Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Grailhunter's Classroom

Hello I am Grailhunter, so says the sign on…LOL I will be conducting a lesson thread here that involves general information as well as addressing the false beliefs that have crept up in Christianity.

So I have to deal with false beliefs first before I can expect anyone to learn the truths of Christianity.


The first false belief I covered was the word Trinity. It is a pretty long essay and you can find it at….
https://christianforums.net/threads/how-to-defend-the-trinity.87711/page-43

How can God talk to God was broken down by this Jesus who is the Christ for the benefit of the spiritually blind collective of His day as well.
Same principle.

Unchecked Copy Box
Luk 20:41
And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
Unchecked Copy Box
Luk 20:42
And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Unchecked Copy Box
Luk 20:44
David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?
 
How can God talk to God was broken down by this Jesus who is the Christ for the benefit of the spiritually blind collective of His day as well.
Same principle.

Unchecked Copy Box
Luk 20:41
And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
Unchecked Copy Box
Luk 20:42
And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Unchecked Copy Box
Luk 20:44
David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?
And you think this explains anything?
I am sorry you think you are spiritually blind.
Do you want to use both hands and try to explain it again?
I am all ears....or all eyes LOL
 
Why don't you just answer the question as you said you would ?

Unchecked Copy Box

Luk 20:44
David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?
Why don't you just answer the question as you said you would ?

Unchecked Copy Box

Luk 20:44
David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?
Ohhh I did not know you were posing that as a question.
We are all sons of God......small "s"
The term "son of God" is used in the Hebrew Bible as another way to refer to humans who have a special relationship with God. In Exodus, the nation of Israel is called God's firstborn son. Solomon is also called "son of God". Angels, just and pious men, and the kings of Israel are all called "sons of God."
 
Ohhh I did not know you were posing that as a question.
We are all sons of God......small "s"
The term "son of God" is used in the Hebrew Bible as another way to refer to humans who have a special relationship with God. In Exodus, the nation of Israel is called God's firstborn son. Solomon is also called "son of God". Angels, just and pious men, and the kings of Israel are all called "sons of God."
Being a "son of God" does not make David's son his "LORD"
Jesus is not asking how a son who has already been born is a "son of God".
Jesus is asking how a son who is not yet born can pre-exist as Lord in a conversation with the Lord ?

Unchecked Copy Box

Luk 20:42
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand
Unchecked Copy Box
Luk 20:44
David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?
 
Being a "son of God" does not make David's son his "LORD"
Jesus is not asking how a son who has already been born is a "son of God".
Jesus is asking how a son who is not yet born can pre-exist as Lord in a conversation with the Lord ?

Unchecked Copy Box

Luk 20:42
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand
Unchecked Copy Box
Luk 20:44
David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?

Well I would say that Christ was talking over their heads because he was not going to say to the Jews that He was the Son of God. Because it would be sacrilegious ....This was one of the reasons that the High Priest tore his clothes when Yeshua was before him. But still it would just confuse them because the Jews were not looking for a Messiah God, they were looking for Human Warlord King Messiah that would deliver them from their oppressors establish his eternal Kingdom on earth and place them in power and the Mosaic Law would be the Law of the world forever.

Looking at history during the various revolts the Jews were looking at the military leaders of the revolts as possible Messiahs.

Anyway to answer....and I have already pointed this out in post 40....although Yeshua was not David's son....He was a descendant of David through His mother and He was/is a God so as such was Lord to David.
 
Anyway to answer....and I have already pointed this out in post 40....although Yeshua was not David's son....He was a descendant of David through His mother and He was/is a God so as such was Lord to David.

So how prior to being born did he pre-exist as Lord in a conversation with the Lord?

Luk 20:42
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand
 
Anyway to answer....and I have already pointed this out in post 40....although Yeshua was not David's son....He was a descendant of David through His mother and He was/is a God so as such was Lord to David.
Are your students asking you questions, did they not get the point you already told them, did they need to be told by you that Jesus Christ descends from David. ( according to the flesh. Romans 1:3.)

I wonder how that shows the wisdom you are revealing to all, through what they are told quite simply in the scriptures already accepted in the whole world. ( that Christ comes from David)



It is a little more than what you confess that Yeshua was a God, it is when Christ is risen up then Jesus is BOTH Lord AND Messiah to David and to all, all can SEE that told below in the scriptures. ( which you say are good, but show you accept nothing I shared so far, completely.)


The relevant scriptures are right here, but who has need for that in the threads designed for debate.



Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
 
The point for all, is that they would be saved if they believed that Christ was risen the third day according to the scriptures, and that Gods wisdom ( the preaching of the cross which is foolisnesss to those who are NOT SAVED) answers how Jesus had to die and rise again to fulfil the scriptures, of David seeing the Lord speaking to HIs Lord. ( then the Father and the Son are known to be ONE.)
 
Its also funny how grailhunters classroom, shows they have need to be taught again the first principles of the oracles of God, with a little milk because strong meat is a bit too much right now. ( the scriptures they say are good, good but a little hard to digest)


Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
 
Yeshua is a God and Miriam was His mother....sooo mother of a God or mother of our God….No matter how you say it some can find offense with it. But Mother of God? Miriam was not Yahweh’s mother….she conceived His child. By the contemporary terms of the culture, she could be called the consort of Yahweh.

The bigger question….Christ could have just appeared on a mountain top, so why was it important for a God to be born of a woman? In this case, Yeshua was to be of the blood line of David….even so it could not be through Joseph so it had to be through His mother. Depending on how you look at it…Miriam was the mother of our God and or the bloodline of David that produced a God.

The broader thought takes the Trinity to a quad and the reason for a quad. And this is a thought….a speculative quesion….when Yeshua ascended to His Father….did He bring His human side with Him to the Godhead? If so what affect did that have? The precise-ness of Christian understanding can only go to the point of the facts available….(Beliefs, Truths, Facts….which is another topic) Speculation is fine…. It is a good thing as long as you define it as such. Proposing unanswered questions is fine because it is good that people understand that some questions will have to wait until we get to Heaven to know.

Then again on the topic of the Virgin Mary. The Virgin Mary is a phrase that does not occur in the scriptures and there no reason to assume she remained a virgin after concieving Yeshua or after she delivered Yeshua or that she did not have children with Joesph. Of course she was a virgin before she conceived.

This whole keeping her a virgin thing was about the developing belief that sex and women were dirty, nasty, and sinful. So Yeshua could only touch her womb….no sex and no genitals involved. So ultimately they had Yeshua being “beamed” in to her womb and then “beamed” out of her womb and she remained a virgin. No scriptural reason to believe any of that.
Isa 7:14 virgin before conception
During pregnancy and in giving birth
The virgin birth
Lk 1:34 no sex
Thanks
Mother God implies the mother of christ who is God not the mother of the divine nature.
 
The point for all, is that they would be saved if they believed that Christ was risen the third day according to the scriptures, and that Gods wisdom ( the preaching of the cross which is foolisnesss to those who are NOT SAVED) answers how Jesus had to die and rise again to fulfil the scriptures, of David seeing the Lord speaking to HIs Lord. ( then the Father and the Son are known to be ONE.)
You are drinking skim milk from a baby bottle my friend
The "Glory Of God" is God's alone, and God says He will share His Glory with no one.
Thus my Lord Jesus Christ the Son who has no beginning and no end has the Glory of God co-equally with God the Father before the world began.

Jhn 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


Standing by for "Strong's" interpretation ?
 
Original Sin Versus Real Sins.

Again the rule applies…If a theological word or phrase is not in the scriptures….that is a red flag and the magnifying glass should come out and these words and phrases should undergo strict scrutiny. Because it is usually someone trying to override the scriptures with a false belief.

The Bible definitely shows that human nature is flawed, not because all of us are bad people but because without the guidance of our heavenly Father we do not know what is right. And then even after we know what is right we will still mess up. But babies are not born with sin on their souls nor do they go to Hell.

The author of the doctrine of Original Sin was St Augustine.
St Augustine, who largely devised the doctrine of Original Sin, thought that original sin was transmitted from generation to generation through sexual intercourse.

To understand the origins of Original Sin you have to do a study on St. Augistine and the easiest way to that is to read his own writings, they are still in print. Confessions (c. 400) and The City of God (c. 413–426). Augustine shaped the practice of biblical exegesis and helped lay the foundation for much of medieval and modern Christian thought. .... This amounted to a tragedy, the single worst thing to happen to Christianity since the medieval Catholic Church. And it was more than his words or beliefs, it was his spirit, the spirit of hatefulness misogyny and degradation.

His own writings will show you that he was a sexual deviant and completely out of control. An egotistical sexual deviant that could not control himself. But he concluded that it was not his fault, that he was afflicted with the desire to be a sexual deviant from birth. That everyone had this affliction and its origin was the sin of Adam and Eve. That women were the carriers of this moral disease and the dirty and nasty act of sex with women transmitted this moral disease to all of mankind.

