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Forever Secure

Cygnus said:
Once again..those that he takes away never had a saving relationship. They may appear to be saved or attached to the vine but in reality they are not.
Click to expand...

They may appear to be attached to the vine?

No, Cygnus Jesus is actually referring to those who are in Him.

Not “appear to be” in Him..

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2

  • Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Jesus warns us we must remain in Him. Those who are in Him, must remain in Him, or be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

His Commandments are about love.

Loving God and loving people.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

His Commandments are not burdensome.

Why wouldn’t anyone who is in Christ, not want to love Him and love His people?


Why are you fighting against His word?


If we believe Jesus Christ is Lord, why wouldn’t we want to obey Him as our Lord?





JLB
 
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Rollo Tamasi said:
I don't see how Hebrews 10 supports non-OSAS at all.
If these are the verses you keep pushing to prove your point, then you've got nothing.
Click to expand...
I've got everything.
Hebrews chapter 10 plainly says if those who have been sanctified by the blood of Christ trample on the Son of God and profane His blood and insult the Spirit they will lose that sanctification and go to hell:

10 ...we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 ...He has made perfect for all time those who are being sanctified.

29How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 10:10,14,29

You can't see it because you are sure there are other verses of scripture that make this not really mean what it plainly says. Right?
Bring those passages to the forum and let's talk about them.
 
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Reactions: JLB
JLB said:
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


Where does it say they were emotional hearers?



JLB
Click to expand...
Receive with joy?
Then walk away because of temptation?
Does that sound like a born again believer to you?
Not in my book.

If you think that's how a born again believer can act, then we'll never agree on anything.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Receive with joy?
Then walk away because of temptation?
Does that sound like a born again believer to you?
Not in my book.

If you think that's how a born again believer can act, then we'll never agree on anything.
Click to expand...

Yes. It’s most definitely a believer.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

All these words mean something.

Do you understand what the temptation is?


JLB
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Receive with joy?
Click to expand...

Let’s allow the scriptures to define what the term receive the word means.


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2


Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17


Receive the word means saved; baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.




JLB
 
Cygnus said:
Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If you've lost your salvation and thrown into hell...then you've been separated from the love of God. non-OSAS is a contradiction of Gods holy Word.
Click to expand...
Context, Cygnus, context.

Who's the 'us' in 'nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God'?
It's believers who love God and don't want to be separated from the love of God.

"28 And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him" - Romans 8:28

Romans 8:38-39 is about the things that can not separate believers who love God from the love of God against their will.
Hebrews 10:26,27,28,29,30,31 is about (ex) believers who show contempt for the love of God and don't care about the love of God they have in Christ. They get separated from the love of God and go to hell.
 
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JLB said:
They may appear to be attached to the vine?

No, Cygnus Jesus is actually referring to those who are in Him.

Not “appear to be” in Him..

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2

  • Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Jesus warns us we must remain in Him. Those who are in Him, must remain in Him, or be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

His Commandments are about love.

Loving God and loving people.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

His Commandments are not burdensome.

Why wouldn’t anyone who is in Christ, not want to love Him and love His people?


Why are you fighting against His word?


If we believe Jesus Christ is Lord, why wouldn’t we want to obey Him as our Lord?





JLB
Click to expand...
That was my question to you
Was Judas saved?
He was in Jesus for 3 years but never called him Lord.

Judas was in Jesus for 3 years
The he decides to turn him in for money
Then he decides to commit suicide

How does all that fit in with your non-OSAS?
Don't like the example?
You give us an example of a person in Scripture where a person (a real person) loses their salvation

My answer to Judas is that he was never saved to begin with even though he was in Jesus for over 3 years.
Jethro Bodine said:
I've got everything.
Hebrews chapter 10 plainly says if those who have been sanctified by the blood of Christ trample on the Son of God and profane His blood and insult the Spirit they will lose that sanctification and go to hell:

10 ...we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 ...He has made perfect for all time those who are being sanctified.

29How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 10:10,14,29

You can't see it because you are sure there are other verses of scripture that make this not really mean what it plainly says. Right?
Bring those passages to the forum and let's talk about them.
Click to expand...
1 John 3:9, “No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.”
We have a conflict of Scripture here that needs to be settled before we go on, other wise we are just blowing hot air.
 
JLB said:
Let’s allow the scriptures to define what the term receive the word means.


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2


Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17


Receive the word means saved; baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.




JLB
Click to expand...
JLB, you can go around in circles all day and never admit you are not right.
Debating you is not a debate at all.

Come on, you quote 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
"unless you believed in vain?"
Is that being born again?
How does that prove a point for you?
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
You give us an example of a person in Scripture where a person (a real person) loses their salvation
Click to expand...

Give me an example of a real person who inherits eternal life on the Day of Judgement.



JLB
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
JLB, you can go around in circles all day and never admit you are not right.
Debating you is not a debate at all.

Come on, you quote 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
"unless you believed in vain?"
Is that being born again?
How does that prove a point for you?
Click to expand...
Does believing in vain change the fact that you are saved if you hold fast the gospel message?
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
JLB, you can go around in circles all day and never admit you are not right.
Debating you is not a debate at all.

Come on, you quote 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
"unless you believed in vain?"
Is that being born again?
How does that prove a point for you?
Click to expand...


It’s an example of people who “received“ the Gospel message.

This is an example of what “receive the Gospel“ means.


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2



JLB
 
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