God drags us to Himself John 6:44

[electedbyhim]

A.W. Pink on John 6:43-45

"Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:43, 44).

This word is very solemn coming just at this point, and it is necessary to note carefully its exact connection. It was a word which at once exposed the moral condition and explained the cause of the "murmuring" of these Jews. Great care must be taken to observe what Christ did not say, and precisely what He did say. He did not say, "No man can come to me, except the Father hath given him to me," true as that certainly is. But He spoke here so as to address their human responsibility. It was not designed as a word to repel, but to humble. It was not closing the door in their face, but showed how alone that door could be entered. It was not intended as an intimation that there was no possible hope for them, rather was it a pointing out the direction in which hope lay. Had Saul of Tarsus then been among the number who heard these searching words of Christ, they would have applied in full force in his own case and condition; and yet it became manifest, subsequently, that he was a vessel of mercy, given to the Son by the Father before the foundation of the world. And it is quite possible that some of these very Jews, then murmuring, were among the number who, at Pentecost, were drawn by the Father to believe on the Son. The Lord’s language was carefully chosen, and left room for that. John 7:5 tells us that the Lord’s own brethren (according to the flesh) did not believe on Him at first, and yet, later, they ranked among His disciples, as is clear from Acts 1:14. Let us be careful, then, not to read into this 44th verse what is not there.

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him" (John 6:44). These words of Christ make manifest the depths of human depravity. They expose the inveterate stubbornness of the human will. They explain the "murmuring" of these Jews. In answering them thus, the obvious meaning of the Savior’s words was this: By your murmuring you make it evident that you have not come to Me, that you are not disposed to come to Me; and with your present self-righteousness, you never will come to Me. Before you come to Me you must be converted and become as little children. And before that can take place, you must be the subjects of Divine operation. One has only to reflect on the condition of the natural man in order to see the indubitable truth of this. Salvation is most exactly suited to the sinner’s needs, but it is not at all suited to his natural inclinations. The Gospel is too spiritual for his carnal mind: too humbling for his pride: too exacting for his rebellious will: too lofty for his darkened understanding: too holy for his earthbound desires.

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him."

How can one who has a high conceit of himself and his religious performances admit that all his righteousness’s are as filthy rags? How can one who prides himself on his morality and his religiousness, own himself as lost, undone, and justly condemned? How can one who sees so little amiss in himself, who is blind to the fact that from the crown of his head to the sole of his foot there is no soundness in him (Isa. 1:6), earnestly seek the great Physician? No man with an unchanged heart and mind will ever embrace God’s salvation. The inability here, then, is a moral one. Just as when Christ also said, "how can ye, being evil, speak good things?" (Matthew 12:34). And again, "How can ye believe, which receive honor one of another?" (John 5:44). And again, "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive" (John 14:17). Water will not flow uphill, nor will the natural man act contrary to his corrupt nature. An evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit, and equally impossible is it for a heart that loves the darkness to also love the light.

The depravity of man is, from the human side, the only thing which will explain the general rejection of the Gospel. The only satisfactory answer to the questions, Why is not Christ cordially received by all to whom He is presented? Why do the majority of men despise and reject Him? is man is a fallen creature, a depraved being who loves sin and hates holiness. So, too, the only satisfactory answer which can be given to the questions, Why is the Gospel cordially received by any man? Why is it not obstinately rejected by all? is, In the case of those who believe, God has, by His supernatural influence, counteracted against the human depravity; in other words, the Father has "drawn" to the Son.

The condition of the natural man is altogether beyond human repair. To talk about exerting the will is to ignore the state of the man behind the will. Man’s will has not escaped the general wreckage of his nature. When man fell, every part of his being was affected. Just as truly as the sinner’s heart is estranged from God and his understanding darkened, so is his will enslaved by sin. To predicate the freedom of the will is to deny that man is totally depraved. To say that man has the power within himself to either reject or accept Christ, is to repudiate the fact that he is the captive of the Devil. It is to say there is at least one good thing in the flesh. It is to flatly contradict this word of the Son of God—"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him."

