God's Conditional Grace

[Eventide]

There was a remnant of Israel that obeyed in Acts 2. The rest could be saved if they would submit/obey the righteousness (commandments) of God, Rom 10:3.

Although the more crucial understanding is that the nation of Israel was cut off from the root and their house was left desolate..

They will be grafted in again though, in the end.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Although the more crucial understanding is that the nation of Israel was cut off from the root and their house was left desolate..

They will be grafted in again though, in the end.

Only the ones that obey the gospel will be grafted in.

In Rom 11:16ff the "first fruits" were those Jews in Acts 2 who were the first to become Christians and placed in the church. The Jews that did not obey were broken off from these Christian Jews that did obey.

The Gentiles that obey the gospel as Cornelius, would be grafted in with those Jews of Acts 2 that also obeyed and both Jew and Gentile make up the church.


But as Paul said in Rom 10:3 those Jews that were lost could still obey the gospel and be grafted in with the Christian Jews and Gentiles. Those Jews and Gentiles that do not obey the gospel will never be grafted in and will be lost.

 

[Eventide]

BCC ?

I've been in one assembly that actually taught that baptizing its members saved them.. And not only that, but even if you were baptized in a different church, it didn't count. They also taught because of this that they were Christ's one true church on earth..

IMO there's seemingly no end to how fanatical people can get with doctrine.. Although Paul says to let each man be persuaded in his own mind... Iow let the Spirit of God do its work in a person.. Forcing them to do it without conviction is pointless IMO.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Re: BCC ?

I've been in one assembly that actually taught that baptizing its members saved them.. And not only that, but even if you were baptized in a different church, it didn't count. They also taught because of this that they were Christ's one true church on earth..

IMO there's seemingly no end to how fanatical people can get with doctrine.. Although Paul says to let each man be persuaded in his own mind... Iow let the Spirit of God do its work in a person.. Forcing them to do it without conviction is pointless IMO.

Christ only established ONE church and not a multitude of churches or denominations. Christ told Peter upon this rock I will build my church (singular). So one must be scripturally baptized into this one church, one body of Christ.

Rom 14:5 Paul was not dealing with doctrine such as water baptism but matters of opinions.

 

[Eventide]

Re: BCC ?

Christ only established ONE church and not a multitude of churches or denominations. Christ told Peter upon this rock I will build my church (singular). So one must be scripturally baptized into this one church, one body of Christ.

Rom 14:5 Paul was not dealing with doctrine such as water baptism but matters of opinions.

I agree that there is only one body of Christ, His.. Although are you suggesting that this is exclusive to your assembly because of baptism ?

 

[rrowell]

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Yes, "written aforetime were written for our learning"

it is now our Schoolmaster:

Galatians 3:24 (KJV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But it was nailed to the Cross:
Colossians 2:14 (KJV)
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

and now that we have Christ and his new Covenant we no longer use it for anything but "learning":

Galatians 3:25 (KJV)
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[rrowell]

IMO that is absurd...

Christ in Him was just some demonstration to the Jews ?

We'll simply need to disagree on this one.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit did NOT have anything to do Cornelius personal salvation, it had to do with the first thing out of Peters mouth when he began preaching to him:

Acts 10:34-35 (KJV)
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

The Apostles (Jews) were the ONLY Jews baptized with the Holy Spirit, The house of Cornelius (Gentile) were the ONLY Gentiles baptized with the Holy Spirit.

It was to show Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: and "after" this Holy Spirit baptism what did Peter tell them?

Acts 10:47-48 (KJV)
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

It was NOT to demonstrate obedience or faith that they were told to be baptized with "water" (they had clearly already done that), It was so they would be saved!

 

[Eventide]

The baptism of the Holy Spirit did NOT have anything to do Cornelius personal salvation, it had to do with the first thing out of Peters mouth when he began preaching to him:

Again, IMO that's absurd.. Because that is what salvation or regeneration is...being baptized into Christ by the miraculous power of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:34-35 (KJV)
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

The Apostles (Jews) were the ONLY Jews baptized with the Holy Spirit, The house of Cornelius (Gentile) were the ONLY Gentiles baptized with the Holy Spirit.

It was to show Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: and "after" this Holy Spirit baptism what did Peter tell them?

Acts 10:47-48 (KJV)
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

It was NOT to demonstrate obedience or faith that they were told to be baptized with "water" (they had clearly already done that), It was so they would be saved!

Funny isn't it... There's not a single mention of salvation after they were baptized... Because they were already baptized into Christ by God, and saved.

What must I do to be saved.. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

 

[Mitspa]

Re: Chosen By God

What's more sad is the fact that Calvinists can't even begin to fathom that they're wrong about anything.. They're all infallible in their spoon fed doctrines..

What makes it hilarious is their inability to answer perhaps one of the most simple and fundamental questions in the scriptures.

