Forever Secure

[JLB]

But were they ever saved to begin with?

Brother, if you don’t know the answer to that question, why are you arguing so much?


How can a person be “in Christ” and not be saved?


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

If a person is “in Christ” it’s because the Spirit has baptized you into Christ.

You are now one with Christ.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17


If you are in Christ, you are joined to Him, and are one spirit with Him, being one spirit with eternal life.

You have been made to drink of the Spirit of life in Christ.





JLB

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I've been saying that all along.
But you seem to be saying that you could lose your salvation, therefore you can't know that you are saved unless you do good works (keeping commandments).
Therefore, you are putting your salvation in your own hands and taking it away from God and his mercy.

Christians can lose the promise of salvation (1 Jn 2:25). Salvation is CONDITIONAL and one therefore gains salvation by meeting the required conditions (as faith, Eph 2:8, doing good works Eph 2:10) and one must CONTINUE to meet the required conditions. IF one quits meeting the conditions he no longer has the promise of eternal life. OSAS falsely claims eternal life is totally, completely UNconditional.

 

[Cygnus]

Yep.
And as long as I keep believing in Christ my sins will be forgiven, and I will live in ever increasing righteous living.
But if I fall back into unbelief my sins will no longer be forgiven, and I will fall back into ever increasing unrighteous living.

The promise of 1 John 3:9 is for believers, not ex-believers.

I'm glad Jesus won't do that to me. Jesus' elect are un-snatchable.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Brother, if you don’t know the answer to that question, why are you arguing so much?


How can a person be “in Christ” and not be saved?


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

If a person is “in Christ” it’s because the Spirit has baptized you into Christ.

You are now one with Christ.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17


If you are in Christ, you are joined to Him, and are one spirit with Him, being one spirit with eternal life.

You have been made to drink of the Spirit of life in Christ.





JLB

Brother if you don't know the answer to my question, then why are you arguing so much?

Was Judas Iscariot, who was in Christ for more then 3 years, ever saved?
Was Judas Iscariot ever saved?
Was Judas Iscariot ever saved?

How many times do I have to ask?

How come none of you non-OSAS'ers never jump in with an answer?

 

[Cygnus]

Jesus is not referring to those who are “playing” Christian.

He is referring to those who are “in Him”.

I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Jesus warns us we must remain in Him. Those who are in Him, must remain in Him, or be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6



Do You believe people who are removed from Christ, still have eternal life?





JLB

John 6:
56Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me.58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.”

59Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. 60On hearing it, many of His disciples said, “This is a difficult teaching. Who can accept it?”

61Aware that His disciples were grumbling about this teaching, Jesus asked them, “Does this offend you? 62Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before?

63The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64However, there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.)

65Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”

66From that time on many of His disciples turned back and no longer walked with Him.


Many were following Jesus...but didn't believe. They never believed. I have given you that answer several times now.

 

[Cygnus]

Exactly.


If we do not continue to hold fast the word by which we were saved, then our initial believing was useless.

What must one do to be saved?

 

[Cygnus]

Those false teachers that give people a free pass to sin, then when they go out and lie, cheat, steal, etc those false teachers refuse to accept responsibility for what they have created.

The non-OSAS crowd is guilty....they say you can go out and lie, cheat, steal, etc....as long as you still believe in Jesus you're OK.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

What must one do to be saved?

To believe that Jesus is God.

 

[Cygnus]

The Bible teaches salvation is CONDITIONAL. It gives many warnings, admonishments about falling way becoming an apostate and gives examples of those that fell away.

Those false teachers that give people a free pass to sin, then when they go out and lie, cheat, steal, etc those false teachers refuse to accept responsibility for what they have created.

"Sam Morris, a Baptist preacher in Stamford, Texas wrote a little tract explaining that all the sins one may commit cannot harm the soul or cause the person to be lost. Look at the quote: “We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn his soul. The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... All the prayers a man may pray, all the Bibles he may read, all the churches he may belong to, all the services he may attend, all the sermons he may practice, all the debts he may pay, all the or-dinances he may observe, all the laws he may keep, all the benevolent acts he may per-form will not make his soul one whit safer; and all the sins he may commit from idolatry to murder will not make his soul in any more danger... The way a man lives has nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... The way I live has nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of my soul" [Do a Christian’s Sins Damn His Soul?]."

Hoyt Chastain was a Missionary Baptist preacher who defended, in public debate, the idea that a child of God cannot fall from grace. In one debate Chastain affirmed that he could abandon his wife and children, move in with a sixteen-year-old girl, and the Lord would take the situation and “work it out for his good.” Unbelievable!

Case in point. Another Baptist preacher, 54-year-old J. L. Pettit, seduced a fourteen-year-old girl. He was arrested and brought to trial. The girl swore on the witness stand that the minister told her their sexual activity was merely a “matter of the flesh,” and it would not “bother the soul.”

Bill Foster, Baptist preacher in Louisville, KY commented: "If I killed my wife and mother and debauched a thousand women, I couldn't go to hell -- in fact, I couldn't go to hell if I wanted to. If on the judgment day, I should find that my loved ones are lost and should lose all desire to be saved, and should beg God to send me to hell with them, He couldn't do it" (The Weekly Worker, March 12, 1959)."

