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God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

wondering said:
Getting what one deserves is not an inherent ability.
If it's inherent, how could I deserve anything? It was there when I was born.
Remember, we're discussing God here, not human qualities.
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If present when born, then it is inherent ability. If it does not originate as a gift given from God after
one's birth, then the only things that they could be, are abilities we are born with
 
rogerg said:
I didn't ask you a question and one that you couldn't answer if I had because of your lack understanding. I made a statement, one that is incontrovertible about your belief.
Anytime someone believes that something, anything, no matter how slight, is required of them for salvation,
then by that, they attempt to make themselves their saviour. Only for those who believe that Christ has already done everything perfectly for them with nothing required of them, of those, had He made Himself their Saviour.
Those are only the elect.
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Who are these elect?

They are either the nation of Israel or those that adhere to God's guidance and rules on HOW to become saved.
They are elect and saved because they want to be.
God does not want forced love out of us.
He wants us to love Him, truly, just like humans want their spouse to love them truly,
and not because they put a pill in their coffee every morning.

And what could we possibly do to SAVE OURSELVES, except WANT to be saved?
Jesus was on that cross, not me or any other human.
It's tiring to hear all the time that we want to be our own savior.
I mean, get that vocabulary out of your mind already.

But
Wait.

AFTER we become saved, God does want from us.
He wants our obedience.
I put some of this in my last post to you about 10 minutes ago so I won't go over it again.

Now, if God wants us and commands us to be obedient...
Doesn't this mean THAT IT'S OUR FREE WILL to obey or not?

Why command us to do something that HE is fully IN CHARGE OF?

And we agreed days and days ago that SALVATION AND FAITH are gifts from God...
could we stop speaking about that?

I should start some threads but I have very little time...
 
rogerg said:
If present when born, then it is inherent ability. If it does not originate as a gift given from God after
one's birth, then the only things that they could be, are abilities we are born with
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I think I said that.
But this is human stuff, like being born a musical genius.

Let's stick to God and the bible.
 
Iconoclast said:
No one is discussing John Calvin, but you.
We are discussing the biblical teaching which you avoid.
You did not attempt to respond to 2 pet.3:9...
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I hear John Calvin being discussed.
I see you posting the LCF.
That's Calvinistic in case you didn't know.

And 2 Peter3:9 how many times would you like me to answer that?
 
wondering said:
Who are these elect?

They are either the nation of Israel or those that adhere to God's guidance and rules on HOW to become saved.
They are elect and saved because they want to be.
God does not want forced love out of us.
He wants us to love Him, truly, just like humans want their spouse to love them truly,
and not because they put a pill in their coffee every morning.

And what could we possibly do to SAVE OURSELVES, except WANT to be saved?
Jesus was on that cross, not me or any other human.
It's tiring to hear all the time that we want to be our own savior.
I mean, get that vocabulary out of your mind already.

But
Wait.

AFTER we become saved, God does want from us.
He wants our obedience.
I put some of this in my last post to you about 10 minutes ago so I won't go over it again.

Now, if God wants us and commands us to be obedient...
Doesn't this mean THAT IT'S OUR FREE WILL to obey or not?

Why command us to do something that HE is fully IN CHARGE OF?

And we agreed days and days ago that SALVATION AND FAITH are gifts from God...
could we stop speaking about that?

I should start some threads but I have very little time...
Click to expand...
This is more carnal philosophy, not bible.
 
wondering said:
I hear John Calvin being discussed.
I see you posting the LCF.
That's Calvinistic in case you didn't know.

And 2 Peter3:9 how many times would you like me to answer that?
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Calvin did not write the 1689.
I went over 2 pet 3:9....verse by verse....i did not see you respond lineby line, where is that. You ignored it.
 
wondering said:
Who are these elect?

They are either the nation of Israel or those that adhere to God's guidance and rules on HOW to become saved.
They are elect and saved because they want to be.
God does not want forced love out of us.
He wants us to love Him, truly, just like humans want their spouse to love them truly,
and not because they put a pill in their coffee every morning.

