GOD CREATED MAN (ADAM) SINFUL

[Hopeful]

The Old Testament: The Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets.

The Law was written by a believer in Covenant with God and addressed to other believers in Covenant with God.

The Psalms was written by believers in Covenant with God and addressed to other believers in Covenant with God.

The prophets were written by believers in Covenant with God and addressed to other believers in Covenant with God.

The New Testament:

The Gospels were written by believers in Covenant with God to other believers in Covenant with God.

The Epistles were written by believers in Covenant with God to other believers in Covenant with God. This is proved by the writer addressing the epistle to the CHURCH in Rome, the CHURCH at Philippi, the CHURCH in Corinth, etc. And the Church is comprised of believers in Covenant with God.

Thus, the Scripture of both Old and New Testaments were written by believers in Covenant with God to believers in Covenant with God.

God is so merciful that some of what He had written by and to others in fellowship with Him could be understood by me, out side of fellowship with Him.
What a merciful God !

 

[Hopeful]

That's the human nature of the creature.

David declared as much:

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity;
And in sin did my mother conceive me
Ps 51:5.

That is the old creature.
I am a new creature now.
Thanks be to God.

BTW, what sin was David's mother charged with?
Surely it must be written of somewhere.

 

[jeremiah1five]

He is indeed, but he is juxtaposing those who walk in darkness against those who walk in the light.
Only some of the verses apply to each set.

You do know, I hope, that the gift of repentance from sin has been given to the Gentiles too?
Men don't sin. after turning from sin.
More sin shows the repentance was a lie to God.

I don't agree for a second.

Testify of my sin or recant that.

Of course Peter sinned after his conversion on the Day of Pentecost. Paul had to directly shove Peter's sin in his face:

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? Gal. 2:11–14.

Yup. Peter was a sinner and committed the sin of fear and dissimulation.

 

[jeremiah1five]

God is so merciful that some of what He had written by and to others in fellowship with Him could be understood by me, out side of fellowship with Him.
What a merciful God !

Oh, sure...there are passages of Scripture that unbelievers can understand. Here's one:

Jesus wept. John 11:35.

 

[Hopeful]

Romans 5:12 says, "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned." The scriptures make it clear that sin and death came into the world when Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree.(Genesis 2:15-17; Genesis 3:1-19)
So the reason humans die, the reason there is death is because human beings are born in sin. The fact that human beings die and don't continue to live forever is evidence that all men are born in sin. Romans 6:23 says, “the wages sin pays is death."

What sin do the aborted die from?
Adam brought death, not sin.
The sins are our own doings.
What sin did Enoch commit?
How about Elijah?
Samuel?
John the Baptist?
If humans are "born in sin", so too was Jesus whose own mother had two sinning parents.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That is the old creature.
I am a new creature now.
Thanks be to God.

BTW, what sin was David's mother charged with?
Surely it must be written of somewhere.

It was the human nature of man (and women).

It may not describe a specific sin which is unnecessary, but the teaching is Scripture is that there is none righteous, there is none that doeth good....

You know the rest in Romans 3:10, 11, etc.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That is the old creature.
I am a new creature now.
Thanks be to God.

BTW, what sin was David's mother charged with?
Surely it must be written of somewhere.

It was the human nature of man (and women).

It may not describe a specific sin which is unnecessary, but the teaching is Scripture is that there is none righteous, there is none that doeth good....

You know the rest in Romans 3:10, 11, etc.

What sin do the aborted die from?
Adam brought death, not sin.
The sins are our own doings.
What sin did Enoch commit?
How about Elijah?
Samuel?
John the Baptist?
If humans are "born in sin", so too was Jesus whose own mother had two sinning parents.

Here's some deep theology.

God charged Adam with the sin of his wifey.

Thus, the sin nature is passed down to the children through the man.

But in the birth of Jesus Joseph was not his father. God was. So, take the man out of the equation and the sin nature passed through the man is absent. Thus, Jesus was called that holy thing in Luke 1.

Holy.

And don't get hung up on the word 'thing.' It is gender-neutral in Greek.

 

[Hopeful]

Of course Peter sinned after his conversion on the Day of Pentecost. Paul had to directly shove Peter's sin in his face:

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? Gal. 2:11–14.

Yup. Peter was a sinner and committed the sin of fear and dissimulation.

What was his sin?
Playing the good host to the visitors?
Had Peter remained with the Gentiles during the visit by the Jews, he would have been accused of sin by the Jews.
He was in a no-win situation.

 

[Hopeful]

Oh, sure...there are passages of Scripture that unbelievers can understand. Here's one:

Jesus wept. John 11:35.

There goes your POV.
If a man want to know God, God doesn't hide from him.

 

[Hopeful]

It was the human nature of man (and women).

It may not describe a specific sin which is unnecessary, but the teaching is Scripture is that there is none righteous, there is none that doeth good....

You know the rest in Romans 3:10, 11, etc.

A nature isn't sin.
Exhibiting that nature is the sin, if the nature is evil.
BTW, the verses of Rom 3 that Paul quoted are all from the OT.
If not, then Jesus has to be included in Paul's sweeping effort to get the Jews he was writing to to admit they too needed a Savior, despite their having the Law.

