Grace is given and not merely offered !

[savedbygrace57]

jason:

but that his intent was to save all.

All the elect..

 

[jasoncran]

no,all mean all, not just the 'elect'. He knows our choice, yes, but the invation is open to all.

It like this if the feds gave money to all the persons of the u.s and You refuse that then its on you. They meant to give you money and You refused.

I ask you then, why tell anyone bout jesus then if God already predistined somebody like Orion to eternal damnation? God doesnt need us to witness,but use us to bring those in that will listen and use that Word has gave us a means to rightly judge those that refused. In your case of doctrine, then why would he need us as he already knows who will come and can do it himself. Since he hasnt chosen Orion for salvation then why bother.

note to Orion i'm using your questions and your self as an example. This isnt my implying that you are already doomed to hell. That is not my place and the calling of salvation is open to you.

 

[glorydaz]

glory:

For you to claim by rejecting you and your witness I'm rejecting the Truth of God's Word

Thats right..

[quote:2xs3ugoo]is putting yourself in the place of God

No its not, I am a servant of God bearing the testimony of Jesus christ..

rev 12:17

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And you my friend reject that testimony..[/quote:2xs3ugoo]

LOL...I see you're the judge and jury all rolled into one.
It's no wonder people are turned off by all these "Christians" running to and fro in their saintly garb.

FYI...there is a difference between the tesimony of Jesus Christ and the testimony of SBG.
In fact...there's a huge difference. There is only one God, and you aren't the One.

 

[glorydaz]

no,all mean all, not just the 'elect'. He knows our choice, yes, but the invation is open to all.

It like this if the feds gave money to all the persons of the u.s and You refuse that then its on you. They meant to give you money and You refused.

I ask you then, why tell anyone bout jesus then if God already predistined somebody like Orion to eternal damnation? God doesnt need us to witness,but use us to bring those in that will listen and use that Word has gave us a means to rightly judge those that refused. In your case of doctrine, then why would he need us as he already knows who will come and can do it himself. Since he hasnt chosen Orion for salvation then why bother.

note to Orion i'm using your questions and your self as an example. This isnt my implying that you are already doomed to hell. That is not my place and the calling of salvation is open to you.

Yes, all means ALL. All men are drawn,

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Jesus died not for our sins only...but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

All men everywhere are commanded to repent.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

God has always given man the option to choose evil or good....life or death.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Man has free will...he can choose.

For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

We see choices being made all throughout Scripture.

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

The Gospel is preached so man will hear...there is power in the gospel message, which is why we (not just the Apostles) are called to preach it.

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Some claim God is a respecter of persons...that is a lie. God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and calls on them to "TURN YE FROM YOUR EVIL WAYS."

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory:

LOL...I see you're the judge and jury all rolled into one.

I have made a observation that you and others dont accept Gods truth..

FYI...there is a difference between the tesimony of Jesus Christ and the testimony of SBG.

No its not, His Truth is His Truth regardless of who says it..and you reject it wether it comes from me or His own Mouth..

 

[glorydaz]

glory:

LOL...I see you're the judge and jury all rolled into one.

I have made a observation that you and others dont accept Gods truth..

[quote:jchxkgr0]FYI...there is a difference between the tesimony of Jesus Christ and the testimony of SBG.

No its not, His Truth is His Truth regardless of who says it..and you reject it wether it comes from me or His own Mouth..[/quote:jchxkgr0]

Stop accusing me of rejecting the Truth.
You wouldn't know the truth if it smacked you in the nose.

All men means ALL MEN.
The whole world means the WHOLE WORLD.

It's a simple truth, but an important one that should not be changed to promote some false teaching.

 

[mutzrein]

so then mutzrein, no offense, why are you then defending the calvanistic views?If we are told by the spirit then why even talk amongst ourselves?

I didn't know I was defending a calvanistic view. What's that? I am defending what I believe scripture tells us, that truth is revealed and confirmed within the heart of man by the Spirit of God. I believe that those who hear the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, whose hearts have been prepared as 'good soil', will produce fruit.

 

[jasoncran]

Do you think that those hearts need to hear the word? Does God routinely speak to the lost by himself and not us all the time. No, He uses us to be the living witness with words and in deed.

 

[mondar]

It meant to say that God wanted man to have the choice in yes or no, but that his intent was to save all. He knows that some will refuse. Look in the epistles of peter where it says that it says that God is longsuffering that all may come to him and be saved.

