God's Conditional Grace

[Ernest T. Bass]

False teaching. Nowhere is said Jesus made Salvation available to all men ! And Christ gives Repentance/ obedience to those He saves Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Heb 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

So Christ died for every man making salvation available to every man. Yet every man will not be saved for every man will not obey Christ, Heb 5:9, and by their siboedience they fail to take advantage to what Christ made available to them.

Acts 5:31 "Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."


Give comes from didōmi and according to Strong's it means:

) to give
2) to give something to someone
a) of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
1) to bestow a gift
b) to grant, give to one asking, let have
c) to supply, furnish, necessary things
d) to give over, deliver
1) to reach out, extend, present
2) of a writing
3) to give over to one's care, intrust, commit
a) something to be administered
b) to give or commit to some one something to be religiously observed
e) to give what is due or obligatory, to pay: wages or reward
f) to furnish, endue
3) to give
a) to cause, profuse, give forth from one's self
1) to give, hand out lots
b) to appoint to an office
c) to cause to come forth, i.e. as the sea, death and Hell are said to give up the dead who have been engulfed or received by them
c) to give one to someone as his own
1) as an object of his saving care
2) to give one to someone, to follow him as a leader and master
3) to give one to someone to care for his interests
4) to give one to someone to whom he already belonged, to return
4) to grant or permit one
a) to commission

So Christ gave repentance as a gift, it was granted to them, an offer, something made available.

Acts 11:18 "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted [didōmi] repentance unto life."

This verse carries the same idea, the Genitles were granted, given opportunity, had repantance made available to them.

It was still up to the Jews and Gentiles to accept this gift of repentance made available to them.

 

[BornAgain]

Thats the only way one does obey God, by God giving them the Spirit ! Acts 5:32

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

In the greek it reads The Holy Ghost God hath given to them obeying Him, obedience is evidence of having been given the Spirit.

Peter said in His Epistle 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The sanctification of the Spirit [New Birth] precedes and effects the obedience !

So you are absolutely in error !

You obviously give man credit for obedience to God, where I give it to Christ and The Holy Spirit !

Peter said in His Epistle 1 Pet 1:2:

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1 Peter 1:2 (KJV)

A theory that God elected certain individuals means he would be a respector of persons which is in conflict with what the scripture tells us. It is conditional for salvation in Matt. 7:21; Luke 13:3; Acts 17:30; 2 Thess. 1:7-9; 1 John 2:4. It takes away from a man's responsibility unworthy of any good done and no condemnation for any good done. All invitations, promises, warnings, threatenings and admonitions to faithfulness in the Word of God become meaningless and without significance. The gospel is addressed to all men: "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned." (Mark 16:15, 16.

Man has to obey in order to receive the sprinkling of the blood. He wanted ALL men to receive the gospel, not just the "elect."

 

[savedbygrace57]

Peter said in His Epistle 1 Pet 1:2:

Duh, I know what Peter wrote, I just posted some of things he wrote, did you not just read it ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Heb 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

So Christ died for every man making salvation available to every man. Yet every man will not be saved for every man will not obey Christ, Heb 5:9, and by their siboedience they fail to take advantage to what Christ made available to them.

Acts 5:31 "Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."


Give comes from didōmi and according to Strong's it means:

) to give
2) to give something to someone
a) of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
1) to bestow a gift
b) to grant, give to one asking, let have
c) to supply, furnish, necessary things
d) to give over, deliver
1) to reach out, extend, present
2) of a writing
3) to give over to one's care, intrust, commit
a) something to be administered
b) to give or commit to some one something to be religiously observed
e) to give what is due or obligatory, to pay: wages or reward
f) to furnish, endue
3) to give
a) to cause, profuse, give forth from one's self
1) to give, hand out lots
b) to appoint to an office
c) to cause to come forth, i.e. as the sea, death and Hell are said to give up the dead who have been engulfed or received by them
c) to give one to someone as his own
1) as an object of his saving care
2) to give one to someone, to follow him as a leader and master
3) to give one to someone to care for his interests
4) to give one to someone to whom he already belonged, to return
4) to grant or permit one
a) to commission

So Christ gave repentance as a gift, it was granted to them, an offer, something made available.

Acts 11:18 "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted [didōmi] repentance unto life."

This verse carries the same idea, the Genitles were granted, given opportunity, had repantance made available to them.

It was still up to the Jews and Gentiles to accept this gift of repentance made available to them.

False teaching. Nowhere is said Jesus made Salvation available to all men ! And Christ gives Repentance/ obedience to those He saves Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[BornAgain]

Duh, I know what Peter wrote, I just posted some of things he wrote, did you not just read it ?

My name is BornAgain please, not duh.

