Giving up

[Solo]

Mark T,

I really appreciate your comments and our conversation. However, I probably will not be able to answer you promptly, as I am going on vacation tommorrow morning first thing. I will try, but I can't guarantee I will be able to answer your comments in the next week.

Please be patient and I will get with you as soon as I can. I should be back by the 6th.

Regards,

Joe

Vacation! Who gets a vacation?!

Actually I have been on vacation for 2 years and 4 months and 16 days and six hours and 35 minutes.

 

[Vic C.]

...but who's counting, heh? :-D

 

[Solo]

...but who's counting, heh? :-D

: : Impressive from one who is brain damaged, huh?! :D

 

[Vic C.]

Amen! God is gooooood. :angel:

 

[unred typo]

Vacation! Who gets a vacation?!
Actually I have been on vacation for 2 years and 4 months and 16 days and six hours and 35 minutes.

Good, so you have no excuses not to answer my posts to you in the following threads:

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... &start=210
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 525#313525
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... &start=210

 

[Solo]

Good, so you have no excuses not to answer my posts to you in the following threads:

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... &start=210
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 525#313525
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... &start=210

Ask me whatever questions you have for me in question format without the excess "wind" and I will answer them for you. Thanks.

 

[unred typo]

Ask me whatever questions you have for me in question format without the excess "wind" and I will answer them for you. Thanks.

Don’t let a little wind stop you. No one can blow your house down if it’s founded on the rock. If it bothered me, I wouldn’t post at all since that is about all I get from some posters on here; nothing of substance, a puff and bluster of platitudes. You can’t let that sort of thing make you afraid to speak your mind. Actually, when all I get is that kind of answer, I know they have come against a truth they can’t deny. It’s a beautiful thing. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

:-D

 

[JM]

Don’t let a little wind stop you. No one can blow your house down if it’s founded on the rock. If it bothered me, I wouldn’t post at all since that is about all I get from some posters on here; nothing of substance, a puff and bluster of platitudes. You can’t let that sort of thing make you afraid to speak your mind. Actually, when all I get is that kind of answer, I know they have come against a truth they can’t deny. It’s a beautiful thing. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

:-D

The statement in bold is completely applicable to salvation. Our salvation is built on the work of Christ; Christ is our rock, not our works.

 

[unred typo]

The statement in bold is completely applicable to salvation. Our salvation is built on the work of Christ; Christ is our rock, not our works.

Not exactly, JM. Only those who depart from iniquity and actually do the sayings of Christ will enter the kingdom of heaven. The rock in this is the sayings of Christ... you remember, "love one another, forgive as you have been forgiven, turn the other cheek, depart from iniquity, repent of your sins, etc." Read Matthew 5-7.
Matthew 7 21Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
24Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[JM]

Not exactly, JM. Only those who depart from iniquity and actually do the sayings of Christ will enter the kingdom of heaven. The rock in this is the sayings of Christ... you remember, "love one another, forgive as you have been forgiven, turn the other cheek, depart from iniquity, repent of your sins, etc." Read Matthew 5-7.
Matthew 7 21Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
24Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:27-28

What you suggest by claiming Christians, born again saved believers, is plain false.

First, it disregards God decree and in fact, allows man to overthrow it.
Second, it disregards the power of the blood shed to keep [John 17] the elect out of hell.
Third, it gives man the power over the Holy Spirit to remove the preserve and power of God from Christians which allows then to fall into apostasy.

~JM~

 

[unred typo]

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:27-28

What you suggest by claiming Christians, born again saved believers, is plain false.

First, it disregards God decree and in fact, allows man to overthrow it.
Second, it disregards the power of the blood shed to keep [John 17] the elect out of hell.
Third, it gives man the power over the Holy Spirit to remove the preserve and power of God from Christians which allows then to fall into apostasy.

~JM~

and they follow me


.

 

[JM]

and they follow me


.

No one wrote anything different. As usual you’ve built a straw man.

While we are saved and kept by Christ alone (1 Peter 1:5) yet part of the evidence that we are indeed saved is by our good works i.e. holy living. We were not saved in our sins or saved for our sins…but saved from our sins (Matthew 1:21) By grace through faith unto good works (Ephesians 2:8-10) is the order of scriptures. Chosen in Christ to be holy (Ephesians 1:4)…conformed unto the image of His Son (Romans 8:29) is how it is stated elsewhere. If there is no holiness, then no matter what we did some years ago or thought we did will get us into Heaven. We are not saved by holiness (legalism)* but salvation is evidenced by it, just as the tree is evidenced by its fruit. A real Christian (Christ-one) is Christ-like.

