"Go and sin no more"

[Potluck]

I think too much is being read into "go and sin no more."
What was her sin?
Adultery.
Don't be an adulteress anymore.
She wasn't stealing and she didn't murder anybody.

The people were still under the law. If she had been commanded to commit no sin what-so-ever then sin would be something she could not do.
When Jesus said, "Take up your mat" that's what the man did.
When Jesus told the fig tree to bear fruit that's what happened.
When Jesus called Lazarus from the grave he came.

So if Jesus meant for her not to commit any sin what-so-ever then that's what would have been done. She would no longer be under the law since the law would have no hold on her. In short, she would have been pretty close to divinity if not absolutely divine.

Don't read so much into this.

I have absolute faith the woman never committed adultery again. But I don't believe she became divine.





Gee, I've been blessed with another ad.

 

[jasoncran]

I think too much is being read into "go and sin no more."
What was her sin?
Adultery.
Don't be an adulteress anymore.
She wasn't stealing and she didn't murder anybody.

The people were still under the law. If she had been commanded to commit no sin what-so-ever then sin would be something she could not do.
When Jesus said, "Take up your mat" that's what the man did.
When Jesus told the fig tree to bear fruit that's what happened.
When Jesus called Lazarus from the grave he came.

So if Jesus meant for her not to commit any sin what-so-ever then that's what would have been done. She would no longer be under the law since the law would have no hold on her. In short, she would have been pretty close to divinity if not absolutely divine.

Don't read so much into this.

I have absolute faith the woman never committed adultery again. But I don't believe she became divine.





Gee, I've been blessed with another ad.

:toofunny welcome to captalism.

 

[Potluck]

I'm thinking about putting a trash can near my mailbox, paint it real nice to match the box and put big letters on it saying, "Deleted Mail".

:D

 

[WIP]

I think too much is being read into "go and sin no more."
What was her sin?
Adultery.
Don't be an adulteress anymore.
She wasn't stealing and she didn't murder anybody.

The people were still under the law. If she had been commanded to commit no sin what-so-ever then sin would be something she could not do.
When Jesus said, "Take up your mat" that's what the man did.
When Jesus told the fig tree to bear fruit that's what happened.
When Jesus called Lazarus from the grave he came.

So if Jesus meant for her not to commit any sin what-so-ever then that's what would have been done. She would no longer be under the law since the law would have no hold on her. In short, she would have been pretty close to divinity if not absolutely divine.

Don't read so much into this.

I have absolute faith the woman never committed adultery again. But I don't believe she became divine.





Gee, I've been blessed with another ad.

I figure he was telling her what he told all of us. "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." Matt. 5:48 NKJV
It's our goal. Not because of what we will attain but because of what has already been attained.

 

[Potluck]

Some would take that to support a works-centered belief and I have yet to meet a perfect Christian.
I've met a few professing Christians though who believe they have worked very hard to gain a closer position to perfection therefore they deserve the credit, the honor and the recognition of those efforts.
For some reason I'm not really inspired by their testimonies of struggle and achievement.

 

[Adullam]

I have yet to meet a perfect Christian.
I've met a few professing Christians though who believe they have worked very hard to gain a closer position to perfection therefore they deserve the credit, the honor and the recognition of those efforts.
For some reason I'm not really inspired by their testimonies of struggle and achievement.

Have you ever met a Christian who abides in Christ. If so then you HAVE met a perfect Christian.

A Christian is not seeking perfection...but Christ....and HE is already perfect. What sins does Christ do? Does He go sinning with people because they claim to be believers? Of course not...one cannot abide in sin and Christ simultaneously.

Very few who call themselves Christians are actually believers. Just like very few of those who left Egypt actually had faith in God. It is the SAME situation we face today. Can the power of God stop us from sinning? Most think the flesh nature is too strong for God. They will never say it but instead hide the fact that they believe Adam has triumphed over Christ.

Those who have died with Christ now live with Him...and God is their Father. If one still sins then that one is not yet under grace. Repenting from individual sins is superficial. Repent from your old life and turn to Christ to be born from heaven.