I did read what Peter said and I also commented on it. Did you read it? Please read Mark 16:15....well I will be kind and post it for our guests.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:15 (KJV)
That is, to every responsible human being. Christ commands his disciples to offer salvation to all men. If they reject it, it is at their peril. God is not to be blamed if they do not choose to be saved. His love boundless; grace is free to ALL. The gospel message is limited to man. As man receives the gospel he is raised and elevated by it, and in turn he improves and elevates the lower animal. We find better horses, cattle and stock of all kinds in Christian lands than we do in heathen lands. This is the result of the influence of the gospel on man. As the gospel elevates him, he elevates the lower animal.

 

[Eventide]

Gospel 101

Perhaps it's time to play another round of... "Simple Bible Truths"

1. What must I do to be saved ?

a) Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved

b) Nothing, I'm chosen by God

2. He gives power to become the sons of God to..

a) As many as receive Him

b) All that He has unconditionally chosen

3. God seals a believer with the Holy Spirit of promise..

a) After they trust in Christ, after hearing the gospel, and after they believe

b) Unconditionally, as long as you're one of the elect.. along with the Lord Jesus Christ

4. God gives the gift of His Spirit to..

a) Those that obey Him

b) His elect, those He chooses unconditionally

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

False teaching. Nowhere is said Jesus made Salvation available to all men ! And Christ gives Repentance/ obedience to those He saves Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Heb 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."


Again, Acts 5:31 says Jesus GIVES repentance, so it a gift, an offer, something granted, an opportunity that has to be received. Jesus did not save all of Israel but gave them the gift, the opportunity, the availability for them all to repent and be saved.

 

[Mitspa]

so your church doesnt say "he or she came to the saving knowledge of the lord"?

if yours does then why not agree with peter on the false prophets who knew jesus and then deny him?why does paul teach secure your salvation? why did the lord say he that endure to the the end the same shall be saved? if christ has done it and we dont have to endure then why would he say that?

Well first, i have never used that term? and it could mean alot of things to a lot of people? I would be glad to adress any "scripture" I dont save or unsave anyone! My responsibility is to answer to God for myself. I am forever saved! according to the Word of God! God dont give any other kind of salvation! He has ONE BRAND "eternal"
Isa 51:6

Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

Now if you got a gospel that gives "temporary" salvation? I suggest you should either get the real one? or get saved for real?

this time!

 

[Mitspa]

When God told Naaman he would have to dip 7 times in the Jordan River to come clean, was Naaman a 'legalist' when he did as God said in obeying by dipping 7 times in the Jordan River?

I answer this once for you? OK, was Naaman before the Cross of Christ? what does the number "7" represent? "Gods finished Work"
The point of the story is Naaman was ask to do a simple act of humilty? His pride tried to complicate a simple issue!

2Co 11:3

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I answer this once for you? OK, was Naaman before the Cross of Christ?

Does not matter.

what does the number "7" represent?

Does not matter.

The point of the story is Naaman was ask to do a simple act of humilty? His pride tried to complicate a simple issue!

You did not address whether Naaman doing as God said was legalistic or not.

 

[jasoncran]

Well first, i have never used that term? and it could mean alot of things to a lot of people? I would be glad to adress any "scripture" I dont save or unsave anyone! My responsibility is to answer to God for myself. I am forever saved! according to the Word of God! God dont give any other kind of salvation! He has ONE BRAND "eternal"
Isa 51:6

Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

so why did adam who had more then any christian could ever dream of with YHWH leave him? did god make you serve him? did he reveal himself to you or you to him? he found us not the reverse we seek him not he seek us. but we can refuse him. we can ask god leave and he will. otherwise there would be no temptation by satan to our lord as he had the same choices fully knowing no sin that adam and eve did. no sinners since can have those options to knowingly leave god without him first telling us to leave.

jesus made the curse so that man would come to nought and all is vanity so that we would come to christ. we still can refuse that and walk away. i cant figure it out when you say we have choices and yet you say salvation isnt able to be walked away from.

god overrides our will if you are into eternal security. i suggest you learn what both eternal security is and perservance of the saints.

i can teach you easily.oh im not a legalist. nor do i believe in works based salvation. our walk is a marriage and it must be nourished. we can like a marriage divorce our spouse and they not want it but will allow to leave. that is how god works. he will woo us back but we must come back to him with a simple yes.


i have more from the tanach and the hebrew saints all believed by faith. not works. its in the 13th chapter of hebrews. yet theres a verse that says a righteous man can loose his standing with YHWH.

 

[Mitspa]

Does not matter.



Does not matter.




You did not address whether Naaman doing as God said was legalistic or not.

