God drags us to Himself John 6:44

[jasonc]

Please start a new thread and we will debate this.

You are not understanding these verses.

Stay on topic, why is that so hard to do?

Human pride gets in the way.

All that you have given to me I haven't lost ,save the son of perdition.

If a child is lost ,the law doesn't hold the child responsible but the parent if found negligent.

I see Jesus having such a command to keep his flock ..

 

[Fastfredy0]

Each of us has choice whether to serve Christ to the end or not.

Those who endure to the end will be saved.

Well, if one is saved and believes he could lose his salvation then suicide would be the right approach during the "saved phase" if one is to play the odds efficiently.

 

[journeyman]

Again, what are you talking about repentance for?

Who is talking about God tolerating sin?

What do you think our Lord was doing hanging on the cross? You think the law approves of murder? You think bearing false witness against an innocent man is acceptable with God.

 

[electedbyhim]

What do you think our Lord was doing hanging on the cross? You think the law approves of murder? You think bearing false witness against an innocent man is acceptable with God.

What is your point?

Do you still sin?

What does this have to do with the op?

 

[journeyman]

What is your point?

My point is that Jesus loved sinners who treated Him miserably. Our Father does this every day.

Do you still sin?

No. I do what the Spirit says. I get victory over temptation this way,

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Jas.4:7

Put the battle gear on.

What does this have to do with the op?

It's the love God shows sinners that "draws" us to Him.

 

[electedbyhim]

My point is that Jesus loved sinners who treated Him miserably. Our Father does this every day.

No. I do what the Spirit says. I get victory over temptation this way,

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Jas.4:7

Put the battle gear on.


It's the love God shows sinners that "draws" us to Him.

This has nothing to do with the o.p.

Your like the other self-deceived person on this forum who thinks you never sin as a Christian.

Please stay on topic.

 

[journeyman]

This has nothing to do with the o.p.

Seeing the Son of God withhold His wrath against sin being committed against Him is grace that I find irresistable and He did it out of love for all sinners.

Your like the other self-deceived person on this forum who thinks you never sin as a Christian.

I understand I've sinned against God. I understand how the devil lies to me. He wants me to believe that I cannot quench his fiery darts. Satan wants me to live in defeat but I believe what the Bible says,

Put on the whole armour of God that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. Eph.6:11 KJV

Please stay on topic.

People are drawn by the love Jesus shows. God doesn't drag anyone against his will.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, you can't ... but people have beliefs and in order to sustain them the have to find evidence where none exists (John 3:16 being the most maligned verse in the Bible).
.... anyways ... Romans 1:19 says "because that which is known about God is evident within them [in their inner consciousness], for God made it evident to them" .... so even though Romans 1 never speaks of salvation (only condemnation) they somehow figure that the verse says that God is evident to everyone and then apply Free Willianism somehow such that someone can somehow be saved. It's a subliminal gospel (giggle). GodsGrace believes in inclusivism which "depreciates the Incarnation, depreciates the work and atonement of Christ, denies the uniqueness of the Bible, denies the necessity of gospel truth, substitutes the same old philosophical junk about the 'universal logos' at work in all religious systems". John MacArthur
I know of 20ish verses saying you go to hell if you have never heard of Christ yet Romans 1 is used to contradict scripture to fix yet another logical hole in Free Willianism.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-happens-to-those-who-never-hear-gospel/ this URL talks about the subject if you are interested in looking into this heresy further. *giggle*

 

[GodsGrace]

2 thess.2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord,
because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation

through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The above states HOW we will be saved.
Not WHO will be saved.


2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 Your verse
13But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
14It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
The above states that God has chosen us to be saved THROUGH SANCTIFICATION BY THE SPIRIT.
This is a HOW, not a WHO.


Also, Verse 15 exhorts us to HOLD TO THE TRADITION which we are taught....
Why?
To maintain our salvation, a concept not in keeping with Perseverance of the Saints.

Paul taught thay salvation can be forfieted, proving that Perseverance of the Saints is not a correct teaching.

Here is what Paul taught:

Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, [this is HOW we are saved] in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— [this is WHY we are saved].
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


We will be saved IF we persevere to the end, IF we CONTINUE in the faith....

The bible teaches us God's laws,
Calvin teaches man's laws.

 

[journeyman]

The above states HOW we will be saved.
Not WHO will be saved.


2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 Your verse
13But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
14It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
The above states that God has chosen us to be saved THROUGH SANCTIFICATION BY THE SPIRIT.
This is a HOW, not a WHO.


Also, Verse 15 exhorts us to HOLD TO THE TRADITION which we are taught....
Why?
To maintain our salvation, a concept not in keeping with Perseverance of the Saints.

Paul taught thay salvation can be forfieted, proving that Perseverance of the Saints is not a correct teaching.

Here is what Paul taught:

Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, [this is HOW we are saved] in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— [this is WHY we are saved].
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


We will be saved IF we persevere to the end, IF we CONTINUE in the faith....

The bible teaches us God's laws,
Calvin teaches man's laws.

I agree. Congregations often hear,

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus Rom.8:1 KJV

But those in Christ are defined as those who,

walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom.8:1 KJV

 

[electedbyhim]

Seeing the Son of God withhold His wrath against sin being committed against Him is grace that I find irresistable and He did it out of love for all sinners.

I understand I've sinned against God. I understand how the devil lies to me. He wants me to believe that I cannot quench his fiery darts. Satan wants me to live in defeat but I believe what the Bible says,

Put on the whole armour of God that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. Eph.6:11 KJV

People are drawn by the love Jesus shows. God doesn't drag anyone against his will.

