Bible Study Help, please! So confused…

[for_his_glory]

So surely EVERYONE must twist the words to fit their own theology because EVERYONE has preconceived ideas of how it should be. Who actually has the perfect, exact truth then?

If God is sovereign, then he knew what Satan was to become. If he already knows the choices that are going to be made, is this really free will? He created them to make these choices…

That’s the point- it’s obviously not simple and never will be. Not to those who want more understanding. And these 5000 religions would say the same about Christianity and claim they know the truth and it’s plain to see.

I never said everyone understands with a carnal mind, but as we are taught by others we also have to Spiritually discern what they are teaching in order to know truth from error, 1John 4:1-6. If the scriptures they give do not line up with what they are teaching then don't believe them. Never take a persons word for what they teach unless you take the scriptures they give and go read and study the full context of what has already been written.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Let me ask you a question. You say you are a Christian, so what makes you different then all those other religions in the world that comes against Christianity calling it a false religion?

 

[Adelaide]

Let me ask you a question. You say you are a Christian, so what makes you different then all those other religions in the world that comes against Christianity calling it a false religion?

Simply that I’m not calling it a false religion. I just have questions. I’m a curious person.

 

[for_his_glory]

So in the beginning God creates man with the choice to fail, knowing that’s the choice man will make.

God made man in His image and that would be the image of His love and that we should be holy and blameness before Him in love.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

It wasn't freewill that cause any of us to fall short of His glory, but that of being disobedient to God's commands as Adam and Eve were when they ate the forbidden fruit after God telling them not to do so.

 

[for_his_glory]

Simply that I’m not calling it a false religion. I just have questions. I’m a curious person.

But, how do you know it is not a false religion? Has God revealed this to you, or do you just accept it without question? All religions claim they are the true religion so how did you prove to yourself Christianity is not a false religion?

 

[Adelaide]

But, how do you know it is not a false religion? Has God revealed this to you, or do you just accept it without question? All religions claim they are the true religion so how did you prove to yourself Christianity is not a false religion?

Oh, I see what you’re asking. No, God has revealed nothing to me. I’m not claiming anything a false religion or a true religion. I’m questioning all religions. I’m questioning everything. I’m simply seeking answers.

 

[Adelaide]

It wasn't freewill that cause any of us to fall short of His glory, but that of being disobedient to God's commands as Adam and Eve were when they ate the forbidden fruit after God telling them not to do so.

So it wasn’t that he gave them the choice to sin, it was that they chose to sin…

Does anyone else see this as circular reasoning?

 

[hawkman]

So it wasn’t that he gave them the choice to sin, it was that they chose to sin…

Does anyone else see this as circular reasoning?

I have found a very good article at this link that talks about what you seek . And it talks about Adam and Eve, look for this heading ,C. GOD HAS GIVEN MAN FREE WILL. . Please read and give us a report . Read ALL of when you have time .
Does God Know Everything Before it Happens?

 

[jerry63935]

So it wasn’t that he gave them the choice to sin, it was that they chose to sin…

Does anyone else see this as circular reasoning?

i do feel they Chose why he allowed the tree there dont know

this is from a commentary i read along the way.
The tree of life… the tree of the knowledge of good and evil: These two trees were among all the other trees God created and put in the Garden of Eden.

i. The tree of life was to grant (or to sustain) eternal life (Genesis 3:22). God still has a tree of life available to His people (Revelation 2:7), which is in heaven (Revelation 22:2).

ii. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was the “temptation” tree. Eating the fruit of this tree would give Adam an experiential knowledge of good and evil. Or, it is possible that it is called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil not so man would know good and evil, but so God could test good and evil in man. all this is just a person thought
a circling reason ? maybe yes maybe no facts are God made man adam put him in Charge he failed himself and his wife and failed God testing i think so not sure we will ever know

 

[for_his_glory]

So it wasn’t that he gave them the choice to sin, it was that they chose to sin…

Does anyone else see this as circular reasoning?

Can you explain what you mean by circular reasoning?

 

[journeyman]

I read one post where the poster said he didn't believe in fiery torment that never ends. I didn't respond to that post, but I don't believe in unending torture either.
What's the topic of conversation now?

 

[Iconoclast]

No. And that’s my point.