 

[jeremiah1five]

There goes your POV.
If a man want to know God, God doesn't hide from him.

NO MAN wants to know God:

And this is the condemnation, that light [Christ] is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light [Christ], because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light [Christ], neither cometh to the light [Christ], lest his deeds should be reproved. Jn 3:19–20.

Jesus says everyone hates Him, the Light of the world. He says, they don't even come to him.

Paul backs that up with his quote from the OT:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Rom. 3:11.

 

[Hopeful]

Here's some deep theology.
God charged Adam with the sin of his wifey.

Scripture please.
He had his own sin to deal with.

Thus, the sin nature is passed down to the children through the man.

Depends on the scripture you cite.

But in the birth of Jesus Joseph was not his father. God was. So, take the man out of the equation and the sin nature passed through the man is absent. Thus, Jesus was called that holy thing in Luke 1.

Scripture please.
Sin is not passed down from generation to generation since Ezek 8:20..."The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

 

[Hopeful]

NO MAN wants to know God:

And this is the condemnation, that light [Christ] is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light [Christ], because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light [Christ], neither cometh to the light [Christ], lest his deeds should be reproved. Jn 3:19–20.

Jesus says everyone hates Him, the Light of the world. He says, they don't even come to him.

Paul backs that up with his quote from the OT:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Rom. 3:11.

So true, at the time it was initially written.
Did you seek after God?
Or were you forced to become a Christian?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Scripture please.
He had his own sin to deal with.

Depends on the scripture you cite.

Scripture please.
Sin is not passed down from generation to generation since Ezek 8:20..."The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Gen. 3:17–19.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom. 5:12.

I am not talking about the act of sin of which Ezekiel passage applies, I am talking about the sin nature of man that is NOT like the holy nature of the Son.

 

[jeremiah1five]

So true, at the time it was initially written.
Did you seek after God?
Or were you forced to become a Christian?

No, I did not seek God.
I was not forced to become Christian.
I was in bondage to sin, Christ set me free, and I been a Christian ever since.
After I was set free there was no place else to go.
That's the 'mechanics' of salvation.

 

[JLB]

How can you apply a passage in Hebrews specifically describing Jesus Christ, the Holy One, and apply it to us sinners?

That's just it, I am not a sinner.

A sinner is someone who practices sinning.

Jesus is seperate from sinners.

Saints, Christians, are holy, because they have been, and continually are, cleansed of sin, because they spend time with Him daily, and because they do they confess their sin, and are cleasned of all unrighteousness.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7-9




JLB

 

[Highway54]

“Sin” or “sinful” as Strong defines the word means "missing the mark."
What is the "mark?"
The mark (or standard) is the glory of God (or the glory that is God.)


I used to believe early when after I was saved because I was taught this from the pulpit that man/Adam was created sinless, was holy, and innocent before he disobeyed God and ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and became a sinner. But as I learned more and more through the years how to study, and the Holy Spirit within me began to teach me things about this "so-great salvation" that contradicted at times the teachings from the pulpit and Home Bible-Study instructors, I found myself in a peculiar situation. Do I believe what I am hearing, or do I believe the Scripture and the anointing that was so very evident in my life and in my studies. I trusted the Word of God and what I was coming to see was indeed the building of this "so-great salvation" and the "working out of my own salvation" in my life. I hope there is something in this submission that the Lord uses to also build that "mansion" in your own life. So, in consideration of James 3:11, let me begin.

I find no difference between these two Directives: The Law of God and the Commands of God. The Law of God are His Commands, and the Commands of God are Law. We find in Scripture that the existence of the Law shows us that we are indeed sinners.
A very good, clear, and concise instruction from the apostle Paul on this very thing is found in his letter to the Christians at Rome. He says:

Romans 7:7 (KJV)
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Simply put, the existence of a Law shows us that we are sinners. "Thou shalt not steal" shows us we are thieves. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" shows us that we are unfaithful, and so on. We also learn early on that there is only One God, there is none like Him, and He gives His glory (of which Holiness, Righteousness, Omniscience, Omni-present, etc., are His glory) to NO ONE.

When God created man/Adam from the dust of the ground, the man/Adam possessed no Deific Attributes. God did not give His glory to man. It is quite impossible really, as God cannot re-duplicate, transfer, share, give, any aspect of His Nature and His glory to created matter - in the case of man/Adam who was created from something – the dust of the ground, the earth.

1 Corinthians 15:45-50 (KJV)
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[Verse 50 is significant, as it is relevant to this post, but its inclusion will make this post very long to explain.]