No one has a will to seek God.

No one can seek God.

As for sin, all Christians fall into sin in this life in one form or another.

We will be sinless when when we get home.

 

[electedbyhim]

Seeing the Son of God withhold His wrath against sin being committed against Him is grace that I find irresistable and He did it out of love for all sinners.

I understand I've sinned against God. I understand how the devil lies to me. He wants me to believe that I cannot quench his fiery darts. Satan wants me to live in defeat but I believe what the Bible says,

Put on the whole armour of God that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. Eph.6:11 KJV

People are drawn by the love Jesus shows. God doesn't drag anyone against his will.

People are drawn by the love Jesus shows. God doesn't drag anyone against his will.

John 6:44 says He drags us to Him.

 

[jasonc]

John 6:44 says He drags us to Him.

I wasn't planning that day to be saved .church was the farthest thing from my mind .

 

[Iconoclast]

The above states HOW we will be saved.
Not WHO will be saved.

Yes, it tells us who.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 Your verse
13But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
14It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
The above states that God has chosen us to be saved THROUGH SANCTIFICATION BY THE SPIRIT.
This is a HOW, not a WHO.

I cannot read for you, you need to look. I will suggest what you do not see. Lets see WHO he had in mind;

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, for you, brethren beloved by the Lord,.[that is the Elect]......5So then, brethren, stand firm

Also, Verse 15 exhorts us to HOLD TO THE TRADITION which we are taught....
Why?
To maintain our salvation, a concept not in keeping with Perseverance of the Saints.

This has nothing to do with perseverance, but rather holding truth while the others turn from the truth of God's grace

Paul taught thay salvation can be forfieted, proving that Perseverance of the Saints is not a correct teaching.

Your hatred for the truth of God's grace causes you to post such foolish ideas. Salvation cannot be forfeited which shows you do not understand what biblical salvation consists of.

Here is what Paul taught:

Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, [this is HOW we are saved] in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— [this is WHY we are saved].
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


We will be saved IF we persevere to the end, IF we CONTINUE in the faith....

The bible teaches us God's laws,
Calvin teaches man's laws.

Such an idiotic statement comes from someone with a pelagian understanding. Your hatred of these truths will not allow you to come to truth.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, it tells us who.

I cannot read for you, you need to look. I will suggest what you do not see. Lets see WHO he had in mind;


This has nothing to do with perseverance, but rather holding truth while the others turn from the truth of God's grace


Your hatred for the truth of God's grace causes you to post such foolish ideas. Salvation cannot be forfeited which shows you do not understand what biblical salvation consists of.

Such an idiotic statement comes from someone with a pelagian understanding. Your hatred of these truths will not allow you to come to truth.

Difficult to face the truth of scripture.
So you resort to denigration.
The last ditch attempt to NOT explain something that CANNOT be explained.

No use for further conversation.
You are UNABLE to explain your reformed beliefs.

Telling someone they don't understand is easy.
Explaining is difficult.

 

[journeyman]

No one has a will to seek God.

then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. Gen.4:26 KJV

No one can seek God.

But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. Deu.4:29 KJV

As for sin, all Christians fall into sin in this life in one form or another.
We will be sinless when when we get home.

The doctrine that believers will always commit some sin isn't true. All Christians battle sin and get victory over it.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom.8:1 KJV

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Gal.5:16 KJV

It's better to listen to what God says than listening to the devils lies.

 

[journeyman]

John 6:44 says He drags us to Him.

"Us", meaning those who previously heard and learned of the Father.

that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father Jn.6:45

Believers are compelled by what they know of God.

 

[electedbyhim]

Difficult to face the truth of scripture.
So you resort to denigration.
The last ditch attempt to NOT explain something that CANNOT be explained.

No use for further conversation.
You are UNABLE to explain your reformed beliefs.

Telling someone they don't understand is easy.
Explaining is difficult.

I have to agree with @Iconoclast, I do not see that you fully understand the reformed position on many topics. I have read his replies to you and find that he answers truthfully.

Please do not take this personal. It is just not in this thread but others as well. It is not only you but other members have the same ideas.

I believe, that human pride blocks Christians from seeing the truth from the reformed teachings. These teachings are found Biblical and established. The Reformed did not come up with this teaching. The Bible has taught these doctrines way before any reformer.

This is in no way trying to denigrate anyone.

There is nothing wrong with telling someone that they do not understand.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have to agree with @Iconoclast, I do not see that you fully understand the reformed position on many topics. I have read his replies to you and find that he answers truthfully.

Please do not take this personal. It is just not in this thread but others as well. It is not only you but other members have the same ideas.

I believe, that human pride blocks Christians from seeing the truth from the reformed teachings. These teachings are found Biblical and established. The Reformed did not come up with this teaching. The Bible has taught these doctrines way before any reformer.

This is in no way trying to denigrate anyone.

There is nothing wrong with telling someone that they do not understand.

Grace and peace to you.

He does a lot more than tell me I don't understand. That would be acceptable.

later....must leave the house.
But I'd like to discuss what you think we non Al's dont understand.

 

[electedbyhim]

"Us", meaning those who previously heard and learned of the Father.


Believers are compelled by what they know of God.

First, there is no "us" in John 6:44.

that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father Jn.6:45

Joh 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

Jesus paraphrased Isaiah 54:13 to support the point that if someone comes to faith and repentance to God, it is because they have been "taught," and hence drawn, by God. The "drawing" and "learning" are just different aspects of God's sovereign direction in the person's life. Those taught by God to grasp the truth are also drawn by God the Father to embrace the Son.

John 6:45 explains John 6:44