And what could we possibly do to SAVE OURSELVES, except WANT to be saved?
Jesus was on that cross, not me or any other human.
It's tiring to hear all the time that we want to be our own savior.
I mean, get that vocabulary out of your mind already.
Click to expand...
The elect are those individuals whom God had chosen before the foundation of the world to be saved based upon nothing but His divine prerogative to do so. He chooses irrespective of race, ethnic background or anything else - only that it pleased Him to choose whom He chose.
They are saved only because God chose them for such - and for no other reason.
No one can love God correctly until saved, because until then, they won't know truth, God, or His gospel.
In fact, until then, their god is Satan and his gospel, their gospel - it being a gospel of works.
So, should I ignore the truth of something because you tell me to - especially if you and others can't see it or don't understand it? Really? Tiring or not, it is an undebatable truth: if something is required by anyone in order to be saved regardless of what that may be, and they do it, then beyond argument, they've saved themselves (of course that would be impossible for anyone to do). And likewise, should they not do it, then they wouldn't become saved, then by so doing it, they've saved themselves and therefore have become their own saviour regardless of Christ, haven't they? How could that point even be in debate?
 
rogerg said:
The elect are those individuals whom God had chosen before the foundation of the world to be saved based upon nothing but His divine prerogative to do so. He chooses irrespective of race, ethnic background or anything else - only that it pleased Him to choose whom He chose.
They are saved only because God chose them for such - and for no other reason.
No one can love God correctly until saved, because until then, they won't know truth, God, or His gospel.
In fact, until then, their god is Satan and his gospel, their gospel - it being a gospel of works.
So, should I ignore the truth of something because you tell me to - especially if you and others can't see it or don't understand it? Really? Tiring or not, it is an undebatable truth: if something is required by anyone in order to be saved regardless of what that may be, and they do it, then beyond argument, they've saved themselves (of course that would be impossible for anyone to do). And likewise, should they not do it, then they wouldn't become saved, then by so doing it, they've saved themselves and therefore have become their own saviour regardless of Christ, haven't they? How could that point even be in debate?
Click to expand...
Faith in Christ and his Gospel is the entrance into eternal life, "For by grace are you saved THROUGH FAITH and not that of yourselves: it is the gift of God" Ephesians 2:8. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.
 
wondering said:
WE is the rest of Christianity except for the reformed.
WE know what we need to know about God.
But the reformed seem to know a different God than the rest of Christiandom.



The bible teaches us that God is loving, merciful and just.
This is not the God that John Calvin knew and/or taught.



We can know enough about Him to know how to be saved.
No extra-biblical information required.

God desires all men to be saved.
So He let us know, definitely, HOW to become saved.
Jesus did not come to earth only to be our atonement...
but also to teach us how to become a member of the Kingdom of God.


We cannot know everything about God.
But we do know what He wants us to know....
and that would be that He exists and how to be in fellowship with Him.
God desires us to love Him in return.
A free love, not a love He causes us to have for Him
Click to expand...

The unregenerate are incapable of loving God.

God put His love in His people.

1 John 4:19 We love, because He first loved us.
 
wondering said:
Who are these elect?

They are either the nation of Israel or those that adhere to God's guidance and rules on HOW to become saved.
They are elect and saved because they want to be.
God does not want forced love out of us.
He wants us to love Him, truly, just like humans want their spouse to love them truly,
and not because they put a pill in their coffee every morning.

And what could we possibly do to SAVE OURSELVES, except WANT to be saved?
Jesus was on that cross, not me or any other human.
It's tiring to hear all the time that we want to be our own savior.
I mean, get that vocabulary out of your mind already.

But
Wait.

AFTER we become saved, God does want from us.
He wants our obedience.
I put some of this in my last post to you about 10 minutes ago so I won't go over it again.