2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

2Co 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

The life of Christ in our body? This is the essence of the Way. We are being assailed by those who claim to know Jesus but judge the world from their own sinfulness. Instead..repent and live!!

 

[smaller]

There is the most obvious way that man can be accounted NO SIN:

2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Not much different than how God Sees here:

Numbers 23:21
He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.

or here:

Isaiah 27:
1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
2 In that day sing ye unto her, A vineyard of red wine.
3 I the LORD do keep it; I will water it every moment: lest any hurt it, I will keep it night and day.
4 Fury is not in me: who would set the briers and thorns against me in battle? I would go through them, I would burn them together.
5 Or let him take hold of my strength, that he may make peace with me; and he shall make peace with me.
6 He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root: Israel shall blossom and bud, and fill the face of the world with fruit.
7 Hath he smitten him, as he smote those that smote him? or is he slain according to the slaughter of them that are slain by him?
8 In measure, when it shooteth forth, thou wilt debate with it: he stayeth his rough wind in the day of the east wind.
9 By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged;

The debate part is a very accurate statement as well.

s

 

[Fedusenko]

I can't write it any clearer. No person can stop that intrusion. It's not possible. We sin because of the tempters insertion of SIN THOUGHTS which are factually INTERNAL SINS in the form of THOUGHT by that entity that is not us. A believer who overlooks this fact does so by the blinding of that entity and they can NOT see it because it is 'inside' their hearts and they 'discount' the matter as trivial.

That implies that the Messiah sinned while being tempted in the wilderness. Satan tempted Him in every which way or am I misunderstanding you?

 

[WIP]

Some would take that to support a works-centered belief and I have yet to meet a perfect Christian.

Maybe so if some want to twist what I said out of context however, that is not what I said.

 

[smaller]

That implies that the Messiah sinned while being tempted in the wilderness. Satan tempted Him in every which way or am I misunderstanding you?

Jesus had no sin nor the tempter in His Mind. The temptation of Jesus was not internal i.e. within His Heart, but external.

His Own Words say we do not have that same measure.

 

[Potluck]

It's our goal.

A Christian is not seeking perfection

Perfection is our hope, our faith for He is that perfection. Without Christ the spirit seeks to please the world, embraces it and sin is by individual definition forged by what the world pursues, accepts. The flesh is served.
With Christ the spirit is changed becoming an enemy to the world. Our spirit acknowledges Christ is right and the world is wrong. The flesh remains but is condemned. The spirit is reconciled with Christ unto eternal life. And this by what He did on the cross, not by anything we do.
We cannot be perfect while still in the flesh.

and HE is already perfect

 

[smaller]

Perfection is our hope, our faith for He is that perfection. Without Christ the spirit seeks to please the world, embraces it and sin is by individual definition forged by what the world pursues, accepts. The flesh is served.
With Christ the spirit is changed becoming an enemy to the world. Our spirit acknowledges Christ is right and the world is wrong. The flesh remains but is condemned. The spirit is reconciled with Christ unto eternal life. And this by what He did on the cross, not by anything we do.

That tickles the feet of Gnosticism which same believed that the flesh is evil. That is not the case. The flesh is condemned because of the presence of sin.

We won't be cutting flesh and finding sin. It's a force, a slaving force. A power. It starts in mind from temptation, pokes it's weed head up through the ground of the flesh so to speak in word sin, and grows to SIN action, thereby making a slave. Any one of the workings from mind through action remains a sin of force or power.

We do not however war or wrestle with flesh, but the power of darkness that is in it. The seed of darkness is planted in the ground, that is, our flesh. And it is sown by our enemy.

s

 

[Potluck]

I just don't believe one can be perfect while in the flesh.
And yes, I know scripture can be shown to both support and refute the belief. Depends how one cares to interpret it I suppose.
I believe man has an inherent sinful nature against God while we are in the flesh. Therefore the need for faith and hope in Christ. We aren't made perfect right now. The flesh must die for it is indeed condemned even as we are presently believers looking toward the Cross for our salvation rather than ourselves.