What must I do to be saved ?

a) Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ

b) nothing, I'm chosen by God

I must admit i know almost nothing of their doctrines? I cant even say that i have ever met a calvinist? Do they have horns?

No really! are they having a great influence upon the Church?
I am from The South here in the U.S.
The gospel here is hindered by many! the calvins are not an issue here!

 

[BornAgain]

Are we to stick to the exact order here
Repent
baptized
receive

That implies we never need repent again..

The order is hear, believe, repent, confess, and be baptized.

 

[Danus]

The order is hear, believe, repent, confess, and be baptized.

I like faith in place of believe, but my own experience and understanding follows this order.

 

[BornAgain]

I like faith in place of believe, but my own experience and understanding follows this order.

Faith comes by hearing the gospel....that is a good order.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Chosen By God

I must admit i know almost nothing of their doctrines? I cant even say that i have ever met a calvinist? Do they have horns?

No really! are they having a great influence upon the Church?
I am from The South here in the U.S.
The gospel here is hindered by many! the calvins are not an issue here!

So hopefully then you folks down south know the scriptural answer to this simple question..

What must I do to be saved ?

a) Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved..

b) Nothing, I'm chosen by God

 

[rrowell]

Funny isn't it... There's not a single mention of salvation after they were baptized... Because they were already baptized into Christ by God, and saved.

No more "Funny" than the fact there is not a single mention of salvation in their baptism of the Holy Ghost, but to this conclusion have "you" drawn...

If their baptism of the Holy Spirit is the one that put them "into Christ" then why did Peter command them to be baptized by water? Does not the Bible teach to be baptized "into Christ" we must be baptized into his death?

Romans 6:3-4 (KJV)
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

by "water baptism" we are buried "submerged into the water", raised up from the dead "come up out of the water" remitting our sins (Acts 2:38) to walk in newness of life, therefore to get "into Christ" we like those in the house of Cornelius must be water baptized.

 

[rrowell]

I like faith in place of believe, but my own experience and understanding follows this order.

Romans 3:22 (KJV)
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

 

[Mitspa]

Re: Chosen By God

So hopefully then you folks down south know the scriptural answer to this simple question..

What must I do to be saved ?

a) Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved..

b) Nothing, I'm chosen by God

Well this one does! and the point i was making, the "folks" here seem to think your saved for a few mins. by faith. Then you earn the rest by works? law and religions tradition. I dont think we have many" folks" who are calvinist. Is this a real issue or something the legalist bring up to confuse the subject of GRACE?
2Co 2:11

Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

 

[Mitspa]

I think i will let the legalist, unsave people! That seems to be their favorite hobby?

If a calvinist believes they are saved by their doctrine, at least they are showing some sort of FAITH in Gods Word! I will leave it to others to "unsave" them?

How about this scripture for all you who seek to "unsave" others?

Rom 10:6



But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Rom 10:7



Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

 

[rrowell]

Re: Chosen By God

Well this one does! and the point i was making, the "folks" here seem to think your saved for a few mins. by faith. Then you earn the rest by works? law and religions tradition. I dont think we have many" folks" who are calvinist. Is this a real issue or something the legalist bring up to confuse the subject of GRACE?
2Co 2:11

Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

LoL

What even Eventide is saying is salvation is achieved by "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved"... on this we both agree (but are in discussion on what really amounts to what is meant by "believe on the Lord" ;) )

but that "Calvinists" believe God chose only specific individuals before creation to be saved, by God himself only, nothing anything anyone else can do about it, and all others like us are from creation totally lost and can do nothing about it.. of which Evintide and I have no disagreement what so ever that the bible does not teach that...

 

[Mitspa]

Re: Chosen By God

LoL

What even Eventide is saying is salvation is achieved by "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved"... on this we both agree (but are in discussion on what really amounts to what is meant by "believe on the Lord" ;) )

but that "Calvinists" believe God chose only specific individuals before creation to be saved, by God himself only, nothing anything anyone else can do about it, and all others like us are from creation totally lost and can do nothing about it.. of which Evintide and I have no disagreement what so ever that the bible does not teach that...

Maybe part of the confusion, in their doctrine and maybe others doctrine?
Is that God is not bound by our "temporal" realm? "The Lamb slain before the foundations of the world" 1000 years as a day a day as a 1000 years? In Gods mind, He knows the beginning from the end! its a mystery! reserved for those who know Him by faith and love!

1Jn 2:14



I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.

Eph 3:9



And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Eph 3:17



That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18



May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

 

[Mitspa]

Just wondering? Where are all these Calvinist? What name is on their Church?
Like i said i dont think i have ever seen one!

Are you grouping all "grace" teachers into this group?

How many members do they have?

By the way its the LAW that empowers sin! "the strength of sin is the LAW"

Its the LAW that empowers the kingdom of satan!

Col 2:14 (KJV)

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.