Grace is given and not merely offered !

[glorydaz]

LOL What you're witnessing makes me realize we need to send workers into the harvest or they won't hear the message of salvation.

I am witnessing to you too, and you reject the Truth, because the gospel witness is also death unto death..

What? Are you for real? I reject you and your witness...I do not reject the Truth which is found only in the Word of God. Now if you, by chance, happened to stumble on the truth in your ramblings, then I'd accept it as truth, but from my experience with reading your posts, that's pretty rare.

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory:

What? Are you for real?

Dead serious..

I reject you and your witness

And in so doing you reject God and His Truth..but thats ok, for it is Gods will for you to do so..

 

[mutzrein]

i understand we are to live it out, but do you tell someone who doesnt know Jesus.Why you dont watch this tv show are dont lust after another women or whatever.

Why? So they could clean up their lives and be righteous. I am not made righteous by what I do (or don't do). Nor can they be.

they could say that you are mormon or a jw as mormon and jw often mirror what we do. If one doesnt know the subtle difference and you would be taking the Glory from God as he has changed and saved you so that others may see His workmanship.

How often do I get asked about bi and lbgt simply because I testify what the Lord did and how that he can do for them.
No different with my jw background as I see others dealing with them I ask.
Why preach then or have church then if the bible doesnt need a voice. God chooses us to be his feet and hands and mouth, which we fail often to do.

I'm not sure I understand the significance of your JW / Mormon comment. There are many people who don't know Jesus who believe that you are a Christian BECAUSE of what you do. I believe we (Christians) are who we are and do the things we do because we know Christ.

 

[glorydaz]

glory:

What? Are you for real?

Dead serious..

[quote:9cwtq6zr]I reject you and your witness

And in so doing you reject God and His Truth..but thats ok, for it is Gods will for you to do so..[/quote:9cwtq6zr]

For you to claim by rejecting you and your witness I'm rejecting the Truth of God's Word is putting yourself in the place of God. I suggest you consider the pride of life scripture...here, allow me.

Or is this "world" a real world or only an "elect" world? :nag

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[jasoncran]

I'm not sure I understand the significance of your JW / Mormon comment. There are many people who don't know Jesus who believe that you are a Christian BECAUSE of what you do. I believe we (Christians) are who we are and do the things we do because we know Christ

mormons and jw at a quick glance without words arent much different in words or actions then we are in our morals. Both stand against the homosexual lifestyle,abortion, are pro marriage and are observant of the ten commandments. Thats the point if you dont tell them when they ask or when the time to speak what's the difference then a jw and mormon and you.

 

[izzy]

We are called to preach the Gospel to all people. That is a very clear command in Scripture. We obey this command because we love God. If we hoard it and become proud because we are the "elect" who have found truth, we are actually demonstrating that we do not really know God or the Truth. In that case, we would be more like the Gnostics, who believed they were recipients of a mystery that normal people could not fathom and that they were, as a result, special.

That said, I do believe that God must work in the heart before a person can ever be saved. Ephesians 2:1 states, "And you He made alive who were dead in trespasses and sins." A dead person is helpless. All who seek will find because the very act of seeking is indication that God has touched their heart. On the other hand, God uses Christians as instruments in His saving work. “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent?" (Romans 10:13-15, NIV).

I'm still working on the whole predestination/election thing, but I am certain that God is the initiator and the finisher of our faith who guarantees our salvation, but that there is a response required from the recipient in order for there to be true faith. One of the best quotes on the subject I have found is by A.W Tozer. You can find it in my signature.

 

[mutzrein]

I'm not sure I understand the significance of your JW / Mormon comment. There are many people who don't know Jesus who believe that you are a Christian BECAUSE of what you do. I believe we (Christians) a re who we are and do the things we do because we know Christ.

mormons and jw at a quick glance without words arent much different in words or actions then we are in our morals. Both stand against the homosexual lifestyle,abortion, are pro marriage and are observant of the ten commandments. Thats the point if you dont tell them when they ask or when the time to speak what's the difference then a jw and mormon and you.

If a person cannot tell the difference between my words or actions and those of any other religion then only the Spirit can reveal the difference.

 

[jasoncran]

so then mutzrein, no offense, why are you then defending the calvanistic views?If we are told by the spirit then why even talk amongst ourselves?

 

[savedbygrace57]

izzy:

We are called to preach the Gospel to all people.

Actually the disciples who followed christ during His earthly ministry was called to preach the gospel He had taught them.. Matt 28:

16Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory:

For you to claim by rejecting you and your witness I'm rejecting the Truth of God's Word

Thats right..

is putting yourself in the place of God

No its not, I am a servant of God bearing the testimony of Jesus christ..

rev 12:17

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And you my friend reject that testimony..

