Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[Mitspa]

To do those things takes study, I am not here to study for you, study yourself, bring the fruit of your understanding. But for you to ask me to do things that require study for your point, I will not do, if you notice, when I bring a point up, I have studied it and bring the fruit of that study, now you do the same !

By the way i may have clicked your post by accident? i am sorry if i did?
But my point to all in this discussion is the same! And these are not "GREAT SECRETS" That require tons of discussion!:eeeekkk These are simple truths found in simple definitions! And your kinda grumpy? Are you ok doing this kind of debate?

 

[Cassian]

savedbygrace57,

Thats false teaching, show one scripture that says that !

starting with Abel, God saw his righteousness. Then Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Zacharias and others.

In the mean time here is God's indictment of men Isa 1:4-6
4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

well actually only those that have forsaken God.

Our heart by nature is desperately wicked Jer 17:9
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

The word desperately means: incurable ! incurably wicked !

this is again about Isreal forsaking God. It is not even addressing the natural state of man. The latter part is about returning, seeking the Lord and He will heal.
You consistantly come up with these isolated texts and pull them out of context to try to shore up your false doctrines.

 

[savedbygrace57]

starting with Abel, God saw his righteousness.

Abel was Righteous because of Christ ! Not his own Righteousness !

 

[savedbygrace57]

this is again about Isreal forsaking God

Doesn't matter, its a description of the human heart, jew or gentile, men are men !

 

[Cassian]

Abel was Righteous because of Christ ! Not his own Righteousness !

All men are righteous because of Christ. That is what the texts of Rom 3:23-24, and II Cor 5:18-19 and Col 1:20 is saying.

But this has nothing to do with what Christ did but what each individual will be held accountable for regarding their personal or individual salvation.

This is the whole of scripture which you are quite confused.

 

[Cassian]

Doesn't matter, its a description of the human heart, jew or gentile, men are men !

there is no context here about all men or even a difference between Jew and Gentile.

You lift verses, part of verses to build a theology that is not premised on scripture, but some man's supposition.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Son of God Issue !

The issue of the Only Begotten Son. In apostate religion there is a very deceptive false teaching in regards to the Person of the Son of God, which is called the Eternal Generation of the Son of God. This apostate teaching states that the Deity of the Son of God, that which constitutes Him Very God of Very God, that it is a derivative Deity, of a secondary constitution, and not Self Existent and Independent as that of the Father and the Spirit. One of the leading components for this false teaching is the Nicene creed, note what it says here:

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of
all things visible and invisible.





And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the
Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God,
begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things
were made;

Notice carefully how it states that the Only Begotten of the Father, begotten of the Father [ Derived] Very God begotten [derived] not made ! Folks thats a contradiction for both begotten and Made denote a dependent existence, which is not fitting for God !

Such a teaching as this is Blasphemous, a subtle attack on the Deity of Jesus Christ, that of the Logos of God, which scripture teaches was God Jn 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

We dare not think that Deity was of any producing higher than itself, or a product of some kind of generation.

The scripture however does inform us of a Sonship of Christ that is Eternally begotten or Generated, but this is related to Him Being the Head and Surety Life of His Body the Church Rev 3:14


14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Col 1:15-18

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

But this being of His is in Addition to and Joined to His Self Existing Deity as the Logos of God ! This must be understood to avoid the present blasphemy of the Nicene Creed teaching !

 

[Mitspa]

The Son of God Issue !

The issue of the Only Begotten Son. In apostate religion there is a very deceptive false teaching in regards to the Person of the Son of God, which is called the Eternal Generation of the Son of God. This apostate teaching states that the Deity of the Son of God, that which constitutes Him Very God of Very God, that it is a derivative Deity, of a secondary constitution, and not Self Existent and Independent as that of the Father and the Spirit. One of the leading components for this false teaching is the Nicene creed, note what it says here:




Notice carefully how it states that the Only Begotten of the Father, begotten of the Father [ Derived] Very God begotten [derived] not made ! Folks thats a contradiction for both begotten and Made denote a dependent existence, which is not fitting for God !

Such a teaching as this is Blasphemous, a subtle attack on the Deity of Jesus Christ, that of the Logos of God, which scripture teaches was God Jn 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

We dare not think that Deity was of any producing higher than itself, or a product of some kind of generation.

The scripture however does inform us of a Sonship of Christ that is Eternally begotten or Generated, but this is related to Him Being the Head and Surety Life of His Body the Church Rev 3:14


14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Col 1:15-18

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

But this being of His is in Addition to and Joined to His Self Existing Deity as the Logos of God ! This must be understood to avoid the present blasphemy of the Nicene Creed teaching !

2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

It looks as if some just search for "words" to dispute and strive with others?

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Gift of God is Eternal Life !

The Gift of God is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ Our Lord. This Gift is not an offer, that is a cheat put on us by the devil and his messengers, but it is the giving of us a brand new life, a making us of an New Creature, a New Man as Per Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Thats the Gift of Eternal Life given, this Man can Never die. This comes through New Birth, by and through The Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, He causes each one to be born again from above, by the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This is Eternal Life, born of Incorruptible Seed 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

This is the Gift of God James 1:17-18

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

This New Life [Eternal Life] is manifested or brought forth by the Word of Truth or the Gospel Eph 1:13; 1 Pet 1:25 ! Notice who is having the Gospel preached to them, those of vs 23, born again of incorruptible seed !

 

[farouk]

The Gift of God is Eternal Life !

