Blood Bought 1953
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Forever Secure
- Thread starter netchaplain
- Start date
Again, you deny the plain words of truth.
This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.
2 Timothy 11-13
JLB
Please share with us this shocking “Christianity 101”, by answering the question.
How does a person benefit from what Jesus did 2000 years ago on the cross?
JLB
I have taken 30 years looking at it.
No matter how you try, you cant explain away the truth.
The context is about Jews who have returned to Judaism, because they believed the narrative of those unbelieving Jews who we’re persecuting them in which they were trying to turn them back to Judaism, a religion that denies Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah; the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.
Once they renounced Jesus as Messiah, to stop the persecution, and thus saving their life, they no longer had a sacrifice for sin.
They only had a fearful expectation of judgement, because they no longer had a sacrifice for sins, because they no longer believed Jesus was the Lamb of God.
They did not have a “depth of understanding“ of who Jesus Christ is. The believed the lie. They believed he was just a man, and a false teacher. They no longer believed He is the Lord.
They succumbed to the temptation to depart from Christ so they could live a little longer.
They returned to unbelief.
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:26-27
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
Amen! That's why we should be careful to continue to trust in such a great Ministry.
"14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess." - Hebrews 4:14
"23Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. " - Hebrews 10:23
As you can see, 'one time for all time' doesn't mean you can't lose the effect of Christ's ministry. It means it never runs out needing to be renewed over and over again. That's why we should not stop believing in so great a Ministry.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Please allow me to chime in here...
I didn't consult commentaries. I just read the plain words of Hebrews for myself. And without bias. And I saw for myself what 'forever' actually meant. And it didn't mean OSAS.
What happened for me is I realized while reading Hebrews that it didn't match what the church was teaching.
I didn't consult commentaries. I just read the plain words of Hebrews for myself. And without bias. And I saw for myself what 'forever' actually meant. And it didn't mean OSAS.
Jethro Bodine
Member
No, you were taught the works gospel, not what we are telling you here.
I've noticed that biased indoctrinations work both ways. They not only make a person only able to understand the Word one way (the way they were told) but they also cause a person to only be able to hear the opposition to their beliefs one way. In this case, OSASer's always hear opposition to their doctrine as a works gospel. That's how they've been trained to hear, even if the argument against them is not the works gospel. It's a very annoying quality of indoctrinated people. You spend most of your time just getting them to properly understand your argument, let alone getting them to agree with it.
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Jethro Bodine
Member
No, not even remotely true.
The argument is that the promises are only for those who believe and continue to believe.
They are true and steadfast and unmovable for the believer, not the unbeliever or the ex-believer.
The reason OSASer's don't get it is because they are convinced there is no other way to look at the passages they use to defend OSAS. I woke up one day and realized, yes, there are other legitimate understandings to the (supposed) OSAS passages that don't make those passages untrue. You can't see that because you are biased and indoctrinated.
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Jethro Bodine
Member
Yes, people, check it out for yourself.
Start here:
"14 ...since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess." - Hebrews 4:14
See it?
Since our High Priest and his Ministry are so great. HANG ONTO IT!
Christ's greatness has nothing to do with you not being able to lose it no matter what (why is the author telling us to hold onto something we can't lose???).
It means it's more effectual than the old covenant ministry of the Levites, and doesn't need to be renewed over and over again, and for that reason you should hang onto it:
"14 ...by a single offering He has made perfect for all time those who are being sanctified." - Hebrews 10:14
So, without the OSAS bias we can see this is about Christ's Sacrifice being so effectual it makes you perfect, and that it doesn't have to be re-sacrificed over and over again, and so that perfection does not need to be renewed over and over again. This being true, the author tells us to hang on so great a Ministry and Sacrifice.
This has nothing to do with you never being able to lose the perfection you get from so great a ministry no matter what. It has everything to do with how effectual and long lasting the Ministry of Christ is and for that reason you should hang on to it! This is plainly taught right in the Bible for anyone to see for themselves. But OSAS is an indoctrination that keeps people's eyes from seeing it.
In my opinion, I am saved forever.
Call it what you like.
Call it what you like.
Ernest T. Bass
Member
They would be wrong.
Cygnus
Member
Says who? You?
In my opinion, it would be good to use Scripture to back up your statement for clarity purposes.
Otherwise, you should write that what you say is your opinion rather than insinuating that it is absolute truth.
Jethro Bodine
Member
It's interesting how you are either ignoring what the passage actually says, or you just can't see it.
11Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
13if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.
2 Timothy 2:11-13
Why is it that every passage used to debate you is something the debater doesn't understand?
Should we all be bowing down to your great knowledge?
Jethro Bodine
Member
I'm trying to be polite and giving you people the benefit of the doubt that you simply can't understand what the Bible says because OSAS teaching steers you in the wrong direction.
But the truth is I think most of you are purposely ignoring the truth. You are choosing to be deceived and blinded by OSAS doctrine.
I'm of the opinion that, in the end, most people believe OSAS because that's what they want to believe, not because they've checked it out for themselves.
LovethroughDove
Member
I'm pulling this out for you to look at because you stated it and hopefully you can see this is what I was speaking about the entire time with the parable of the sower.
"depth of understanding" Exactly, it was some understanding but not total revelation. - They believed something true about Jesus but not the part that saves someone.
Jethro Bodine
Member
And that's fine.
Just remember Paul's warning:
"19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20That is correct: They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly notg spare you either.
22Take notice, therefore, of the kindness and severity of God: severity to those who fell, but kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off." - Romans 11:19-22
Yes, it's talking to YOU, and me.
Jethro Bodine
Member
And this is the crux of the problem.
To an OSASer, 'forever' means you can never lose it, no matter what.
To a non-OSASer, 'forever' means Christ's ministry can never fail you, like the ministry of the Levites did, and has nothing to do with whether or not you'll continue to believe in it.
As I've shown, the non-OSAS view is what the Bible actually teaches.
But if you just keep listening to the narrow, biased teachings of OSAS teachers week and week, year after year, and don't check this out for yourself you will continue to be deceived by OSAS teachers and their doctrines.
LovethroughDove
Member
I believe revelation leads to salvation.
John 10:27-28 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life and no one can snatch them out of my hand.
The Revelation of Jesus is everything. Most people don't really know who he is and this is the broad road.
Matthew 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
I am confusing slightly because I've never heard a simple childlike message as what had been given to me through the Holy Spirit. Revelation of Jesus is what saves.
If an adult is honest with themselves, they don't believe in resurrection really. If an adult is honest with themselves, they can't picture the blood of a divine/human person. As an adult, I am able to be wholly convinced of both of these things. There is no "not believing" for me anymore.