Forever Secure

[JLB]

Why aren't you saying that to your ally?
He's the one who asked for my opinion.

He always uses scripture then discusses the scripture he uses.

 

[JLB]

My answer to Judas is that he was never saved to begin with even though he was in Jesus for over 3 years.

Please post the scriptures for your belief.

 

[JLB]

Lol, finally, I've got something to use on you in the future..
"I" have won, finally.
Thanks buddy.

Do you understand what the temptation is?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

1 John 3:9, “No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.”
We have a conflict of Scripture here that needs to be settled before we go on, other wise we are just blowing hot air.

Yes, people who continue to believe and trust in Jesus do not make a practice of sinning.
That's a good reason why we should keep on believing.

It's the believer who falls away into unbelief who no longer has the power of God to not make sinning a way of life.

 

[Cygnus]

All opinion.

True opinion.

 

[Cygnus]

They may appear to be attached to the vine?

No, Cygnus Jesus is actually referring to those who are in Him.

Not “appear to be” in Him..

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Jesus warns us we must remain in Him. Those who are in Him, must remain in Him, or be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

His Commandments are about love.

Loving God and loving people.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

His Commandments are not burdensome.

Why wouldn’t anyone who is in Christ, not want to love Him and love His people?


Why are you fighting against His word?


If we believe Jesus Christ is Lord, why wouldn’t we want to obey Him as our Lord?





JLB

Once again...many play christian.

 

[Cygnus]

Yes, people who continue to believe and trust in Jesus do not make a practice of sinning.
That's a good reason why we should keep on believing.

It's the believer who falls away into unbelief who no longer has the power of God to not make sinning a way of life.

You still sin.

 

[Cygnus]

It’s an example of people who “received“ the Gospel message.

This is an example of what “receive the Gospel“ means.


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2



JLB

Hold to the gospel....the good news......the gospel I preached to you..Jesus died for your sins...th one you have believed.....if not your belief is in vain. You may think you're in me, part of the vine, walking in the light...but you've added to the gospel...made requirement for salvation...and your false faith is in vain.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You still sin.

Yep.
And as long as I keep believing in Christ my sins will be forgiven, and I will live in ever increasing righteous living.
But if I fall back into unbelief my sins will no longer be forgiven, and I will fall back into ever increasing unrighteous living.

The promise of 1 John 3:9 is for believers, not ex-believers.

 

[netchaplain]

There is no security in anything unless we are keeping OBEYING Christ's commadments . Jesus Himself says (John 14:15) " If you love me, you shall keep my commandments. "
What Christ is saying in simple words is if you're NOT keeping my commandments you have NO love for me.
How then is anyone who is not keeping the Lord's commandments safe n secure in their salvation? Based on whose assurances, when the ultimate authority, Christ Himself, is issuing this sobering caveat to all believers ?

If one is truly in the Lord Jesus, he will truly love and obey Him (Phl 2:13). One cannot honestly claim faith apart from the works of it (Jam 2:18); and the works that are counterfeit are those that are apart from love. It's not obedience that saves, but only evinces love and salvation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's not obedience that saves, but only evinces love and salvation.

Maybe you're just echoing the point he's making.
But if not, he is in no way saying obedience is required to earn salvation.
Works are necessary to give confirmation and assurance that one is saved.

 

[JLB]

Once again...many play christian.

Jesus is not referring to those who are “playing” Christian.

He is referring to those who are “in Him”.

I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Jesus warns us we must remain in Him. Those who are in Him, must remain in Him, or be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6



Do You believe people who are removed from Christ, still have eternal life?





JLB

 

[JLB]

Hold to the gospel....the good news......the gospel I preached to you..Jesus died for your sins...th one you have believed.....if not your belief is in vain. You may think you're in me, part of the vine, walking in the light...but you've added to the gospel...made requirement for salvation...and your false faith is in vain.

Exactly.