Why did he come to this conclusion? It all amounted to the conflict within him. It you look at the documentaries of sexual deviants, rapists, and child molesters you will see the conflict that goes on in their minds. They do not want to be that way and they hate it and even loath themselves because they cannot control it. To the point that they will say that their bodies move on their own….and they say that they both hate it and love it. Testimonies from twisted minds.

Either way, this was where he was at….could not control himself, both loving and hating it at the same time. He was a man that loved the respect from others but this deviancy kept dragging down. Sadness, self loathing, and a feeling of helplessness. So eventually he saw this desire as his enemy and learned to hate both women and sex and even saw all contact with women as the devil’s snare. And he thought it was not his fault, and he was not alone, everyone had it. And it all came from Adam and Eve…..mostly Eve the tempter of Adam.

In the end he pretty much locked himself away from women. So he came up with a doctrine where sin emerges from the female “genitalia” and wreaks havoc on the world. Sin created by sex and delivered by dirty, nasty, sinful vaginas to curse all mankind. The monsters that come from the crouch! cuckoo! cuckoo! cuckoo!

On the topic of sexual desire Augustine had this to say....“Who can control this when its appetite is aroused? No one! In the very movement of this appetite, then, it has no ‘mode’ that responds to the decisions of the will. But when those who delight in this pleasure are not moved to it at their own will, whether they confine themselves to lawful or transgress to a unlawful pleasures; but sometimes this lust importunes them in spite of themselves, and sometimes fails them when they desire to feel it, so that though lust rages in the mind, it stirs not in the body .....Written by St. Augustine

“This diabolical excitement of the genitals…” (As St. Augustine refers to the act of sex.) …is evidence of Adam’s original sin which is now transmitted “from the mother’s womb,” tainting all human beings with sin, and leaving them incapable of choosing good over evil, or determining their own destiny.” ....Written by St. Augustine

“We must conclude, that a husband is meant to rule over his wife as the spirit rules over the flesh. and “the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh.” ....Written by St. Augustine

Referring to the Hell that awaits women, Augustine in his famous Latin sermon ''Ad Fratres in Eremitate Sermo LXIX.'' He describes how Satan seized the damned female and commanded his fellow devils to “pierce her eyes with forks as she enjoyed looking at unclean things, pierce her mouth as she used them for blasphemy, pierce her heart, as she did not harbor piety, compassion, clemency, and forgiveness there, pierce her hands with the heavy fork forged in Hell since she reached with them at things unclean and did not use them to distribute alms and help her neighbors, use the fiery forks to pierce her legs that she used to dance and meet her lovers.' Then to the gates of Hell she is carried and then '"out steps a hideous, horrible dragon, always ready to devour sinners. The dragon inserts the female into his mouth, full of stench. After chewing and digesting its prey, the dragon vomits the female into a fiery lake, where millions of other sinners wait for their trial by our Lord." .....Written by St. Augustine

St. Augustine was a deeply twisted and troubled individual and that reasoning made its way into Christianity. Original Sin is all about Augustine's hatred and fear of woman. But he was not the only one some of the ECF’s thought if a man was in love with his wife he was committing adultery against God.

So the doctrine of Original Sin is false and a lie. There is a faction in Christianity that like to belittle Christians and get them to believe that they have no hope of being good and will succumb to evil.....Case in point….
as it is written, “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; Romans 3:10 How many times have you heard this scripture quoted? Well the words righteous and righteousness occurs over 400 times in the scriptures and most of time it is referring to the righteous or that our goal should be righteousness. So if they focus on this one negative scripture, what is their intent? To lead people astray.

The intent is to promote the belief that we cannot be righteous so there is no use trying. The inevitably of a sinful life is so certain that we can only rely on the perpetual forgiveness of Grace to be saved from Hell. Which in function gives the green light for sinning. No personal responsibility. Perpetual forgiveness. Ergo the belief that Grace is a license to sin.

This is where the OSAS and Universalism groups get their guidance and motivation from. Believing you can live a life of sin and still go to Heaven.

John Calvin and his followers followed this convoluted train of thought and reasoned that babies and children that die before they are saved go to Hell. The concept of the Robot Christian and Theatrical Reality comes from the Calvinists. That predestination is more than an ability of Yahweh but that He turns all of reality into a pre-orchestrated play. Where nothing we do….good or bad….is our decision but is under the control of Yahweh.
 
Last edited:
We do not sin on our own but it is predestined by Yahweh so people are damned before they are born. We do not choose to have faith in Yeshua, we are forced to have faith. We do not choose to worship the Lord, we are forced to. So how could any of this mean anything if we are forced? How can the Trinity appreciate love and worship if it is forced?