Now, if God wants us and commands us to be obedient...
Doesn't this mean THAT IT'S OUR FREE WILL to obey or not?

Why command us to do something that HE is fully IN CHARGE OF?

And we agreed days and days ago that SALVATION AND FAITH are gifts from God...
could we stop speaking about that?

I should start some threads but I have very little time...
Click to expand...
Really bad theology
 
wondering said:
Who said we should lie?
You must watch that guy, Comfort, on YouTube.
He uses your method.
But that won't really work in real life.

What we do is speak about a loving God.
Tell people why we believe.
Tell them what God did for us.
Be a good WITNESS.

Tell someone they're going to hell?
Would that have won YOU over?
Click to expand...
Are you God that you would know who's heart He will open to His gospel?

Here is the problem with so-called Christians, let preach a watered down gospel so we do not offend or hurt some ones feelings.
 
Iconoclast said:
Calvin did not write the 1689.
I went over 2 pet 3:9....verse by verse....i did not see you respond lineby line, where is that. You ignored it.
Click to expand...
so you do know about Calvin.
And I didn't say calvin wrote it,
I said it's calvinistic.

And 2 peter....
Could you give me the post no?
 
Robert Pate said:
Faith in Christ and his Gospel is the entrance into eternal life, "For by grace are you saved THROUGH FAITH and not that of yourselves: it is the gift of God" Ephesians 2:8. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.
Click to expand...
We've been through this before. Anyway, do you see "the gift of God' part in Eph 2:8? By "gift"
we know that it cannot be by anything that we might do, because, well, because if it were, it wouldn't be a gift, would it? So, the "through faith", cannot mean that it is by our faith. Whose faith brought salvation to us? Christ's faith alone did, in that He was perfectly faithful and obedient to what God had assigned to Him to accomplish, and the Father accepted it. Only with/by that prerequisite being satisfied by Christ, could salvation be a gift.
As for the "hearing", it is by NOT human hearing, it is only by spiritual hearing. This is what Jesus said regarding hearing, and it pertains to everyone not saved (to have hearing, one must first be born again).
In any event, our faith is not what saves. True faith comes to us from becoming saved, it is not from us to salvation. True faith comes as a gift from the fruit of the Spirit.

[Jhn 8:43, 47 KJV]
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. ...
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.
 
electedbyhim said:
Are you God that you would know who's heart He will open to His gospel?

Here is the problem with so-called Christians, let preach a watered down gospel so we do not offend or hurt some ones feelings.
Click to expand...
No E
Hurt their feelings
Then they'll listen to you more.
 
rogerg said:
The elect are those individuals whom God had chosen before the foundation of the world to be saved based upon nothing but His divine prerogative to do so. He chooses irrespective of race, ethnic background or anything else - only that it pleased Him to choose whom He chose.
They are saved only because God chose them for such - and for no other reason.
No one can love God correctly until saved, because until then, they won't know truth, God, or His gospel.
In fact, until then, their god is Satan and his gospel, their gospel - it being a gospel of works.
So, should I ignore the truth of something because you tell me to - especially if you and others can't see it or don't understand it? Really? Tiring or not, it is an undebatable truth: if something is required by anyone in order to be saved regardless of what that may be, and they do it, then beyond argument, they've saved themselves (of course that would be impossible for anyone to do). And likewise, should they not do it, then they wouldn't become saved, then by so doing it, they've saved themselves and therefore have become their own saviour regardless of Christ, haven't they? How could that point even be in debate?
Click to expand...
Maybe you're the one who doesn't understand?
Go talk to Jesus.
He's the one who spoke all those words in my post.
 
Wondering has her hands full.

I will give her credit for standing her ground.

I will continue to pray that the Lord enlightens you with His word.

The difference between what we believe is simple I believe God is completely sovereign. You believe that man is sovereign with God.

You ever here a Pastor preach that is Reformed? You will never hear him preach on mans will and what man needs. The Pastor will always preach the Sovereignty of God and bringing Him glory by doin His will.
 
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