If we do not continue to hold fast the word by which we were saved, then our initial believing was useless.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Maybe you're just echoing the point he's making.
But if not, he is in no way saying obedience is required to earn salvation.
Works are necessary to give confirmation and assurance that one is saved.

Works are necessary to give confirmation and assurance that one is saved.

You may not see someone's works, but you still judge them.
Your whole stance on non-OSAS is filled with judgment.
Non-OSAS doesn't exist without judgment.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Jesus is not referring to those who are “playing” Christian.

He is referring to those who are “in Him”.

I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Jesus warns us we must remain in Him. Those who are in Him, must remain in Him, or be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6



Do You believe people who are removed from Christ, still have eternal life?





JLB

Saying someone is in Christ is no guarantee they were ever saved to begin with.
You base your whole debate on this assumption.
Why else would he cast them out?

Matthew 22:11-13;

 

[JLB]

Saying someone is in Christ is no guarantee they were ever saved to begin with.
You base your whole debate on this assumption.
Why else would he cast them out?

Matthew 22:11-13;

When Jesus says they are in Him then you are forced to submit to His truth.


Therefore your false narrative is nothing more that chaff in the wind.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Why else would he cast them out

Because they don't obey Him.

This is the truth that John so plainly teaches.

Maybe if you read what the Bible says you would know the answer.


he who keeps His commandments abides in Him

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24

Stubborn stiffneck people who refuse to love dont remain in Christ.




JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

When Jesus says they are in Him then you are forced to submit to His truth.


Therefore your false narrative is nothing more that chaff in the wind.


JLB

Lol, you enjoy talking like that, don't you?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Because they don't obey Him.

This is the truth that John so plainly teaches.

Maybe if you read what the Bible says you would know the answer.


he who keeps His commandments abides in Him

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24

Stubborn stiffneck people who refuse to love dont remain in Christ.




JLB

But were they ever saved to begin with?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You tell me..you believe in what your teachers have falsely taught you...that is you can loose your salvation.

The Bible teaches salvation is CONDITIONAL. It gives many warnings, admonishments about falling way becoming an apostate and gives examples of those that fell away.

Those false teachers that give people a free pass to sin, then when they go out and lie, cheat, steal, etc those false teachers refuse to accept responsibility for what they have created.

"Sam Morris, a Baptist preacher in Stamford, Texas wrote a little tract explaining that all the sins one may commit cannot harm the soul or cause the person to be lost. Look at the quote: “We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn his soul. The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... All the prayers a man may pray, all the Bibles he may read, all the churches he may belong to, all the services he may attend, all the sermons he may practice, all the debts he may pay, all the or-dinances he may observe, all the laws he may keep, all the benevolent acts he may per-form will not make his soul one whit safer; and all the sins he may commit from idolatry to murder will not make his soul in any more danger... The way a man lives has nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... The way I live has nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of my soul" [Do a Christian’s Sins Damn His Soul?]."

Hoyt Chastain was a Missionary Baptist preacher who defended, in public debate, the idea that a child of God cannot fall from grace. In one debate Chastain affirmed that he could abandon his wife and children, move in with a sixteen-year-old girl, and the Lord would take the situation and “work it out for his good.” Unbelievable!

Case in point. Another Baptist preacher, 54-year-old J. L. Pettit, seduced a fourteen-year-old girl. He was arrested and brought to trial. The girl swore on the witness stand that the minister told her their sexual activity was merely a “matter of the flesh,” and it would not “bother the soul.”

Bill Foster, Baptist preacher in Louisville, KY commented: "If I killed my wife and mother and debauched a thousand women, I couldn't go to hell -- in fact, I couldn't go to hell if I wanted to. If on the judgment day, I should find that my loved ones are lost and should lose all desire to be saved, and should beg God to send me to hell with them, He couldn't do it" (The Weekly Worker, March 12, 1959)."

Is "Once Saved -- Always Saved?" a Bible Doctrine?

www.lavistachurchofchrist.org