Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[savedbygrace57]

Re: Does not get what he wants !

Heb 4:2



For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.


Jud 1:5



I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Jud 1:6



And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


Rev 21:8



But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I am not a fan of the free-will groups. For salvation is by the Will of God, Yet many reject "His Will" and they will perish in their rebellion. You are trying to understand "Eternal things" with your "temporal" human emotions

Can you point out anything in post 738 that is wrong and not scriptural ?

 

[Mitspa]

Re: Does not get what he wants !

Can you point out anything in post 738 that is wrong and not scriptural ?

It sounds as if you are saying? that because it is "Gods Will" for all to be saved. That He will save them regardless if they accept "His Salvation" who is Christ Jesus?
Now in order to accept your veiw, one would have to deny many other scriptures! Some of which I posted, but they are many more! If your doctrine cannot reconcile the scriptures and make them ALL TRUE, your doctrine is wrong, not the other scriptures!

 

[savedbygrace57]

Re: Does not get what he wants !

It sounds as if you are saying? that because it is "Gods Will" for all to be saved. That He will save them regardless if they accept "His Salvation" who is Christ Jesus?
Now in order to accept your veiw, one would have to deny many other scriptures! Some of which I posted, but they are many more! If your doctrine cannot reconcile the scriptures and make them ALL TRUE, your doctrine is wrong, not the other scriptures!

I am saying exactly what I said, I did not stutter one bit. Here it is again:



Does not get what he wants !
Why is it that the edited followers believe in a god who desires something as per 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The word will here is the greek word thelō:


to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

But yet he fails to perform it ! But the God of Scripture and of the Saints, whatever His Soul Desireth, that He doeth Job 23:13

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. or He performs as Isa 9:7

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

And it is also written of this Great Deity Isa 14:24

The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

The edited followers do not realize that God's Desire in 1 Tim 2:4 is also His Purpose ! And the God of scripture says, as I have purposed, so shall it stand , and so shall it stand !

The EDITED followers do say that man can thwart what God has purposed or desired, They say that man can prevent God from carrying out His Saving Purpose unto everyone God so desires to be saved, and to come into a knowledge of the Truth, this is nothing short of Blasphemy and the deification of man, = The man of sin !

Now do you believe that God does not get what He wants here 1 Tim 2:4 ? Yes or No..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Law preaching in disguise of Gospel Preaching !

Law preaching in disguise of Gospel Preaching ! Jesus said of the false prophets who come as sheep, but they are rally wolves in disguise Matt 7:15-20

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


Its the fruit of their understanding of the Gospel they preach, it is really law disguised as grace !

One sure way to identify a false prophet or preacher of the Gospel, if they preach a gospel that requires men to do something in the order to get Eternal Life, and also somewhere down the line will set forth that the neglect of that requirement is to your everlasting peril, then they preach salvation by law keeping, by works, because law preaching will always require a doing of something to get saved with the threat of punishment if its not done !

 

[BornAgain]

Law preaching in disguise of Gospel Preaching !

Law preaching in disguise of Gospel Preaching ! Jesus said of the false prophets who come as sheep, but they are rally wolves in disguise Matt 7:15-20

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


Its the fruit of their understanding of the Gospel they preach, it is really law disguised as grace !

One sure way to identify a false prophet or preacher of the Gospel, if they preach a gospel that requires men to do something in the order to get Eternal Life, and also somewhere down the line will set forth that the neglect of that requirement is to your everlasting peril, then they preach salvation by law keeping, by works, because law preaching will always require a doing of something to get saved with the threat of punishment if its not done !

Are you a "sure prophet?" Are you proclaiming the Gift of Jesus Christ? What is the Gift?

 

[BornAgain]

Every post you start is just preaching random scriptures. How are you saving anybody by just talking to yourself....you never answer any questions and are angry at anybody that asks a question.

 

[BornAgain]

I can't ignore your posts. I see the amount of people that are reading them, you have good titles but nothing to back them up with.

Seriously, I read your threads and post everyday. I cannot figure out for the life of me what you are trying to say. I cannot figure out what faith you are, where you are coming from, what your beliefs are? ....edited... Why do you badger others to answer questions (I would have called the CF police on you a long time ago) and you never give a ligetament reason why I or anybody else should listen to you. Come on, SBG. Get out from behind that curtain.

