry means you can never lose it no matter what. That false doctrine has lead a lot of people into the complacency and fruitlessness of a dead faith they think is going to save them when Jesus returns.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I never said such. You put words in my mouth. 1 Jn 2:3; 1 Jn 5:2 one can know they are saved when they keep Gid;s commandments.

I've been saying that all along.
But you seem to be saying that you could lose your salvation, therefore you can't know that you are saved unless you do good works (keeping commandments).
Therefore, you are putting your salvation in your own hands and taking it away from God and his mercy.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Long sigh....remaining in him means a bit more that you know. Why do people always have to point you to the context ?

Then explain.
Why does remaining in him mean remaining in him in salvation in 1 John 2:19, but suddenly remaining in him doesn't really mean remaining in him in salvation in 1 John 2:24?

Use all the context you want to explain why OSAS changes 'remaining' from that of remaining in salvation in verse 19 to that of remaining in the anointing in verse 24. Obviously, this is just another example of OSAS ignoring context to make a verse 'not really' mean what it says.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Therefore, you are putting your salvation in your own hands and taking it away from God and his mercy.

Show us in the Bible where believing in order to be saved, and continuing to believe in order to stay saved is somehow 'taking it (salvation) away from God and his mercy'.

Believing is how you access the mercy of God in salvation.
Your life of ever increasing works is the evidence and assurance that you have indeed accessed that salvation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But you seem to be saying that you could lose your salvation, therefore you can't know that you are saved unless you do good works (keeping commandments).

Don't you know that the Bible says it is by your works of righteousness that you make your calling and election sure?
IOW, the Holy Spirit working through you is how you know for sure that you have the Holy Spirit in you in salvation.
Without this assurance you can't know for sure you are really saved.
And this assurance of your salvation through your deeds is what removes all fear of the coming Day of Judgment (the fear that OSASer's are sure non-OSASer's have to have).
I will gladly supply Biblical references for all this if you want.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Of course there are.


Now back to the question.

Obviously a person “in Christ” refers to someone who has eternal life.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2


If you are removed from Christ, does that mean He is no longer eternal life?


JLB

This reference is him as the Word. John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Go down a little further in scripture and he explains this

John 14:7 If you remain in me, and my words remain in you

Jesus is literally the Word also, and I've explained this before but it gets ignored.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Actually he didn’t.

Jesus teaches us the condition for a person to be saved.

Jesus said believe (the kind of believing He means) equals being saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Why in the next verse would Jesus be referring to some other kind of believing? Like “emotional believing”.

The answer is: He wouldn’t

Applying your own speculation about these being only “emotional hearers” is utterly ridiculous.

We know what the conditions as Jesus told us.

For us to ignore what Jesus taught and supplant His teaching with our own ”spin” because we don’t like what Jesus taught is completely deceitful.


In the next verse He describes a different set of circumstances which is persecution.

• Believers are being persecuted.
• The reason they are being persecuted is because they are indeed believers, Christians, followers of Christ.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


We don’t need to try and speculate about whether or not these folks who are being persecuted for being Christians, are believers or not, they are in fact being persecuted
BECAUSE they are believers.

The reason we know they are believers is because Jesus said they believe.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

What caused them to stop believing is the persecution, they gave in to the temptation to save their natural life, by turning away from Christ, renouncing Him as a false prophet and not the Son of God, ... NOT because they were “emotional hears“.


How can a person possibly fall away from Christ, that never believed in the first place?


When you understand that Jesus is talking about believers being persecuted and the temptation they succumb to is the temptation to stop the persecution by turning away from Christ, then you understand that these people that Jesus is describing are indeed believers.



JLB

Luke 8:11 This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God

Allen was absolutely correct with what those different people did with the Word. You are adding fall away from Christ. It does not say that in the parable!

 

[JLB]

This reference is him as the Word. John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Go down a little further in scripture and he explains this

John 14:7 If you remain in me, and my words remain in you

Jesus is literally the Word also, and I've explained this before but it gets ignored.

I don’t see how this answers my question.

Can you just answer my question?


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2


If you are removed from Christ, does that mean He is no longer eternal life?

 

[LovethroughDove]

I don’t see how this answers my question.

Can you just answer my question?


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2


If you are removed from Christ, does that mean He is no longer eternal life?

No, it means you will not remain interested in the Bible because you are not putting the Word to use. You will not see the spiritual fruit it produces in your life.

You're probably going to jump on me because the Bible is not literally saying what I just said, but that is why Jesus speaks in parables.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I don’t see how this answers my question.

Can you just answer my question?


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2


If you are removed from Christ, does that mean He is no longer eternal life?

Who is it that does not bear fruit?
Judas?
Did he lose his salvation?

 

[JLB]

Luke 8:11 This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God

Allen was absolutely correct with what those different people did with the Word. You are adding fall away from Christ. It does not say that in the parable!

Making up something that doesn’t exist in God’s word is certainly not correct, nor will it ever be correct.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

How is it Jesus said those who believe are saved, but in the next verse you make up some other believing (emotional) that isn’t in the text?

• But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These people did in fact believe, thus fulfilling the requirement for salvation that Jesus Christ Himself said fulfilled the requirement for salvation.


Yet you come along and over rule what Jesus said, by inserting a false narrative that is not mentioned in the text.


Where is emotional believing mentioned in this text?



JLB

 

[JLB]

No, it means you will not remain interested in the Bible because you are not putting the Word to use. You will not see the spiritual fruit it produces in your life.

You're probably going to jump on me because the Bible is not literally saying what I just said, but that is why Jesus speaks in parables.

Not remain interested in the Bible?

These people are in Christ.


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2


If you are removed from Christ, does that mean He is no longer eternal life?


JLB