Verse 49 states that man/Adam had "borne the image of the earthy." Yet, Genesis states the [we] are "made" in the image of God who is heavenly (1:26).
So, here we have what seems a contradiction. Which is it? When we find a seeming contradict in Scripture what do we do? Do we take hold of that Scripture that supports our theology? Or do we ask, seek, knock, and search deeper and await God to apply His Truth so that each passage coincides and "fits" His theology? ("theology" is a compound word from two Greek words: "theos" means "God," and "logy" comes from the word "logos," meaning "word" or "thought." Thus, put together means "Word of God."
So, as we consider man/Adam in his creation and apply the Law/Command of God to Adam, and the fact that the existence of [the] Law shows us we are sinners, so does this apply to Adam? Very simple: The Law/Command of God is in the Garden showing Adam (and us) that Adam was sinner before he disobeyed God:

Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, THOU SHALT NOT eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Applying what Paul taught about the existence of the Law in Romans 7:7, it would look like this:

ADAM: "What shall I say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law (or Command): for I had not known DISOBEDIENCE, except the law had said, Thou shalt not [eat of it.]"

Adam did bear the image of God in body, soul, and [human] spirit, a trichotomy. But he was also created of the earth, and thus Paul teaches Adam was "earthy" [of the earth.] The image of God is Christ, not Adam. Adam is of the earth, earthy; the image of God is His Son, Christ. And there is no better image of a Father than a Son.

Man/Adam was created sin-ful, or "missing the mark [of the glory of God]." He was a sinner BEFORE he disobeyed. Thus, he was created sin-ful.

1 Samuel 24:13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked:

Sin [disobedience] comes from sinner, sin does not come from holy. The last Adam proved this. Christ was Holy, Christ was Righteous, Christ was Sinless, He did not sin. But the first man, who bore the image of the earthy (and not of 'heaven' as 1 Cor. 15:49 states), sinned.

He sinned because he was a sinner. He is not a sinner because he sinned.

God created Adam with free will, perfect and sinless, but with the ability to sin.

 

[jeremiah1five]

God created Adam with free will, perfect and sinless, but with the ability to sin.

You contradict yourself. How can one be sinless - which is the nature of Christ - and yet be able to sin. Christ was sinless without the ability to sin. Adam was not sinless and perfect for sin does not come from sinless and perfect. Sin comes from sinners.

And Adam had no free will. He was created a sinner and in bondage to his sinful dirt nature which is why he sinned. And dirt is not sinless or holy. It's a body of this death, Paul said - and for good reason:

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Rom. 7:24–25.

Now, the following is Christianity 101. Let's see if you understand it:

If there is no human law against spitting on the sidewalk and I spit on the sidewalk - even in front of the police - I cannot be cited or arrested for spitting on the sidewalk.

But IF there is a law that says "thou shalt not spit on the sidewalk" and I spit on the sidewalk - whether or not a policeman is there - I have broken the law, right?

"for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Rom. 3:20.

Now look at what Paul says:

(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law
Rom. 5:13.

And

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression. Rom. 5:14.

It doesn't say from Adam's disobedience death reigned, but from Adam the person death reigned - EVEN OVER THEM THAT HAD NOT SINNED AFTER THE SIMILITUDE OF ADAM'S TRANSGRESSION.

Sin - or death - was in the world from Adam to Moses. Back to Christianity 101, the Law shows us we are sinners. If there was no law against eating the forbidden fruit then there would be no evidence Adam was a sinner. But given the law God spoke to Adam of THOU SHALT NOT (eat of it) it proves Adam was a sinner before he sinned. And that's my premise of this post. God created man (Adam) sin-ful which means Adam was not sinless, perfect, holy, innocent, or neutral in his moral disposition. He sinned BECASUE he was a sinner, he is NOT a sinner because he sinned. To take the second part of this last statement destroys the doctrine of imputation of 2 Cor. 5:21.

"for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Rom. 3:20.

And the command/law was in the garden of Eden BEFORE the actual act of sin or law-breaking by Adam.

 

[Mark51]

So God created a junior god?

Adam didn't possess deific attributes of God. He was created fallen short of the glory of God.

Paul calls that being a sinner.

Think carefully, you believe we are sinners because we sin, but Scripture teaches we sin because we are sinners.

Like Adam. He was created fallen short of the glory of God. Sin comes from sinners. Adam sinned because he was a sinner.

As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sa 24:13.

Sin comes from the sinner. Simple.

The Word of God.

To redeem the human family under God’s perfect justice only a “ransom” of equal value could restore what Adam had-with free will-lost. Jesus, as the “last Adam,” gave up his perfect/sinless human life that corresponded/equaled to what Adam had lost.-1 Corinthians 15: 45; 1 Timothy 2:5, 6.

To state that Adam was created with sin would defame God Almighty and –in a sense-accuse Him of being a murderer. Compare Deuteronomy 32:4; Matthew 5:48; James 1:15

 

[for_his_glory]

Of course Peter sinned after his conversion on the Day of Pentecost. Paul had to directly shove Peter's sin in his face:

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? Gal. 2:11–14.

Yup. Peter was a sinner and committed the sin of fear and dissimulation.

The blame was not that Peter committed a sin, but was found of the Jews that came from James as they did not approve of Jews eating with Christian Gentiles as these Jews were still under the law of Moses forbidding Jews to eat with Gentiles. Jews, under the law, had nothing to do with Gentiles deeming them unclean and not worthy of being God's own. Peter knew this of these certain Jews and left the table from the Gentiles in order to look good to this group of men. Peter's choice to leave caused others to do the same. Paul called out Peter as a hypocrite for his action of making himself look good to these certain Jews.