 

[Mitspa]

Law preaching in disguise of Gospel Preaching !

Law preaching in disguise of Gospel Preaching ! Jesus said of the false prophets who come as sheep, but they are rally wolves in disguise Matt 7:15-20

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


Its the fruit of their understanding of the Gospel they preach, it is really law disguised as grace !

One sure way to identify a false prophet or preacher of the Gospel, if they preach a gospel that requires men to do something in the order to get Eternal Life, and also somewhere down the line will set forth that the neglect of that requirement is to your everlasting peril, then they preach salvation by law keeping, by works, because law preaching will always require a doing of something to get saved with the threat of punishment if its not done !

Here is your false teacher:

Jas 2:17



Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18



Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19



Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20



But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21



Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22



Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23



And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24



Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25



Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26



For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I wonder is the Apostle and the Holy Spirit wrong? Or is your doctrines ? let me think.....is God wrong, or you? I think I better go with the Lord:yes

 

[savedbygrace57]

Those who make God imperfect !

By their fruits you shall know them ! Speaking of false prophets, Christ says this Matt 7:15-18

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

What fruit is Jesus speaking of here ? Well its not the fruit of the Spirit that Paul writes on in Gal 5:22 because men by the strength of nature can emulate good moral qualities, in fact, that is what Jesus means by they have on sheep clothing outwardly, that which man takes pride in, like the hypocritical jews here Matt 23:38

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Yes men can emulate being people of faith, joy, peace and patience and etc, in fact, Paul says they appear as ministers of righteousness 2 Cor 11:14-15

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

The word righteousness means:

integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting

This is also morality, which means also:


conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.

moral quality or character.

So Satan's servants or ministers do have a emphasis on morality because they know that is impresses men, with it we appear righteous to men as Jesus said in Matt 23:38

But what the false preachers or servants of Satan cannot emulate, and that is an Spiritual Understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Person of God, the True God, and so their fruit of a lack of understanding the things of God as taught by the Spirit, this exposes them as false prophets to the True People of God, and so by the fruit of their Spiritual Understanding or lack thereof, we shall know them. Yes these false believers will have very commendable morals in their religious ways, and by that, they deceive many !

One of the doctrinal fruits that expose them as false prophets is that which makes God imperfect is this 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

If God so willed something here, He desires it, He purposes it, He determined it, resolved it, but yet the false preachers says He does not perform, contrary to Job 23:13

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

So a non performance of that God wills to occur, denotes an imperfection in God. It as well denotes an imperfection in His Wisdom and the ability of Christ, and Christ's failure to accomplish God's will, in seeking and saving that which was Lost Lk 19:10. Unless we suppose that those in 1 Tim 2:4 be a different bunch altogether than those God sent Christ to seek and to save that were lost here Lk 19:10 !

The false preachers and their followers will confess that God does not perform what He desires in regards to 1 Tim 2:4, this is Blasphemy !

 

[savedbygrace57]

They have a form of godliness but deny the power !


2 Tim 3:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Many today who call themselves Preachers of the Gospel of Christ, and of His saving Cross, yet do they deny the Effectual Saving Operations of His Cross, for this Paul did not do, nor any other truly called preacher of the Cross, for by the Powerful Effects of the Cross Paul said Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Paul in essence was saying that by Christ's Cross, He was delivered from this present evil world by the will of God Gal 1:4

4 Who gave himself for our sins [ The Cross], that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Thats why he was by it [ The Cross] crucified unto the world and it to him.

As a result of the Cross of Christ men and women for whom He died are converted to God. But we have those in false religion who boast on the Cross and claim to preach it to the Glory of God, and yet they deny its saving Efficacy to deliver all for whom Christ died !

 

[Mitspa]

They have a form of godliness but deny the power !


2 Tim 3:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Many today who call themselves Preachers of the Gospel of Christ, and of His saving Cross, yet do they deny the Effectual Saving Operations of His Cross, for this Paul did not do, nor any other truly called preacher of the Cross, for by the Powerful Effects of the Cross Paul said Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Paul in essence was saying that by Christ's Cross, He was delivered from this present evil world by the will of God Gal 1:4

4 Who gave himself for our sins [ The Cross], that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Thats why he was by it [ The Cross] crucified unto the world and it to him.

