God Created Man/Adam Sin-ful

[stovebolts]

hmmmm...we'll have to just let that go by
He stated that God created Adam as a sinner and that Adam was not made in the image and likeness of God. That is about as contrary to scripture as you can get.
And then he posted a bunch of scripture that he imagined supported that nonsense.
"If it walks like a whackadoodle....."

yeah. That's why I put him with my "ignored" folk after he said "I don't know why post the Scripture, it means nothing to you." (Which I reported, by the way.)

I like telling stories, it helps me remember the work God has done in my life.

I accepted Jesus and was baptized when I was incarcerated at age 13. While incarcerated, I read the entire Bible, but the four gospels had me captivated and I read them numerous times.

When I was in my 20's and in college, one of my teachers was an ex-nun, but very connected with the Catholic church. One day she asked what we thought the church taught about sex before marriage. Nobody spoke up, so I gave it a stab. Heck, I had a lot of people agree with what I said, but I was dead wrong. I didnt think God would mind as long as the two were committed and loved each other.

Talk about being a heritic.... the teacher was very gentle with me and through her gentleness, she brought me to the truth.

The key here is gentleness and the opposite of that I would call being a big.... jerk. Nobody likes a jerk but too many people think being a jerk is the only way to get their way and prove they are right. Get two or more jerks in a room and its chaos.

It's at this point that I dont care who is right, or who has the best argument because at this point, the only one listening is the one listening to himself and taking pride in his fine argument.

What I care about is getting along and showing the world that true Christian's can discuss Hot issues without being.... jerks.

I dont know how much plainer I can say this. But I'll continue to repeat it.

While I'm at it, when I took over, Greg, the owner wanted me to ban every member and shut the board down and start over.

Jesus tells a story about a tree that bore no fruit and the owner of the orchard wanted it cut down. However. The caretaker asked for another year so he could fertilize it, and care for it.

The year is fast approaching...and this site costs the owner money. He isnt making a dime on it... your smart enough to figure out where this is going. I need everyone's help here.

 

[OzSpen]

Hi Oz, I'll be glad to answer that.
First, take a second look at our Community Message and read it with a fresh set of eyes.

For too long this forum has bred the stench of division. Brother tearing down brother and going for the jugular. Pride will do that every time, and what's worse is when the offenders justify it.

It's pretty simple. Discuss anything you want, but leave room for the others view and extend grace. When heels get dug in, nobody wins. If folks want to argue for the sake of being right, they can leave before we ban them. Those days are over.

Learn to be United in our differences. If a wacko comes on, report them and let the Admins take care of it.

WIP,

That doesnt answer the questions I posed.

But i understand the direction CFnet wants to go, without my endorsing it.

Oz

 

[Jim Parker]

What I care about is getting along and showing the world that true Christian's can discuss Hot issues without being.... jerks.

Great.
What I would love to be able to do is to speak frankly without being labeled a jerk.

 

[stovebolts]

Great.
What I would love to be able to do is to speak frankly without being labeled a jerk.

We are all here to grow each other in Christ and we are commanded to love our neighbor as ourselves.
This does not mean we treat our neighbor how we allow ourselves to be treated. An example might be a woman in an abusive marriage that thinks so poorly of herself she allows the abuse. Another example might be a person hardened through years of debate that has acquired such a thick skin, they are like tephlon man. They believe since they can take it, so can everyone else.

To treat your neighbor as yourself first requires that one learns how God would have them treated, and then treating others the same way.

This is why I posted an example of Priscilla and Aqualla with Apollos. They didnt confront him in public put him on the spot in public. Think of it like this. If you know your kid did not do his homework, why would you create an opportunity for him to lie and ask him if he finished?

It's about creating opportunities where the other is open to receive the tuth.

Our site theme in our community message says the world will know us by the live we have for each other. Look at 1 cor 13, and live that out the best you can.

 

[jeremiah1five]

We are all here to grow each other in Christ and we are commanded to love our neighbor as ourselves.
This does not mean we treat our neighbor how we allow ourselves to be treated. An example might be a woman in an abusive marriage that thinks so poorly of herself she allows the abuse. Another example might be a person hardened through years of debate that has acquired such a thick skin, they are like tephlon man. They believe since they can take it, so can everyone else.

To treat your neighbor as yourself first requires that one learns how God would have them treated, and then treating others the same way.

This is why I posted an example of Priscilla and Aqualla with Apollos. They didnt confront him in public put him on the spot in public. Think of it like this. If you know your kid did not do his homework, why would you create an opportunity for him to lie and ask him if he finished?

It's about creating opportunities where the other is open to receive the tuth.

Our site theme in our community message says the world will know us by the live we have for each other. Look at 1 cor 13, and live that out the best you can.

Stove, if I may...
Paul dispensed with the instruction and command in Matthew 18:15 and went straight to the church fellowship... (whether he was aware of Matthew 18:15 or not, the priest in him may have come out for this is the way of corporate discussion.)

Galatians 2:14 (KJV)
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

We expose darkness by shining a light (figuratively), but there are times that pulling covers or identifying error, sin, and other unbiblical situations, circumstances, and issues require public confrontation.