 

[smaller]

I just don't believe one can be perfect while in the flesh.
And yes, I know scripture can be shown to both support and refute the belief. Depends how one cares to interpret it I suppose.

Indeed it does. Ultimately a believer has to observe the 'causes' of our imperfections and find our division from that 'cause.'

I believe man has an inherent sinful nature against God while we are in the flesh.

Were we not 'all' factually subjected to the workings of the tempter it would not be so. Many believers do not, oftentimes can not separate that what comes into our mind in the form of sin thought is both sin AND of the tempter.

I believe scriptures, The Word of God, has placed a very logical description of how and why sin works the way it does, and also how to defeat that working.

Therefore the need for faith and hope in Christ.

Again true. Very much so. It's a difficult matter to come to grips with, but our perfection as believers was is always from Him and in Him. It can not be of ourselves and on our own.

We aren't made perfect right now. The flesh must die for it is indeed condemned even as we are presently believers looking toward the Cross for our salvation rather than ourselves.

Were these matters on the imperfection side of the ledgers 'just us' as believers it would be easy to just lay the blame on ourselves and live in perpetual condemnation in our own minds. But obviously we do have the tempter involved in these matters. Those who do not see this fact will remain confused 'in mind' on many subjects and actions.

s

 

[WIP]

Potluck,
It appears that you are desperately trying to entice me into a works argument even though that is not my implication. Love of Christ = desire to please Him = goal to be like Christ (i.e. perfect). Realizing that I can't succeed does not mean I will give up trying for I try in response to Christ, not to gain Christ. I will not respond further.

 

[Potluck]

Potluck,
It appears that you are desperately trying to entice me into a works argument even though that is not my implication. Love of Christ = desire to please Him = goal to be like Christ (i.e. perfect). Realizing that I can't succeed does not mean I will give up trying for I try in response to Christ, not to gain Christ. I will not respond further.

I am desperate for nothing. Desperation is from pride wrought by the desire to "win" a debate. Nor am I enticing anyone into a works discussion. I don't seek to win. I really don't have to.

To tell the truth I think we're saying the same thing but in a different manner. I don't see you claiming you are perfect.
I think the word "goal" may have given me the wrong impression. Too many believe their efforts give rise to a reward of salvation rather than salvation through His forgiveness, His mercy and His love for us... grace, unmerited favor.

As far as me personally well, His goal was attained when He laid claim to my spirit and will come again to me to collect. Whether I'm perfect or not I'm still His. He promised me that and I believe Him.

 

[Fedusenko]

I have enjoyed this topic. I brought it up to spark conversation and thought on the matter. I think that Potluck is right in suggesting semantics to be a barrier. The conclusion I have come to is as follows...

The Messiah sacrificed himself for my sins. He asked me to kill my old man and be reborn in Christ. Being vouched for by Him is the only way to be saved and that can only happen by loving him. Christ's sacrifice did not pave the way to hide my sinful heart, but by discarding my sinful heart I can know him. Stopping my sins does not make me perfect and my own means do not save me. Only Christ can save me, but he does not want to dwell with sin so I must kill the sinning man in me.

...there you go. Thanks for your comments and don't think I didn't listen to you if I did not mention your stance on the matter, I am not pulled in that direction.

 

[Danus]

I just don't believe one can be perfect while in the flesh.
And yes, I know scripture can be shown to both support and refute the belief. Depends how one cares to interpret it I suppose.
I believe man has an inherent sinful nature against God while we are in the flesh. Therefore the need for faith and hope in Christ. We aren't made perfect right now. The flesh must die for it is indeed condemned even as we are presently believers looking toward the Cross for our salvation rather than ourselves.

You have a healthy grip on the truth brother. I'm starting to think the only way some think to stay perfect is by spending most of their time on Christian forums, so they don't have to walk out into the real world.

Anyway.

 

[jasoncran]

wip. potluck isnt a works salvation type.

i have known him for sometime he was here under another name a few years ago.

 

[Potluck]

I'll just say certain things occurred that weren't of my design and let it go at that.
;)