Jason, you are referring to 2 Peter 3:9. Peter says that God is patient toward "you." The word "you" in that passage refers to Peters elect readers. IMO it is a very poor verse to use to try to establish your point. I would suggest we look at the context, but I fear you would just jump to another though or context. Have you noticed your not really even addressing my original comments? Your jump around all over the place. I believe my original point was that you are not properly representing Calvinism. I think you can comment and I will withdraw here.

 

[mutzrein]

Do you think that those hearts need to hear the word? Does God routinely speak to the lost by himself and not us all the time. No, He uses us to be the living witness with words and in deed.

Yes I agree that God uses us to be living witnesses in word and deed.

However, quoting what many deem to be the 'word of God' in order that belief be invoked is not what I am talking about.

 

[jasoncran]

i will dig on what exactly calvanism preaches and then counter that.

 

[mutzrein]

i will dig on what exactly calvanism preaches and then counter that.

What are you trying to prove?

 

[jasoncran]

nothing if i'm going to say that its wrong then i ought to at least know what calvanism is. Then I can counter with the other pov.

You live in NZ, that would be like saying to me that I want to understand your distate for goverment healthcare, but first rail agianst us for not wanting without looking at what our congress proposes.

That's where I'm coming from.

 

[mutzrein]

nothing if i'm going to say that its wrong then i ought to at least know what calvanism is. Then I can counter with the other pov.

You live in NZ, that would be like saying to me that I want to understand your distate for goverment healthcare, but first rail agianst us for not wanting without looking at what our congress proposes.

That's where I'm coming from.

What has Calvinism got to do with anything though? Did I say I was a Calvinist?

 

[jasoncran]

so then mutzrein, no offense, why are you then defending the calvanistic views?If we are told by the spirit then why even talk amongst ourselves?

I didn't know I was defending a calvanistic view. What's that? I am defending what I believe scripture tells us, that truth is revealed and confirmed within the heart of man by the Spirit of God. I believe that those who hear the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, whose hearts have been prepared as 'good soil', will produce fruit.

lol, mondar,not mutzrein, why did i do that. sorry that wasnt directed at you. Mondar is the one i was speaking to. You dont come across as a calvinist. Now i'm cornfused. :crazy

 

[mutzrein]

Seems to me that if I said that I agreed with health care reform you would automtically label me as a democrat.

 

[jasoncran]

You the elect readers in Peter can be all that read and recieved the epistle of peter that are believers, but we are know that audience. 2 peter 3:9 address both the believer and the lost who will hear and read it. As any is well any person should not perish.
I'm not a calvinist, never was.

talk about confusion.

Mondar please address what i attempted to say, if you are confused ask me to restate.

 

[jasoncran]

not to get off topic: the republicans do want to reform it as well, not same way the democrats do.

I work for a local municipality , i see the wierd logic goverment has and I dont want it in my healthcare.
think made by and run by the lowest bidder, then that bidder will jack up the costs and the government will pay that. The contractor will keep the quality low or even lower and charge even more. This always happens more often than not when government jobs are outsourced.


I'm a republican and want reform, but not the way the dems do.
I didnt mean to offend you,mutzrein, if i did.

two feet in the mouth today, great one jason

 

[mutzrein]

not to get off topic: the republicans do want to reform it as well, not same way the democrats do.

I work for a local municipality , i see the wierd logic goverment has and I dont want it in my healthcare.
think made by and run by the lowest bidder, then that bidder will jack up the costs and the government will pay that. The contractor will keep the quality low or even lower and charge even more. This always happens more often than not when government jobs are outsourced.


I'm a republican and want reform, but not the way the dems do.
I didnt mean to offend you,mutzrein, if i did.

two feet in the mouth today, great one jason

No probs & no offense taken

Thanks

 

[glorydaz]

You the elect readers in Peter can be all that read and recieved the epistle of peter that are believers, but we are know that audience. 2 peter 3:9 address both the believer and the lost who will hear and read it. As any is well any person should not perish.
I'm not a calvinist, never was.

talk about confusion.

Mondar please address what i attempted to say, if you are confused ask me to restate.

You're right, Jason, the longsuffering of God is not just toward the elect.
It is so that all men will be led to repentance.

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?