 

[jasoncran]

savedbygrace just because you say that you have the truth doesnt mean that you do have it.
I could say and nearly justify slavery in like manner. There are NO verses in the NT that actually condemn the act of slavery. Only the books of Philemon and Ephesians say that were are treat slave/serveants as fellow believers, but it doesnt say that they had to free them. Though that was likely.

So i will be pushing slavery from no one as well its in there and I have the truth.

 

[Rick W]

Please refrain from judgment calls concerning a disagreement. Be respectful of other members. This is a Christian board so please disagree in a civil manner. If all has been said then there's no reason to push further into the realm of confrontation.

 

[savedbygrace57]

jason says:

savedbygrace just because you say that you have the truth doesnt mean that you do have it.

Well I do have it regardless if you believe it or not..

 

[Rick W]

Ok fellas. I see no point in this anyway.
I'm trying to think of someone who said they weren't quite sure about the truth when posting in this particular forum but nobody comes to mind at the moment.

 

[mondar]

great another one on calvisnism. why witness then if that is totally true after they will be saved any way. The lost are already heating the fires of hell then.

LOL, Jason, do you think it possible that made a caricature of Calvinists?

 

[jasoncran]

some not all come across that way. If one selected to be saved not matter what about those that arent elected. Are they created for what to die and off to hell?If i offended i didnt mean that.

 

[mondar]

some not all come across that way. If one selected to be saved not matter what about those that arent elected. Are they created for what to die and off to hell?If i offended i didnt mean that.

No offense taken.

I am not sure I understand the rest of your post. I think you are asking about those who are damned for eternity. Yet even in arminianism... God has the foreknowledge to look into the future and see who will have faith. But if God looked into the future and saw no faith, why did he create them? Do you really think Arminianism is answering the same question any different then Calvinism?

 

[jasoncran]

he knows who will follow him or not,yet did call judas isachariot and called him friend even though he know that the feeling wasnt mutual. Why because love is vulnarable at times.

The Lord allowed sin to continue after eve and adam yet could have wipe those two out and restarted. But he didnt why, freewill to serve him mustn't be overriden. Some will choose to go to hell, but that wasnt God intent to have people have no choice in the matter, unlike some calivinstic persons say that some will have no choice to come to christ and others wont have that choice.

God allows free will, otherwise why the verses that say see that you dont refuse him.

 

[mondar]

But he didnt why, freewill to serve him mustn't be overriden.

Free will, the bane of Calvinists. Yet, can you define free will? John MacArther says we have the free will to choose any path of sin we want. I like that! Is that free will?

Some will choose to go to hell, but that wasnt God intent to have people have no choice in the matter

God has no choice? Does he even foreknow what choice will be made? If he does, would it not be better to not create them then to punish them for all eternity, or to later destroy them in some other way?

unlike some calivinstic persons say that some will have no choice to come to christ and others wont have that choice.

jasoncran, I know there are Calvinists that do not always represent themselves correctly. I do not know where you got this idea that Calvinists do not believe in "choice." I am a Calvinist and I have no problem with the concept of man making a choice. However, I would say that those who make the correct choice do so because they are drawn by God. Regeneration is the cause of this correct choice to have faith. Regeneration does not mean we do not make a choice either for good or evil, but rather that God inclines the heart to make a choice of faith.

So then, both believers and unbelievers have choice. Unbelievers love their rebellion, and when offered choice, choose that which they love. On the other hand, when God works upon the heart and regenerates a person, that person will "hear" the word, and make a good choice. My point here is that the statement that Calvinists do not believe in an offer of the Gospel, or the concept of "choice" is not actually true. We do choose, but God is sovereign even over that choice.

God allows free will, otherwise why the verses that say see that you dont refuse him.

I suspect you are speaking of the warning passages in Hebrews, or maybe Matthew 23. Certainly there are many passages that make the call to salvation, offer men choices. Then there are passages that speak of the nature of the natural unregenerate man as only evil, rebellious, and one who hates the Gospel and God. Will not a theology that focuses on one side to the exclusion of the other be unbalanced? The nature of man is rebellious and evil and we do not choose good unless God intervenes and regenerates. Yet we do have choice and we choose that which we love.

What think ye?

 

[jasoncran]

It meant to say that God wanted man to have the choice in yes or no, but that his intent was to save all. He knows that some will refuse. Look in the epistles of peter where it says that it says that God is longsuffering that all may come to him and be saved.