 

[stovebolts]

WIP,

That doesnt answer the questions I posed.

But i understand the direction CFnet wants to go, without my endorsing it.

Oz

Let me try again.
The scriptures you posted are valid, and we will correct those in doctirnal error. We will not allow sin to be propogated.

But we will do it speaking truth in love. James says you go ahead and talk about your faith, and many here do just that. But I will show you my faith by what I do. And that starts with how we address each other.

 

[chessman]

Matthew 18:15

The command in Matt 18:15 deals with “sins against you”.

“But if your brother sins against you, go, expose him between you and him alone. If he listens-to you, you gained your brother.​

Matthew 18:15 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 18:15&version=DLNT

Galatians 2:14 (KJV)
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel ...

Gal 2:14 deals with sins against “the truth of the Gospel”. Different subjects!

Paul dispensed with the instruction and command in Matthew 18:15

Did the Holy Spirit lead you to this conclusion?

 

[WIP]

I keep it real. Leadership needs to listen to those they "serve?" or lord it over.
They need to listen.
EDIT: I don't say this to embarrass leadership. I say it because I'd like to see this fellowship grow to its highest potential possible being on the Internet and online. I must also say that these Terms of Service is not service to the brethren, if brethren are "free, free indeed," these Terms of Service puts the people of God back under bondage and under the law.
Please, Jim, no comments like that. Leadership is not the enemy. Good shepherds lead God's people to green pastures and beside still waters. As pointing finger in the hand of God, all I do is point the way. It is up to leadership to decide if they want to go in that direction.

You were asked to read and agree to the ToS when you joined CFnet. If you can't do that, then why participate?

 

[WIP]

So if someone posts that Jesus is really the Archangel Michael I shouldn't point out that that idea is false?
If someone denies the Trinity, I shouldn't tell them they have a problem?

Where do you draw the line?

You mean it is impossible to point out what you see as error without getting snippy? C'mon, you know what we're after.

 

[stovebolts]

Stove, if I may...
Paul dispensed with the instruction and command in Matthew 18:15 and went straight to the church fellowship... (whether he was aware of Matthew 18:15 or not, the priest in him may have come out for this is the way of corporate discussion.)

Galatians 2:14 (KJV)
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

We expose darkness by shining a light (figuratively), but there are times that pulling covers or identifying error, sin, and other unbiblical situations, circumstances, and issues require public confrontation.

Very good points, and per Mt 18, that was in my mind when I took this public.

Here is what you need to know. I know each and every active member here. I read way more than I write. I dont catch every thread and every post, but I get around well enough to understand the personalities and content.

I have tremendous respect for Jim Parker. So much that I asked him to be a teacher on this site and I created a seperate forum where he can teach. His knowledge and understanding of scripture is excellent and rarely will you see me disagree with his understanding of scripture. Same goes for many other members that have participated in this thread and others who have not.

You dont know the history of this site. Where we've been and what this site has gone through. We are both growing and healing. Make no mistake though, we are a community, and for the most part we are a good community with good Fellowship.

We believe your assertion that humanity was created sinful is in error. In short, when God had finished creating humanity, he said it was good. When God had finished with creation, He said it was very good. We know that God does not call sin good, let alone very good. So, when you assert that man was created sinful, you know that our community will push back as you have both seen and experienced. This will not change, nor should it. My charge is that we do it in truth and love.

There is history with many of our members, and our ears perk up when our spidey senses kick on. It is because of our history as a community that you were categorized as a calvinist. Wounds run deep, and history will not repeat itself.

I am a member of the church of Christ, and we put great emphasis on baptism. I personally have been accused of works based salvation even when I've stated that we are saved by grace. I say this to say I understand what it's like to be falsely accused. The advice I can give you is this. Less is better and be secure enough in your belief that you dont have to defend it to anyone. I'm sorry you misunderstand me that way. It's not what I was saying, but i think i understand why you feel that way about what I've written. This approach acknowledges their concern and you can validate their concern, and then explain your difference. But you wont get far defending your view if you dont validate theirs.

Hope this helps.

 

[jeremiah1five]

QUOTE: The command in Matt 18:15 deals with “sins against you”.

“But if your brother sins against you, go, expose him between you and him alone. If he listens-to you, you gained your brother.​

Matthew 18:15 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 18:15&version=DLNT
RESPONSE: Hello chessman. This was an instruction and command given to those in Covenant with God, meaning Israel, and now spiritual Israel: Believers in the Church Age.
If you are a born of God believer (spiritual Israel - you do belong now to a tribe, a spiritual tribe of the children of Israel: 12 tribes, Simeon, Gad, Judah, etc. - type and shadow), then this command is also for you. If someone sins against you, chessman, you are commanded to go to them in private, or in this case, through a message, and explain them your issue or what they did that offended you. Keep in mind that the sin or issue MUST be found in the Law. Thus, you MUST know the Law for we are under, or should I say, the Law (Holy Spirit - the "He" that God was to put in our inward parts [Jer. 31:33] - that the Holy Spirit convicts us now from within and not from without which was the Law in stone tablets.), is dwelling within us, and this MUST KNOW the Law is a command found in Deut. 6:6-9, and we are doing just that now by discussing the Word and this "so-great salvation." But there comes a time when discussion halts and obedience "kicks in."