As a result of the Cross of Christ men and women for whom He died are converted to God. But we have those in false religion who boast on the Cross and claim to preach it to the Glory of God, and yet they deny its saving Efficacy to deliver all for whom Christ died !

1Co 2:2

For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1Co 2:3

And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
1Co 2:4

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co 2:5

That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

"The power of God" is to demonstate the power of the "Spirit" not to twist scripture into some enticing "ungodly doctrine"

 

[savedbygrace57]

No Wrath on the Elect !


How can the wrath of God be abiding upon one for whom Christ died, even as they are unbelievers as indicated for these Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.[/B]

When the fact is, even as unbelievers and or enemies, they have been reconciled to God by the death of Christ, His Son Rom 5:10b

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now it is inconsistent to say that these reconciled enemies, by Christ's death, are as unbelievers abiding under God's wrath, that is impossible, furthermore the unbelievers in Jn 3:36 ,it is stated that they shall not see life, simply meaning they will never be saved, but the enemies and unbelievers in Rom 5:10, who are reconciled by Christ's death, the promise to them is that they Shall BE Saved by His Life !

So again it is impossible for them to be those unbelievers in Jn 3:36 under God's abiding Wrath !

 

[savedbygrace57]

No Wrath on the Elect ! Pt 2


God's Wrath is against sin and transgressions made against His Law make no doubt about it Eph 5:3-6

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Rom 1:18

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

All of which sins for those Christ died for, hath been abolished by His Cross, done away with Col 2:14

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

All the sins that God's Justice had recorded against the Elect, all their Transgressions Isa 53:5 and Trespasses, all were imputed to Christ's Charge, not theirs 2 Cor 5:19, and by His Death took them away or took it [ the record of them for each Elect Person] out of the way !, His Cross Work took them all Away, to never be before His Law and Justice again, and this was accomplished before they believed, before they were born to begin committing them. So how is it that anyone Christ died for, even before they believe, that God's Wrath abideth on them or is revealed from heaven upon them Rom 1:18 ?? How are they yet condemned for any sin they are committing while unbelievers since those sins have been already laid to Christ Charge and He bore the penalty of Death for them already and took them away forever Jer 50:20

In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.

Heb 8:12

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Also Unbelief cannot be why they are condemned and under God's Wrath, because for one it is an iniquity itself that was laid upon Christ, and secondly, those in Jn 3:18 were condemned already before it was manifested they were by their unbelief Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Unbelief is simply a symptom of being in a condemned state, because that one has no Saviour or Mediator and their sins remained unappeased before God's law and Justice !

 

[Mitspa]

Also Unbelief cannot be why they are condemned and under God's Wrath, because for one it is an iniquity itself that was laid upon Christ, and secondly, those in Jn 3:18 were condemned already before it was manifested they were by their unbelief Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Unbelief is simply a symptom of being in a condemned state, because that one has no Saviour or Mediator and their sins remained unappeased before God's law and Justice !

Heb 4:2

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Heb 4:3

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.




Heb 3:11

So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Heb 3:12

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[savedbygrace57]

I have finished the Work thou gavest me to do !

Jn 17:4

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Christ here has stated that He accomplished the undertaking the Father gave Him to do !

Now if the Work, the undertaking, the employment that the Father gave Him to do was saving Work as in Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

The word seek is a verb that means to endeavor, to undertake, to work !

So His Work was to undertake to save that which was Lost. And so if God desires all men to be saved and come to the Knowledge of the Truth, and that was Christ's Work to accomplish for the Father, but yet some of those specific all men 1 Tim 2:4 do not get saved as the Father desired, and it was Christ Work to do so, then how can Christ honestly say, that He finished or accomplished the Work the Father gave Him to do ?

 

[Cassian]

I have finished the Work thou gavest me to do !

Jn 17:4

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Christ here has stated that He accomplished the undertaking the Father gave Him to do !

Now if the Work, the undertaking, the employment that the Father gave Him to do was saving Work as in Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

The word seek is a verb that means to endeavor, to undertake, to work !

So His Work was to undertake to save that which was Lost. And so if God desires all men to be saved and come to the Knowledge of the Truth, and that was Christ's Work to accomplish for the Father, but yet some of those specific all men 1 Tim 2:4 do not get saved as the Father desired, and it was Christ Work to do so, then how can Christ honestly say, that He finished or accomplished the Work the Father gave Him to do ?

quite simple. The two texts are not even addressing the same aspect of our salvation. That is just another contradiction you create with scripture, but then solve it by your false strawman gospel.