You wanted to show your kids the danger. You wanted them to understand. God didn’t show the same courtesy or thoughtfulness to his children. He just said “DON’T” and expected them to obey thoughtlessly.

If they’ve only received goodness from their father, how could they possibly CONCEIVE of anything else without some kind of explanation?

So you suggest God is less than perfect?
You seek to blame God for mans sin?

 

[for_his_glory]

I have found a very good article at this link that talks about what you seek . And it talks about Adam and Eve, look for this heading ,C. GOD HAS GIVEN MAN FREE WILL. . Please read and give us a report . Read ALL of when you have time .
Does God Know Everything Before it Happens?

Thank you for sharing that article. I read through it and have to say I agree with everything he has said.

Adelaide I think it is a must that you, and actually everyone, take time to read this as it is going to answer many questions you have as it even answered some that I had, but never asked. I definitely bookmarked it.

 

[Iconoclast]

How is it free will if God knew what was going to happen? That sounds like predestination.

free will does not exist.
We have self will, but it is bound by our nature.

 

[Iconoclast]

If I made a perfect paradise for my children I’d choose to have not to have stoves that could burn them. Or anything that could harm them…

You again are looking to find fault with a perfect
God......do you not see this is pride and profane?
Are you suggesting if you yourself were God, you would have improved on what the true and living God has done?

Think again on that.

 

[for_his_glory]

I read one post where the poster said he didn't believe in fiery torment that never ends. I didn't respond to that post, but I don't believe in unending torture either.
What's the topic of conversation now?

Good and evil, disobedience, freewill, hell and predestination all rolled into one from the OP how it has branched out from the first question Adelaide had in her OP. I think the topic is all over the place so pick one, pick them all and just go for it I guess,

 

[Iconoclast]

The article by morrison is a horrible caricature...it gets it more wrong than right.

 

[for_his_glory]

You again are looking to find fault with a perfect
God......do you not see this is pride and profane?
Are you suggesting if you yourself were God, you would have improved on what the true and living God has done?

Think again on that.

I would not call her questioning things and how she see things as pride and profane. We have to remember from Adelaide OP she is a very young Christian without much knowledge yet and this is why she is questioning things looking for answers as she reads through the Bible. Some of her statements might seem off the wall, but yet she is seeking for truth.

 

[for_his_glory]

The article by morrison is a horrible caricature...it gets it more wrong than right.

I found it to be very truthful as in who God is. Maybe you would like to start a new thread on this and tag hawkman into for a deeper discussion as this needs to be another topic.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

God never said believers destroyed Jerusalem.

What??? God ensured that the Gentiles came and trampled on Jerusalem and Judea, for that matter, destroying it punishing those who pieces Him.

I mean Jesus is God and before he was born on earth, Jesus said,

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them Gen.6:13

God tells us believers are like sheep for slaughter. As long as people know that what was done to the Shepherd was sinful, I'm good with it.

The point of the gospel is that all sin is wronging God, like he was wronged at the cross, so I disagree with you.

Why then does Jesus tell us to forgive those who wronged us? Why doesn’t he agree with you that doing wrong to others doesn’t matter, just wronging God?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I’m not asking the questions I am as a result of a life of ease.
Quite the opposite- in my 41 years I’ve experienced far more than your average person. Suffering is my bedside companion, trust me.

I don’t want the answers after I die. That’s unacceptable. I want them now.

You are correct and Jesus actually promises answers in this life. However, We have to fulfill the conditions. Justification might be free but understanding the truth is expensive.

I know you’re not fond of my posts. They’re very direct. But I feel with you as I longed for understanding the truth myself. And I also admire your desire. Few have that burning desire here but are more likely resigned to being in the dark, as it were.

One of the prices that must be paid is the humbling of the pride when it comes surrendering our false understanding. This makes sense. If a man wants truth, he must surrender what he falsely thinks. There is no learning if we kling to what we prefer to think.

For you, you cannot maintain the position of your excellent father being right because you love him and having truth. If the truth goes against your father’s position, which will you choose? (Just for you to consider)

Now if you want “there, there, we feel for you in the dark regarding truth as we are” with the appropriate sympathy, you’ll find plenty here.

Not to be forgotten scripture for those who require it sans thinking,
“If you keep my teaching, you will KNOW the truth.”