Is "Once Saved -- Always Saved?" a Bible Doctrine?

www.lavistachurchofchrist.org

Yes.

1 Cor 3
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward.15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames.

If the people you mentioned are truly saved...they will have their works burned up. They will suffer loss. But they will still be saved....barely.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You may not see someone's works, but you still judge them.

How do you know that?
Aren't you judging me?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

How do you know that?
Aren't you judging me?

Absolutely!
I don't see your responses as being Christian at all.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

How do you know that?
Aren't you judging me?

You see my new signature?
"OSAS is a way of life, not a doctrine."
I really believe that.
I don't think you are attacking that, I think you are solely attacking what is today called OSAS doctrine.

My attacks on you are not on you personally, but on your stance of non_OSAS, which I believe to be false, thus they do not come from God.

I don't think either of us are making personal attacks, but yes, if we don't talk this out and understand each other, then we could believe that.

But nah, you would never attack me, I know that.
I hope you feel the same about me.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

What do you say we enjoy life a little.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes.

1 Cor 3
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward.15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames.

If the people you mentioned are truly saved...they will have their works burned up. They will suffer loss. But they will still be saved....barely.

Listen to what rock throwing Ernest T. Bass tells you.
Read the passage carefully and stay in context.
The 'work' that we do that gets tested to see if it's imperishable and can survive the fires of the coming Judgment is the people you have labored for in the field and building of God. The Corinthians are the result of Paul's labor in the field and building of God. They are the work that will be tested.

"Are you (Corinthians) not the result of my work in the Lord?" - 1 Corinthians 9:1

At the Judgment, his work (the Corinthians in this case) will either pass through the Judgement because they are genuinely saved and imperishable believers, or they will be found to be false and will be burned up in the Judgment. They are his 'work' that will get tested. He only gets a reward for his labor if the people he has labored for make it through the fire. If they don't, he himself will pass through, but those he ministered to will not, and he will have no reward for his labor. They will not be there to be his reward for work done in the field and building of God:

"...what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you?" - 1 Thessalonians 2:19

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The non-OSAS crowd is guilty....they say you can go out and lie, cheat, steal, etc....as long as you still believe in Jesus you're OK.

People who still believe in Jesus don't do that, lol.

1 John 3:9

Purposely living in sin is the sign of the un/ex-believer.
You can struggle with those things, and you surely will, but to believe that "you can go out and lie, cheat, steal, etc." is the sign of an un/ex-believer. For the (ex) believer, willful sin is choosing to show disdain and contempt for the blood of Christ that sanctified them. It's choosing to not care about or believe/trust in the blood of Christ that sanctified them anymore. Hebrews 10 makes it crystal clear that person will go to hell. They need to stop playing games and repent and come back to Christ before God turns them over to their unbelief and they can't come back (Hebrews 6:4-6).

 

[Cygnus]

Listen to what rock throwing Ernest T. Bass tells you.
Read the passage carefully and stay in context.
The 'work' that we do that gets tested to see if it's imperishable and can survive the fires of the coming Judgment is the people you have labored for in the field and building of God. The Corinthians are the result of Paul's labor in the field and building of God. They are the work that will be tested.

"Are you (Corinthians) not the result of my work in the Lord?" - 1 Corinthians 9:1

At the Judgment, his work (the Corinthians in this case) will either pass through the Judgement because they are genuinely saved and imperishable believers, or they will be found to be false and will be burned up in the Judgment. They are his 'work' that will get tested. He only gets a reward for his labor if the people he has labored for make it through the fire. If they don't, he himself will pass through, but those he ministered to will not, and he will have no reward for his labor. They will not be there to be his reward for work done in the field and building of God:

"...what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you?" - 1 Thessalonians 2:19

Not quite....what they have done is virtually nothing. That is all they have done is then burnt up because it was not done for Christ. If you noticed it ends with...he himself will be saved. I would suggest trying again.

 

[Cygnus]

People who still believe in Jesus don't do that, lol.

Strange...you just accused the OSAS believers of doing that....and you seem to be doing it.

1 John 3:9

Purposely living in sin is the sign of the un/ex-believer.
You can struggle with those things, and you surely will, but to believe that "you can go out and lie, cheat, steal, etc." is the sign of an un/ex-believer. For the (ex) believer, willful sin is choosing to show disdain and contempt for the blood of Christ that sanctified them. It's choosing to not care about or believe/trust in the blood of Christ that sanctified them anymore. Hebrews 10 makes it crystal clear that person will go to hell. They need to stop playing games and repent and come back to Christ before God turns them over to their unbelief and they can't come back (Hebrews 6:4-6).

You seem to be speaking of people who never were christians to begin with.

 

[JLB]

Brother if you don't know the answer to my question, then why are you arguing so much?

Was Judas Iscariot, who was in Christ for more then 3 years, ever saved?
Was Judas Iscariot ever saved?
Was Judas Iscariot ever saved?

How many times do I have to ask?

How come none of you non-OSAS'ers never jump in with an answer?

Please quote the scripture that you are referring to.


How many times do I have to ask?


JLB

 

[JLB]

What do you say we enjoy life a little.

More Satanic music.

Doesn’t help your cause.

 

[JLB]

What must one do to be saved?

Believe the Gospel.

Believe the way Jesus means believe.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Do you agree or disagree?


JLB