Christ had two purposes from God to accomplish. He needed to free mankind from the bondage to death and sin. That was accomplished by His death and resurrection.

What was the purpose of giving the world life and a completed sacrifice. God sent Christ to seek and to save the lost. All men, other than Adam, start from an existance apart from Christ. He seeks to save us relationally, to bring all men to union with Him. But by His own Sovereign will, that choice of whether individual men would be in union with Him would be made by each person. Thus Adam made his choice, just as we will make our choice. That He desires all men to be saved does not mean that He chooses or forces, or compels all men to be in union with Him.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His Hand !

Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

What does this word pleasure mean ? It is the hebrew word chephets and means:


delight, pleasure

a) delight

b) desire, longing

c) the good pleasure

d) that in which one takes delight

It means purpose as Per Ecc 3:1,17

I think this is important because the greek word will in 1 Tim 2:4 is thelo and means:


to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

As you can see I highlighted how both words means the same !

Now of course the Isa 53:10 Passage is speaking of Christ and saving Work effected by His Death.

Now, if the Pleasure of the Lord [ God the Father] prospered in His Hand, that is , it was successful,

And it was the God's pleasure that all men be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth as per 1 Tim 2:4

And it was Christ's Saving obligation to seek and to save that which was Lost Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

And it cometh not to pass that all whom the Lord desired to be saved [and not lost] 1 Tim 2:4, then how say the Prophecy that the Pleasure of the Lord prospered in His Hand ? We must conclude therefore that scripture bears a false testimony as to the success of the Lord Jesus Christ and the pleasure of the Lord prospering in His Hand or we must say that the saving of those in 1 Tim 2:4 was not the pleasure that Christ was to have prosper in His hand, which would leave us confused as to why Jesus would say what He did in Luke 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

I challenge anyone to give me some answers here, especially those that say it is the pleasure of the Lord for all men without exception to be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth as per 1 Tim 2:4 and it does not turn out so ! Care to explain what happened to Christ prospering in this His Father's desire ?

 

[Mitspa]

Re: The Pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His Hand !

Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

What does this word pleasure mean ? It is the hebrew word chephets and means:


delight, pleasure

a) delight

b) desire, longing

c) the good pleasure

d) that in which one takes delight

It means purpose as Per Ecc 3:1,17

I think this is important because the greek word will in 1 Tim 2:4 is thelo and means:


to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

As you can see I highlighted how both words means the same !

Now of course the Isa 53:10 Passage is speaking of Christ and saving Work effected by His Death.

Now, if the Pleasure of the Lord [ God the Father] prospered in His Hand, that is , it was successful,

And it was the God's pleasure that all men be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth as per 1 Tim 2:4

And it was Christ's Saving obligation to seek and to save that which was Lost Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

And it cometh not to pass that all whom the Lord desired to be saved [and not lost] 1 Tim 2:4, then how say the Prophecy that the Pleasure of the Lord prospered in His Hand ? We must conclude therefore that scripture bears a false testimony as to the success of the Lord Jesus Christ and the pleasure of the Lord prospering in His Hand or we must say that the saving of those in 1 Tim 2:4 was not the pleasure that Christ was to have prosper in His hand, which would leave us confused as to why Jesus would say what He did in Luke 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

I challenge anyone to give me some answers here, especially those that say it is the pleasure of the Lord for all men without exception to be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth as per 1 Tim 2:4 and it does not turn out so ! Care to explain what happened to Christ prospering in this His Father's desire ?

Well to give you some answers? you might have to stop talking long enough to listen? can you do that? and also to see the blessings of Christ one must enter into the "spirit" where the blessings are! Are you able? do you have the Spirit that raised Christ from the dead? For He also must be accepted, for The Holy Spirit is the keeper of The work of Christ!

 

[childeye]

Re: The Pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His Hand !

Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

What does this word pleasure mean ? It is the hebrew word chephets and means:


delight, pleasure

a) delight

b) desire, longing

c) the good pleasure

d) that in which one takes delight

It means purpose as Per Ecc 3:1,17

I think this is important because the greek word will in 1 Tim 2:4 is thelo and means:


to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

As you can see I highlighted how both words means the same !

Now of course the Isa 53:10 Passage is speaking of Christ and saving Work effected by His Death.