The truth is, as far as the future goes, Yahweh can predestine the future and Yahweh has clairvoyance into the future. But overall free-will is the rule.

Do not let anyone tell you that through Christ you cannot be good and do good. The belief that we are helpless to sin is a self fulfilling prophecy that serves Satan. Sure from time to time we are going to sin and make mistakes but through Grace and our membership in the family of the Trinity we can confess our sins to Christ and He will forgive us. But Christ expects us to learn from our mistakes and not ask forgiveness for the same sins over and over again. This is where lifestyle sins are the most damning.

Yahweh gave us a heads up on this from the very beginning….If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it Genesis 4:7 Lifestyle sins allows sin to overcome us. Things like homosexuality, drug use, and sexual promiscuity etc.

Can we get forgiveness for these sins? You betcha! If you stop, but don’t count on playing Christ for a fool. Judgment is up to Yeshua and in the end He will know what your intent was. Be good and do good is your best bet. ….work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12 Yes YOU have something to do with your salvation.

Why do the scriptures give us all the warnings about sinning? Well for one they are harmful, they can harm you and others and they can lead you to Hell. But the warnings are also to prevent you from making the same mistakes that people have been making since the beginning of time. Ever hear an old man say he wished he knew in his youth what he knows now? The scriptures will help you do that and real sins are listed in the scriptures.

The Jewish leaders liked to add to the burden of the Law, well it is like Christ said…. Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. Matthew 23:13

Well to some degree Christians have done the same thing….when you make a man-made sin you have effectively made a Law. And Christianity has manufactured so many man-made sins that it turns a Christian’s life into a minefield of fake sins and real sins so that they are likely to step on a real sin trying to avoid a fake sin. Go to the New Testament to know what real sins are and read and heed. When you do that do not adlib….what is written is static.

Rejecting fake sins can be shocking because we have been programmed by both religious and social teachings. And removing that minefield can be nerve racking and shocking. I will give you an example and I will catch heat for it but welcome to my world. Rocking the boat….I stand with good company because Christ and the Apostles definitely rocked the boat.

So lets say there is a couple that live in the country and they are in love and have been living together in a monogamous relationship for two years but they have not had a wedding ceremony. They decide to have a pork steak barbecue in the backyard next to the pool. They are smoking and drinking beer and watching baseball. They are dressed in swim suits….she is in a bikini and him regular swimming trunks. And Kenny Login’s Danger Zone plays on the radio. So they dance to that and after dinner they play around in the pool and end up making love in the pool.

So how much sin occurred here? Absolutely none! Why? Here ya go….
Well there is no biblical requirement for a wedding.

There is no issue with pork because they are not Jewish.

The word tobacco does not occur in the Bible and far as the temple thing, Christ and the Apostle Peter made it clear that it is not what you put in your mouth that corrupts you, it is what comes out of your mouth.

Drinking was actually part of the biblical era culture for the Jew and Christians and is part of the Bread and Wine Ritual. Not to mention the parables that Christ told of vineyard and wine and the Christian symbolisms that grew from the grape vines and wine.

Where you get in trouble with alcohol is how frequently you drink and how drunk you get. Its not a fine line that you are in danger of crossing. Keep in mind that it was part of the culture and most drank everyday. Those house churches of early Christianity (no church buildings in early Christianity) Those house churches that held services and dinners, you can bet wine was served at those dinners just as Christ’s mother thought it was important enough for Christ to perform a miracle to get wine for those at the reception. Wine was part of their culture whether they drank it straight or mixed with water.

There is no biblical moratorium on sports and dancing.

Making love in the pool….private pools out in the country are fine. There no Mosaic Law or biblical teaching that regulates the sexual activities between couples. That includes which position or orifice. God does not act as a sexual referee between couples Old or New Testament.

So there is no sin here….but then if they have not accepted Christ as their Savior and went through the process of repentance…water baptism…and participated in the Bread and Wine Ritual….they will go to Hell. Good people in Hell, that is another essay.

So if they show up at your church welcome them with open arms and fellowship with them and let them see how to worship the Lord. Don’t shove the process down their throat but just casual conversations about it. Let them see those going up front to be saved and receive blessings and healings. Take them on a tour of the Church and show them the baptismal. In time they will witness baptisms and the Bread and Wine Ritual. Invite them to church activities and of course weddings. Give them time to take it all in and eventually the preacher can let them know that he would love to perform a wedding for them.

The Johnny Appleseed of Truth
Be good and do good.
 
Last edited:
It reminds me of this below, and who that is not in an unstable mind, would hear anything other than Gods warnings for the end, now.


2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.


Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
 
Back
Top