QUOTE: Gal 2:14 deals with sins against “the truth of the Gospel”. Different subjects!
RESPONSE:
Galatians 2:14 (KJV)
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

OK. Which gospel? There are many, many gospels in the Word. Gospel means "good news," right? There was a good news to Mary about a child to born to her, there was good news to Hannah about her child to be born to her, there was good news to Paul that God had 7000 who had not bowed their knee to Baal, there was good news to the children of Israel that God would send a Deliver to deliver them from the bondage of Egypt, Paul had a good news about the death, and resurrection of the Lord, the apostles had a good news to the children of Israel scattered throughout the then known world that their Messiah had come and that God (here's the good news) HAD KEPT HIS PROMISE. A three-word gospel. Now, which gospel?

QUOTE: Did the Holy Spirit lead you to this conclusion?
RESPONSE: Yes.

 

[jeremiah1five]

QUOTE: You were asked to read and agree to the ToS when you joined CFnet. If you can't do that, then why participate?
RESPONSE: You are commanded to be obedient to the Word. If you can't do that why be a Christian. Have you seen the ToS? All those laws/rules are a bondage to the children of God here at CF, or can't you see. When we are out alone or in the congregation we are commanded to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God and that means the Scripture.
Or do we not here at CF obey that Word and command?
Those rules are a bondage and I am pointing this out to you. Why haven't YOU seen this I am saying? You should all in leadership take this to the boss and discuss it and the believers here should be allowed to participate else you are lording it over them and they will leave and YOU will be at fault. Truth has been revealed to you and NOW, as Christian, you must do something about the truth you receive.
Since the Garden it has always been and it is true today:
Receive or reject. There is no medium.
You need to get with your boss.
I am a Christian. Born again 42 years. Christ is IN ME. You excommunicate me you excommunicate HIM.
And THAT makes you antichrist to deny Christ in me.
I'm a member of the Body of Christ.
What God's people did to all the prophets He sent to serve His people you are contemplating to do to me.
Murder.
Or there is grace in you, because a man can give me NOTHING unless he is first in possession of "it."
Are you with Christ or against Him?
EDIT: Take it to your boss and discuss it. Bring it up on post for the Church here can participate and discuss, and if the word is NO, then I will leave and THEN you can delete my profile.
Because I WILL NOT be placed under bondage. No, sir.

 

[stovebolts]

As an FYI,
Our current TOS is in desperate need of trimming and rework...

It's on my list... any volunteers want to help?

 

[GodsGrace]

As an FYI,
Our current TOS is in desperate need of trimming and rework...

It's on my list... any volunteers want to help?

I'd be willing to help, but I don't understand HOW across the internet...
I just took a look at the TOS and I see some grammatical errors..is this what you're referring to?

And if I fixed them (very good at English), how do you get the corrected copy??

P.S. I know a sentence cannot start with the word AND...
It's called Artistic Freedom!!

 

[stovebolts]

I'd be willing to help, but I don't understand HOW across the internet...
I just took a look at the TOS and I see some grammatical errors..is this what you're referring to?

And if I fixed them (very good at English), how do you get the corrected copy??

P.S. I know a sentence cannot start with the word AND...
It's called Artistic Freedom!!

Ha!
I just posted a new thread in the Lounge where we can put this together. The second post will be used for staff to take ideas and build a draft for the new TOS. Later, those discussions can be referenced for future members so the spirit of the TOS isnt lost.

When I say a new TOS, I mean let's gut everything we have and start over.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ha!
I just posted a new thread in the Lounge where we can put this together. The second post will be used for staff to take ideas and build a draft for the new TOS. Later, those discussions can be referenced for future members so the spirit of the TOS isnt lost.

When I say a new TOS, I mean let's gut everything we have and start over.

Just saw it.
Good idea.
I replied to the other thread already....

 

[chessman]

If someone sins against you, chessman, you are commanded to go to them in private, or in this case, through a message, and explain them your issue or what they did that offended you.

If it’s a sin against you, that’s my point. Peter had not offended Paul personally by not eating with Gentiles hypocritically. That wasn’t a sin against Paul personally.

OK. Which gospel?

The one to the Gentiles.

 

[Jim Parker]

It's about creating opportunities where the other is open to receive the tuth.

That would be nice.
It requires that one be allowed to speak the truth as clearly and concisely as he is able.
BUt that seems to be a problem here.

 

[Jim Parker]

You mean it is impossible to point out what you see as error without getting snippy?

I said nothing of the sort.
Why did you even suggest such a thing?
Why are you doing exactly what you say you want to curtail?

 

[jeremiah1five]

You were asked to read and agree to the ToS when you joined CFnet. If you can't do that, then why participate?

WIP I will abide by the ToS as written. Can I count on you to let me know when I am lacking in that dept?