Man’s only hope lies outside of himself, in Divine help. And this is what we meant above when we said that this word of Christ was not intended to close the door of hope, but pointed out the direction in which hope lay. If it be true that I cannot get away from myself; if it be true that my whole being is depraved, and therefore at enmity with God; if it be true that I am powerless to reverse the tendency of my nature, what then can I do? Why, acknowledge my helplessness, and cry for help. What should a man do who falls down and breaks his hip? He cannot rise: should he, then, lie there in his misery and perish? Not if he has any desire for relief. He will lift up his voice and summon assistance. And if these murmuring Jews had believed what Christ told them about their helplessness, this is what they had done. And if the unsaved today would only believe God when He says that the sinner is lost, he, too, would call for a Deliverer. If I cannot come to Christ except the Father "draws" me, then my responsibility is to beg the Father to "draw" me.
In what, we may inquire, does this "drawing" consist? It certainly has reference to something more than the invitation of the Gospel. The word used is a strong one, signifiying, the putting forth of power and obliging the object seized to respond. The same word is found in John 18:10; John 21:6, 11. If the reader consults these passages he will find that it means far more than "to attract." Impel would give the true force of it here in John 6:44.

As said above, the unregenerate sinner is so depraved that with an unchanged heart and mind he will never come to Christ. And the change which is absolutely essential is one which God alone can produce. It is, therefore, by Divine "drawing" that any one comes to Christ. What is this "drawing"? We answer, It is the power of the Holy Spirit overcoming the self-righteousness of the sinner, and convicting him of his lost condition. It is the Holy Spirit awakening within him a sense of need. It is the power of the Holy Spirit overcoming the pride of the natural man, so that he is ready to come to Christ as an empty-handed beggar. It is the Holy Spirit creating within him an hunger for the bread of life.

"It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God" (John 6:45). Our Lord confirms what He had just said by an appeal to the Scriptures. The reference is to Isaiah 54:13: "And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord." This serves to explain, in part at least, the meaning of "draw." Those drawn are they who are "taught of God." And who are these, so highly favored? The quotation from Isaiah 54 tells us: they are God’s "children"; His own, His elect. Notice carefully how our Lord quoted Isaiah 54:13. He simply said, "And they shall be all taught of God." This helps us to define the "all" in other passages, like John 12:32: "I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto Me." The "all" does not mean all of humanity, but all of God’s children, all His elect.

"Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me" (John 6:45).

This also throws light on the "drawing" of the previous verse. Those drawn are they who have "heard" and "learned of the Father." That is to say, God has given them an ear to hear and a heart to perceive. It is parallel with what we get in 1 Corinthians 1:23, 24: "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness: But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." "Called" here refers to the effectual and irresistible call of God. It is a call which is heard with the inward ear. It is a call which is instinct with Divine power, drawing its object to Christ Himself.

 

[Iconoclast]

Difficult to face the truth of scripture.

It is not difficult when a person understands it.

So you resort to denigration.

You insisted I was not answering you, which I have been. You do not accept the biblical answers given. I tried to avoid answering you, because you questions are repeats of what you have asked for months, and have been answered several times..As you continue to hate the truth of God, your questions either blame God for mans sin, or suggest profane things about the biblical God. I am just pointing out what is obvious. Do not get mad at me for answering your misguided questions.

The last ditch attempt to NOT explain something that CANNOT be explained.

It was easily explained. You do not read well, as I showed what you should look at in a way you cannot explain it away as you do all the time.

No use for further conversation.
You are UNABLE to explain your reformed beliefs.

You lack the ability to understand the truth of God. You make emotional, or religious philosophical arguments that are anti scriptural, yet you attack the truths reformed people understand very well. That is why you suggest the response denigrates you, it just exposes your error.

Telling someone they don't understand is easy.
Explaining is difficult.

What is difficult for you is to keep rejecting truth offered to you, so you attack the messengers, who correct your mistaken ideas.

 

[journeyman]

First, there is no "us" in John 6:44.