 

[unred typo]

First, it disregards God decree and in fact, allows man to overthrow it.
Second, it disregards the power of the blood shed to keep [John 17] the elect out of hell.
Third, it gives man the power over the Holy Spirit to remove the preserve and power of God from Christians which allows then to fall into apostasy.

First, what decree are you talking about? What is it and how has it been overthrown?
Second, the blood keeps those who repent and forsake their sins, cleansed from all unrighteousness. It doesn’t work for those who continue in rebellion, does it?
Third, what are you talking about? Is that English? Please say something that makes some sort of grammatical sense.

No one wrote anything different. As usual you’ve built a straw man.

So you agree that the sheep are his sheep because they follow him? If they don’t follow him, they aren’t his sheep? You would say with me then, “if you want to be his sheep, follow him� Glad to see you come around, JM.
:-D

 

[JM]

So you agree that the sheep are his sheep because they follow him? If they don’t follow him, they aren’t his sheep? You would say with me then, “if you want to be his sheep, follow him� Glad to see you come around, JM.
:-D

Nope, you're twisting once again.

 

[unred typo]

No one wrote anything different. As usual you’ve built a straw man.

Nope, you're twisting once again.

You see there is a difference in what I mean when I quote, “and they follow me†and what you mean by the same verse. I’m happy with that. Mission accomplished. :-D

 

[cyberjosh]

To Francis (when he returns),

When I was looking into what we were discussing earlier I tried to apply what you were saying to see what basis we have for hope if we are not guranteed salvation. I have now discovered that I was on the right track with my extrapolation. I consulted my Dad on this issue and he confirmed many of my sneaking suspicions in a nut shell. First off, both he and I acknowledged that the Bible says that someone can fall away once a believer (remember I said from the very first page that I wasn't dead set 100% on the arguement I was presenting), and that those who persevere to the end will be saved, however, as any good theologian would notice God can keep those who walk by faith, and it is difficult to run away from God, though admittedly possible. Now when I asked my Dad then about our basis for hope and joy and rejoicing if we are not guranteed our salvation he said that there was a basis for hope (which makes sense - there has to be) and he said that we can make our mind up ahead of time that we aren't going to give into trials. My Dad asked me, "If someone bust in the door right now and put a gun to your head and said 'Deny Jesus or die' would you do it?" and I said "No." He said that was because I've already made up my mind to persevere through trials. He quoted the exchange between Jesus and Peter in John 6:67-69 which says, "Then said Jesus unto the twelve, 'Will ye also go away'? Then Simon Peter answered him, 'Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God'." Peter determined not to go away. And the basis of our hope is that, in determining that we will persevere and knowing that God is gracious to empower us to do it with the Holy Spirit which he has places in us, we rejoice because God is righteous to keep his word and promise of salvation. That is our basis for present hope and rejoicing, as Peter later said, "Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:8-9). This is also why Paul is so confident about him going to see Jesus, and also why he says, "And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!" (2 Timothy 4:18). He was able to say that for himself personally, as we should once we examine ourselves.

But my Dad did acknowledge that those who heard the word (as on stony ground) really recieved the word with joy but when persecutions arise they fall away. He said that tragically he has seen one of his friends do this, but that he prays that he will come back to the Lord. But my question was largely answered that night, we do have a basis for joy and hope and rejoicing because we can be sure that we will recieve our future salvation if we resolve ahead of time to persevere, which I most certainly have.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[JM]

After reading this thread, see also:

 

[unred typo]

After reading this thread, see also:
(Book Plug)

Better yet, go to God himself, and ask him to reveal the truth to you. There is no reason to buy a book or to borrow someone else’s brain to think with. God says he will not give his children a serpent instead of a fish. You have just as much as any other believer to reason with and understand what God has to tell you. Go directly to him as a child would to his father and ask for wisdom to understand and courage to put aside all the errors and false doctrines that hold you back from knowing what your salvation entails.

 

[Solo]

Better yet, go to God himself, and ask him to reveal the truth to you. There is no reason to buy a book or to borrow someone else’s brain to think with. God says he will not give his children a serpent instead of a fish. You have just as much as any other believer to reason with and understand what God has to tell you. Go directly to him as a child would to his father and ask for wisdom to understand and courage to put aside all the errors and false doctrines that hold you back from knowing what your salvation entails.

It has not helped your understanding any. Perhaps you talking to the wrong spirit.

 

[mutzrein]

Better yet, go to God himself, and ask him to reveal the truth to you. There is no reason to buy a book or to borrow someone else’s brain to think with. God says he will not give his children a serpent instead of a fish. You have just as much as any other believer to reason with and understand what God has to tell you. Go directly to him as a child would to his father and ask for wisdom to understand and courage to put aside all the errors and false doctrines that hold you back from knowing what your salvation entails.

And to that I say . . . 'AMEN!'