The Gift of God is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ Our Lord. This Gift is not an offer, that is a cheat put on us by the devil and his messengers, but it is the giving of us a brand new life, a making us of an New Creature, a New Man as Per Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Thats the Gift of Eternal Life given, this Man can Never die. This comes through New Birth, by and through The Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, He causes each one to be born again from above, by the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This is Eternal Life, born of Incorruptible Seed 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

This is the Gift of God James 1:17-18

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

This New Life [Eternal Life] is manifested or brought forth by the Word of Truth or the Gospel Eph 1:13; 1 Pet 1:25 ! Notice who is having the Gospel preached to them, those of vs 23, born again of incorruptible seed !

Great verses! it's by grace alone, Christ's work is perfect, and all to the glory of God!

 

[Cassian]

The Gift of God is Eternal Life !

The Gift of God is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ Our Lord. This Gift is not an offer, that is a cheat put on us by the devil and his messengers, but it is the giving of us a brand new life, a making us of an New Creature, a New Man as Per Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Thats the Gift of Eternal Life given, this Man can Never die. This comes through New Birth, by and through The Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, He causes each one to be born again from above, by the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This is Eternal Life, born of Incorruptible Seed 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

This is the Gift of God James 1:17-18

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

This New Life [Eternal Life] is manifested or brought forth by the Word of Truth or the Gospel Eph 1:13; 1 Pet 1:25 ! Notice who is having the Gospel preached to them, those of vs 23, born again of incorruptible seed !

two verses in scripture clearly spell out and clarify the huge misunderstanding you have regarding what Christ did and for what reason.

John 6:39 is that Christ will raise every single human being from death. This happens in the last day. All men will have an eternal existance, thus an eternal life. There are no exceptions. Acts 24:15 clearly indicates that all men will be raised, because all men were given life, I Cor 15:22, Rom 5:18.

NOw, then read vs 40, of all men, all those that Christ gave eternal existance to, those that see and believe will have that eternal life with Him. Huge difference. All men will be raised to immortality and incorruptiblity, I Cor 15:53.

If Christ did not save all men from death, did not give life to any man, including the world, then there is no purpose for any man to see and believe. It would be all for naught since all men will still die permanently, Christ failed to overcome death. Paul makes it very clear that even your faith would be in vain, if Christ does not raise the dead. If Christ is risen, then so are all the dead.

YOu are also confusing two references to new man, or rebirth in scripture. Christ gave new birth to all men, gave them life, renewed the Image of God in all men. this is done through His Incarnation and resurrection.

the new birth to which you ONLY refer is the spiritual rebirth that occurs as the result of faith, justification by faith, of repentance, baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit. The "born again" reference of John 3:5. and Rom 6:3-4

 

[savedbygrace57]

Great verses! it's by grace alone, Christ's work is perfect, and all to the glory of God!

Do you believe it was perfect enough to save all whom God desired to be saved ?

 

[Atothetheist]

[video=youtube;N6S9OidmNZM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6S9OidmNZM[/video]

Or the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6S9OidmNZM

 

[BornAgain]

Do you believe it was perfect enough to save all whom God desired to be saved ?

Grace alone does not save anybody....

 

[farouk]

Grace alone does not save anybody....

It's by grace through faith (Ephesians 2.8). This is why traditionally Biblical scholars have spoken of SOLA GRATIA & SOLA FIDE (by grace alone & faith alone).

 

[savedbygrace57]

It's by grace through faith (Ephesians 2.8). This is why traditionally Biblical scholars have spoken of SOLA GRATIA & SOLA FIDE (by grace alone & faith alone).

Do you believe it was perfect enough to save all whom God desired to be saved ?

 

[BornAgain]

It's by grace through faith (Ephesians 2.8). This is why traditionally Biblical scholars have spoken of SOLA GRATIA & SOLA FIDE (by grace alone & faith alone).

What about James 2:18 James 2:10 James 2:26

 

[savedbygrace57]

Does not get what he wants !

Why is it that the edited followers believe in a god who desires something as per 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The word will here is the greek word thelō:


to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

But yet he fails to perform it ! But the God of Scripture and of the Saints, whatever His Soul Desireth, that He doeth Job 23:13

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. or He performs as Isa 9:7

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

And it is also written of this Great Deity Isa 14:24

The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

The edited followers do not realize that God's Desire in 1 Tim 2:4 is also His Purpose ! And the God of scripture says, as I have purposed, so shall it stand , and so shall it stand !

The EDITED followers do say that man can thwart what God has purposed or desired, They say that man can prevent God from carrying out His Saving Purpose unto everyone God so desires to be saved, and to come into a knowledge of the Truth, this is nothing short of Blasphemy and the deification of man, = The man of sin !

 

[reba]

We are brothers and sisters in the Lord. We can have different opinions of how we usderstand His Word. God is capable of growing us in His time frame.reba

 

[Mitspa]

Re: Does not get what he wants !

Why is it that the edited followers believe in a god who desires something as per 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The word will here is the greek word thelō:


to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

But yet he fails to perform it ! But the God of Scripture and of the Saints, whatever His Soul Desireth, that He doeth Job 23:13

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. or He performs as Isa 9:7

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

And it is also written of this Great Deity Isa 14:24

The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

The edited followers do not realize that God's Desire in 1 Tim 2:4 is also His Purpose ! And the God of scripture says, as I have purposed, so shall it stand , and so shall it stand !

The EDITED followers do say that man can thwart what God has purposed or desired, They say that man can prevent God from carrying out His Saving Purpose unto everyone God so desires to be saved, and to come into a knowledge of the Truth, this is nothing short of Blasphemy and the deification of man, = The man of sin !

Heb 4:2

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.


Jud 1:5

I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Jud 1:6

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I am not a fan of the free-will groups. For salvation is by the Will of God, Yet many reject "His Will" and they will perish in their rebellion. You are trying to understand "Eternal things" with your "temporal" human emotions