Yes there is, because Jesus is speaking of people coming to Him because they have learned of the Father.

The Jews learned first through their Prophets. This is why Paul says,

to the Jew first and also to the Greek Rom.1:16 KJV

Gentiles simply learned of the Father later through His Son. The letter to the Hebrews says,

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. Heb.1:1-2

Until the Apostles, the Jewish people didn't believe their coming Messiah created heaven and earth. As far as I know, Rabbinic Judaism does teach the Messiah will die, but will be resurrected with everyone else, like any other king from the OT.

Joh 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

John 6:45 explains John 6:44

To the Jews who heard and learned of the Father from their Torrah, yes. From hearing 2000+ years later about the Father because of the Son, also yes.

The shocking way Jesus died occured before the Apostles understood the Messiah is our Creator. It gives a better understanding of,

Moreover the law entered that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded grace did much more abound: Rom.5:20 KJV

Grace has abounded to all mankind like never before because never before was our Creator seen in One Person on earth and mankind sinned directly against Him.

So the grace He showed is so we see our sins as mocking Him. Jesus doesn't have to drag believers anywhere.

Believers need to cling to Jesus as tight as they can because it's hard to love haters.

And don't challenge my expert knowledge of haters because I was one for most of my life. I'm retired now.

 

[electedbyhim]

Yes there is, because Jesus is speaking of people coming to Him because they have learned of the Father.

The Jews learned first through their Prophets. This is why Paul says,

to the Jew first and also to the Greek Rom.1:16 KJV

Gentiles simply learned of the Father later through His Son. The letter to the Hebrews says,

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. Heb.1:1-2

Until the Apostles, the Jewish people didn't believe their coming Messiah created heaven and earth. As far as I know, Rabbinic Judaism does teach the Messiah will die, but will be resurrected with everyone else, like any other king from the OT.

To the Jews who heard and learned of the Father from their Torrah, yes. From hearing 2000+ years later about the Father because of the Son, also yes.

The shocking way Jesus died occured before the Apostles understood the Messiah is our Creator. It gives a better understanding of,

Moreover the law entered that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded grace did much more abound: Rom.5:20 KJV

Grace has abounded to all mankind like never before because never before was our Creator seen in One Person on earth and mankind sinned directly against Him.

So the grace He showed is so we see our sins as mocking Him. Jesus doesn't have to drag believers anywhere.

Believers need to cling to Jesus as tight as they can because it's hard to love haters.

And don't challenge my expert knowledge of haters because I was one for most of my life. I'm retired now.

This is not wat the point of John 6:44 is saying.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[journeyman]

This is not wat the point of John 6:44 is saying.

Yes it is. That article you cited by A.W. Pink says, ".....if these murmuring Jews had believed what Christ told them about their helplessness, this is what they had done."

But they were't murmuring because Jesus told them they were sinners in need of repentance. They were murmuring because Jesus said He came down from Heaven. They knew Joseph and Mary. They were puzzled, not totally depraved.

Grace and peace to you.

And they also had the grace and peace of God wrong. They thought the Messiah would destroy His human enemies and those left would live in peace by His teachings.

People who follow Jesus have real peace because the Messiah conquered death.

 

[electedbyhim]

Yes it is. That article you cited by A.W. Pink says, ".....if these murmuring Jews had believed what Christ told them about their helplessness, this is what they had done."

But they were't murmuring because Jesus told them they were sinners in need of repentance. They were murmuring because Jesus said He came down from Heaven. They knew Joseph and Mary. They were puzzled, not totally depraved.

And they also had the grace and peace of God wrong. They thought the Messiah would destroy His human enemies and those left would live in peace by His teachings.

People who follow Jesus have real peace because the Messiah conquered death.

I understand that.

But Pink was quoting vs. 43, not 44 at that point.

Joh n6:43 Jesus answered and said to them, “Stop grumbling among yourselves.

So you do not believe God draws people because they can choose to come to God on their own, is that correct?

 

[Whatever]

So you do not believe God draws people because they can choose to come to God on their own, is that correct?