I have always liked E T Bass! but it "Does not matter"! The Cross of Jesus does not matter? i dont think you and i can relate too much with each other!2

Php 3:18



(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Php 3:19



Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

1Co 1:18



For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.:biglol

 

[Mitspa]

[/SIZE]
so why did adam who had more then any christian could ever dream of with YHWH leave him? did god make you serve him? did he reveal himself to you or you to him? he found us not the reverse we seek him not he seek us. but we can refuse him. we can ask god leave and he will. otherwise there would be no temptation by satan to our lord as he had the same choices fully knowing no sin that adam and eve did. no sinners since can have those options to knowingly leave god without him first telling us to leave.

jesus made the curse so that man would come to nought and all is vanity so that we would come to christ. we still can refuse that and walk away. i cant figure it out when you say we have choices and yet you say salvation isnt able to be walked away from.

god overrides our will if you are into eternal security. i suggest you learn what both eternal security is and perservance of the saints.

i can teach you easily.oh im not a legalist. nor do i believe in works based salvation. our walk is a marriage and it must be nourished. we can like a marriage divorce our spouse and they not want it but will allow to leave. that is how god works. he will woo us back but we must come back to him

I do not doubt your faith or your sincere beliefs! I trust the Word of God! Now if you have some "scripture" i would be glad to consider it? But dont tell me as ET Bass that the Cross is not part of every answer! Because i Know it is!
1Co 1:19

For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20

Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co 1:21

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1Co 1:22

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23

But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1Co 1:25

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

 

[rrowell]

I have always liked E T Bass! but it "Does not matter"! The Cross of Jesus does not matter?

That was not your question!

The question you asked he did answer (and I believe correctly I might add)

 

[jasoncran]

irrevalant scriptures.

now mine. that back my position up.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

holy commandment. these heard the gospel and recieved it. the context here is that as a fool they like a dog eats a bad food and goes back to that vomited food that sickened them. these means these false prophets did know the lord and returned to their sin. they were cleansed. a person can cleanse themselves of any sin. if we can we dont know christ.

 

[Mitspa]

irrevalant scriptures.

now mine. that back my position up.



holy commandment. these heard the gospel and recieved it. the context here is that as a fool they like a dog eats a bad food and goes back to that vomited food that sickened them. these means these false prophets did know the lord and returned to their sin. they were cleansed. a person can cleanse themselves of any sin. if we can we dont know christ.

Thank you for a scripture! and i agree they like the Galatians turned back from grace to the law!


Gal 5:4 (KJV)

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Gal 5:4 (ASV)


Ye are severed from Christ, ye who would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace.

The only biblical way to be seperated from Christ is to turn back to law and self-justification!

This is what Peter is speaking of! now what will happen to them is not stated! it does not sound good for them i admit!
It is a clear warning from God! To those who turn from His mercy!
Here is a few promises to those of us saved By grace:
Heb 13:5for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Heb 13:6

So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper

Joh 10:27 (KJV)

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall anypluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Rom 8:35

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36

As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Rom 8:39 (KJV)

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


I could go on! but you get the point?
Now if you are saying that it my be possible for you to reject salvation? OK! BUT HE IS FAITHFUL THAT PROMISED! And by His Grace i am forever saved! I Cant say what you or others may do but BY GRACE I STAND!
1Co 1:8

Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:9


God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Col 2:6

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Col 2:7

Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 2:10

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

 

[jasoncran]

so then we agree that one can loose one's salvation?in that one can walk away from the lord. he wont leave us but us him

 

[Mitspa]

That was not your question!

The question you asked he did answer (and I believe correctly I might add)

not sure to whom you are speaking? but i have answers his question" twice"!

 

[Mitspa]

so then we agree that one can loose one's salvation?in that one can walk away from the lord. he wont leave us but us him

i agree we can turn away! turn back to law, and self-righteousness! But even if we are not faithful? He remains faithful! i dont believe we can "loose" our salvation! but we have very clear warnings that it is very unwise and destuctive to "reject" the salvation of faith. Now i also do Not take the position that i am the judge of who is saved? or not-saved" or "unsaved"? God will judge the secrets of mens hearts! Not me! I may be called to warn others but not to "unsave" them?

 

[jasoncran]

i agree we can turn away! turn back to law, and self-righteousness! But even if we are not faithful? He remains faithful! i dont believe we can "loose" our salvation! but we have very clear warnings that it is very unwise and destuctive to "reject" the salvation of faith. Now i also do Not take the position that i am the judge of who is saved? or not-saved" or "unsaved"? God will judge the secrets of mens hearts! Not me! I may be called to warn others but not to "unsave" them?

i think we can as peter makes it clear in other verses. shall i go there?.