Now, if the Pleasure of the Lord [ God the Father] prospered in His Hand, that is , it was successful,

And it was the God's pleasure that all men be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth as per 1 Tim 2:4

And it was Christ's Saving obligation to seek and to save that which was Lost Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

And it cometh not to pass that all whom the Lord desired to be saved [and not lost] 1 Tim 2:4, then how say the Prophecy that the Pleasure of the Lord prospered in His Hand ? We must conclude therefore that scripture bears a false testimony as to the success of the Lord Jesus Christ and the pleasure of the Lord prospering in His Hand or we must say that the saving of those in 1 Tim 2:4 was not the pleasure that Christ was to have prosper in His hand, which would leave us confused as to why Jesus would say what He did in Luke 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

I challenge anyone to give me some answers here, especially those that say it is the pleasure of the Lord for all men without exception to be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth as per 1 Tim 2:4 and it does not turn out so ! Care to explain what happened to Christ prospering in this His Father's desire ?

We don't see all things and I do not claim to know all things. But I would like to express my limited view of the matter for what it's worth. Much of scripture is said from two perspectives held together at once, hence there are semantics that occur. Also spiritual things are addressed in carnal terms. For the Gospel of Christ is intended to make the blind seeing and the seeing blind, yet both are the pleasure of the Lord God according to His purpose and carried out in the power of the Christ. These things are ripe for misinterpretation.

God has mercy upon whom He will have mercy and hardens whom He will harden. I believe that is for the purpose of showing that it is only by His grace that any are saved. This does not necessarily mean that those described as perishing are lost forever. For God does not say He will not have mercy upon all eventually. For we know it is good to hope that all men are saved as per 1 timothy 2:1-6. And we know He judges according to our measure of judgment, therefore the merciful shall receive mercy and those forgiven much, Love much.

In my view the evidence of the power of Christ to save all men is seen in that there are none who will not be resurrected. And yet some are resurrected unto eternal glory and some unto eternal damnation. I don't know exactly what that means, since all glory ultimately belongs to God, and I suspect damnation might be the same as being found ashamed. I imagine that in heaven the greatest are made by God to serve the least made by God and there is no place for envy or jealousy. In that respect we are all the same made by God to be what we are.

This then gets into the book of life and those cast into the lake of fire. And this is where it is tricky. For the fire may not be what we think it is. The fire may be a different fire than what we are familiar with. It may be a fire of torment where men who knew only comfort in this world now experience discomfort in it's presence. It may be the fire of Truth. Just like there is a boy who leaps for joy thanking God over finding a piece of bread, and yet there is a man cursing God for finding a scratch on his New Porsche. Perhaps the Truth is torment to those who see it only when it's too late to build upon it. We know God says to the faithful the fire shall not burn you, while we also know our works are tried by fire. Moreover in the book of Revelations Christ is depicted as having a body whose feet are in a great furnace.

Consequently, those who forego riches here in this world find riches in heaven. It may be that this is the smoke of their torment that rises forever since once a man has left the flesh there is no means to advance the tempering of the spirit into a more blessed image. That would explain why God says there are those in outer darkness and that ten will come and take your hand and beg that you take them with you to see the great city. Perhaps they cannot get in without being accompanied by those who have access.

As I said I dont know everything and what I have said are just my thoughts. In the end. what matters is only what we can control to the best of our knowledge as we are given and made able according to His grace. We must seek to walk in humility, honesty; perservering through faith in the power of the Eternal Spirit of Love, as seen in the Christ on the cross. He who was greater than us all became the least so that we might be the righteousness of God.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Rom 10:20


Rom 10:20

20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

This verse of scripture, if properly understood, demolishes all conditional Salvation, whether by Faith, Repentance, or whatever Gospel Obedience, God states His Purpose of Grace, in that He was found of them [Gentiles] that sought Him not, and was made manifest unto them that asked for me not. The word manifest here is the greek word emphanēs and means:


manifest

a) fig. of God giving proofs of his saving grace and thus manifesting himself

This God does by sending them the Gospel of their Salvation, in fact it speaks of their entire conversion by Saving Grace !

For it was always predetermined in the saving Counsels of Israel God's Chosen People that included was also a remnant of the Gentiles, so we read Isa 42:6

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Isa 49:6

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

This all speaks to God's Election of Grace in Salvation !