I'll throw my 2 cents worth. If men can come on their own, why does Jesus say:
Joh_6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him. . .

Why does the Father have to draw anybody if they have free will?

Joh 5:40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Was the Father drawing these guys? How come these guys didn't want to come?

Joh 5:44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?

That is a rhetorical question with the obvious answer "they can't." They had free will but their wills were bound by their seeking the honor of men.

 

[electedbyhim]

I'll throw my 2 cents worth. If men can come on their own, why does Jesus say:
Joh_6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him. . .

Why does the Father have to draw anybody if they have free will?

Joh 5:40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Was the Father drawing these guys? How come these guys didn't want to come?

Joh 5:44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?

That is a rhetorical question with the obvious answer "they can't." They had free will but their wills were bound by their seeking the honor of men.

Agreed.

However, many do not interpret the verse that way.

 

[Whatever]

However, many do not interpret the verse that way.

Yeah I know. Arminians interpret "draw" as woo or entice. Some believe in prevenient grace that God gives everybody to enable them to come. They say they believe in total depravity and then take it away with prevenient grace.

 

[electedbyhim]

Yeah I know. Arminians interpret "draw" as woo or entice. Some believe in prevenient grace that God gives everybody to enable them to come. They say they believe in total depravity and then take it away with prevenient grace.

Agreed.

 

[journeyman]

I understand that.

But Pink was quoting vs. 43, not 44 at that point.

Joh n6:43 Jesus answered and said to them, “Stop grumbling among yourselves.

I know that. Why were they grumbling? Because Jesus grew up in Nazareth, 20 miles away from Capernaum. In another place it says they know not only His parents but His siblings. They only murmured because they saw Him grow up and didn't understand what, "I came down from Heaven" meant.

So you do not believe God draws people because they can choose to come to God on their own, is that correct?

No. I believe understanding the love of God properly draws us to Him. If everyone on this planet followed Christ, crime wouldn't exist. Sin, war etc. wouldn't exist. Who wouldn't be compelled to follow Jesus?
And He wasn't worried about His enemies. He put the last one down 2 thousand years ago.

 

[electedbyhim]

I know that. Why were they grumbling? Because Jesus grew up in Nazareth, 20 miles away from Capernaum. In another place it says they know not only His parents but His siblings. They only murmured because they saw Him grow up and didn't understand what, "I came down from Heaven" meant.

No. I believe understanding the love of God properly draws us to Him. If everyone on this planet followed Christ, crime wouldn't exist. Sin, war etc. wouldn't exist. Who wouldn't be compelled to follow Jesus?
And He wasn't worried about His enemies. He put the last one down 2 thousand years ago.

No. I believe understanding the love of God properly draws us to Him. If everyone on this planet followed Christ, crime wouldn't exist. Sin, war etc. wouldn't exist. Who wouldn't be compelled to follow Jesus?
And He wasn't worried about His enemies. He put the last one down 2 thousand years ago.

Do you not understand that the Bible teaches that the unregenerate does not understand the love of God or God.

The unregenerate have a sin tainted perception of love.

The unregenerate cannot be drawn to God other than God doing the drawing "dragging". Nothing else
will draw a man to Him.

 

[journeyman]

Do you not understand that the Bible teaches that the unregenerate does not understand the love of God or God.

Yes I do understand that. The "unregenerate" aren't sinners who can't accept the gospel. They're sinners who won't accept the gospel.

The unregenerate have a sin tainted perception of love.

Every sinner does.

The unregenerate cannot be drawn to God other than God doing the drawing "dragging". Nothing else
will draw a man to Him.

You're saying seeing Christ suffer rather than end His torment by holding lawbreakers responsible and condemning them by law, isn't enough to draw sinners to God,

But God commendeth his love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Rom.5:8 KJV

That's how we perceive the love of God.

 

[Fastfredy0]

That's how we perceive the love of God.

Agape love is goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight in the object of love.
If an individual spends eternity in hell then this is irrefutable evidence that the said individual is not the object of goodwill, benevolence and willful delight (love). What father tortures his offspring for eternity and yet is said to love his offspring; that is ridiculous.
... and even if you believe in "free willianism" ... God, who knows the future, could still have saved the individual (assuming God "loved" him) by seeing to it that the individual's mother's egg was never fertilized.
Now God loves everyone to some degree (the rain falls on the good and evil ones), but those He loved even before they existed (His sheep) He shows His love (goodwill, benevolence) by saving them from hell.

 

[journeyman]

Agape love is goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight in the object of love.

Which is why God would never want His Son tormented.

This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. Mt.3:17 KJV

Fastfredy0:
What father tortures his offspring for eternity and yet is said to love his offspring; that is ridiculous.

A Father torturing His Son at all is ridiculous.

 

[Fastfredy0]

A Father torturing His Son at all is ridiculous.

LOL

Are you aware that the Father's (God) Son (Jesus) was tortured on the cross per God's request? Or, you feel the God telling Christ He must be tortured is ridiculus?

• Acts 4:27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.
• Isaiah 53:10 Yet is pleased God to bruise him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt,
• John 3:16

 

[Whatever]

Which is why God would never want His Son tormented.

This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. Mt.3:17 KJV

This is the mistake of taking one passage and thinking it is the last word.

The Father talking about Jesus:
Isa 53:2 For He (Jesus) shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, There is no beauty that we should desire Him. 53:3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. . . .
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.

Bruise = dâkâ' = to crumble; transitively to bruise (literally or figuratively): - beat to pieces, break (in pieces), bruise, contrite, crush, destroy, humble, oppress, smite.

 

[journeyman]

LOL

Are you aware that the Father's (God) Son (Jesus) was tortured on the cross per God's request?

No. He was tortured by lawbreakers yet withheld His wrath against sinners per Gods' request.

Or, you feel the God telling Christ He must be tortured is ridiculus?

Or else immediately destroy His enemies? Of course not.
It's the degree of love Jesus showed toward sinners who hated Him (and therefore His Father) which draws sinners to Him.

Acts 4:27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

To proclaim to Jews and gentiles worldwide His love for all yes.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet is pleased God to bruise him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt,

To correct only. To teach His children how He wants His children to respond to sinners.

John 3:16

1Pet.2:20 is how Jesus (and therefore His Father) love the world.

 

[journeyman]

This is the mistake of taking one passage and thinking it is the last word.

It certainly is Whatever.
That is a big problem.

The Father talking about Jesus:

No it's sinners talking about Jesus and God knowing it in advance.

Isa 53:2 For He (Jesus) shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, There is no beauty that we should desire Him. 53:3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. . . .

Many of them believed Jesus was guilty of a crime punishable by death. They "esteemed" wrong.

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.

The "chastisement" that all Gods' children experience, "it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness to them....."Heb.12:11

"the chastisement of our peace was upon him....." Isa.53:5, means Jesus submitted to His Fathers' correction. It doesn't mean He needed correction. It doesn't mean we escape correction.

Bruise = dâkâ' = to crumble; transitively to bruise (literally or figuratively): - beat to pieces, break (in pieces), bruise, contrite, crush, destroy, humble, oppress, smite.

But I say unto you Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you; Mt.5:44 KJV

I don't think you clearly see how Jesus wept over sinners.

He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied Isa.53:11 KJV

 

[electedbyhim]

It certainly is Whatever.
That is a big problem.

No it's sinners talking about Jesus and God knowing it in advance.

Many of them believed Jesus was guilty of a crime punishable by death. They "esteemed" wrong.

The "chastisement" that all Gods' children experience, "it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness to them....."Heb.12:11

"the chastisement of our peace was upon him....." Isa.53:5, means Jesus submitted to His Fathers' correction. It doesn't mean He needed correction. It doesn't mean we escape correction.


But I say unto you Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you; Mt.5:44 KJV

I don't think you clearly see how Jesus wept over sinners.

He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied Isa.53:11 KJV

Fastfredy0 and Whatever are spot on.

You have your own interpretation, but it is not Biblical.

What are your sources?