Holiness - are we made holy through repentance and confession

[Pegasus]

Works don't save us. Agreed.
But didn't Jesus say that if we love Him we'll obey His commandments?
John 14:15

What are His commandments?

Indeed faith seriously implies faithfulness.

When I looked my wife in the eyes saying my vows to her, I truly expected her to keep me to those vows. By keeping those vows I showed her the love I proclaimed on our wedding day.

We sometimes burn the pot roast as the Bride of Christ. However, shall we never commit adultery with the devil.

 

[gr8grace3]

I like questions that are answered in stages.
For me the first question is, do I consider myself Holy?

Biblically speaking......that is not the question. The question is.......Does He consider us holy?

Heb 10~~8First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[Kidron]

Once a born again person understands that the only reason that God accepted you as His, is the same reason He accepts you now, is only because He has caused His very righteousness to become you.
You as a Christian were once dead in your sin..... But because the Blood of Redemption has been applied to you, you are now alive in and to righteousness.
Salvation, being "saved", is simply God supplying you with His very righteousness so that He can accept you as righteous.
Because God is HOLY< you have to equal His Holiness for Him to be able to have a relationship with you.
You have to become as Holy as God Himself.
As this is what you have become once God has given you "the gift of Righteousness".
This is what it means to be "born again".
And this has nothing to do with water, works, effort, church membership, or enduring.
Once you see this, once you have this enlightenment and revelation = you have then come to the knowledge of the Grace of God.
Until you do, you are still some type of legalist who is working and trying to be accepted by God, and not understanding that He wont accept you or your works.
He will only accept what He has offered to make you acceptable., and that happened on the CROSS.
God only accepts your faith in Christ, = which activates His Eternal Grace, which through the redemption of the Blood of Jesus, atones for your sin = and makes you acceptable to God as a family member.
Nothing you can do > of yourself< can cause this or keep this once it is applied to you.
Salvation is BY GRACE, and not by your effort or your deeds or anything you think you have to DO.
God accepts you by the ATONEMENT, and this is GRACE.
"For by GRACE you are saved, and this is NOT OF YOURSELF, but rather it is the GIFT OF GOD"...
The Gift of God, is God's Grace., and this is God giving you His very Righteousness as YOURS, based on what Jesus accomplished for you, on the CROSS.
This is redemption.
This is the Atonement.
This is what it means to be "born again".

 

[GodsGrace]

Indeed faith seriously implies faithfulness.

When I looked my wife in the eyes saying my vows to her, I truly expected her to keep me to those vows. By keeping those vows I showed her the love I proclaimed on our wedding day.

We sometimes burn the pot roast as the Bride of Christ. However, shall we never commit adultery with the devil.

You certainly are not repeating your original statement.

Here's your post:

Yes it matters how we behave.

However before the Grace of God saves us no works that we did saved us. Why assume that they do afterwards?

God is Holy and expects the new creation bought in the Holy Blood of Christ to walk with Christ.

Your next question may be "what if we don't."

The answer is...don't.

The sentence above I've highlighted is the conflict in what you say.
You said you made a vow to your wife.
If you're to keep that vow, it means you will obey it for the rest of your life with her.

So if the vow got you MARRIED, your obeying that vow will KEEP you married.

I hear recently that works do not keep us saved, when in fact, they do.
Jesus did nothing but speak of how we are to behave and what we are to do.

The Two Great Commandments cover all the others, they do not replace them.

If you want to stay married, you must obey your vows.
If you want to stay saved, you must obey Jesus.

I think you'll agree.

So it's OK to burn the pot roast every now and then, we're only human, but it's not right to say that works, or our obeying God, will not keep us saved.
(I do, of course, agree that no amount of works without faith in Jesus will save us).

Also, I'd like to make the following comment:

This is a vow:

vow
(vou)
n.
An earnest promise to perform a specified act or behave in a certain manner, especially a solemn promise to live and act in accordance with the rules of a religious order: take the vows of a nun.
v. vowed, vow·ing, vows
v.tr.
1. To promise solemnly; pledge. See Synonyms at promise.
2. To make a pledge or threat to undertake: vowing revenge on their persecutors.
v.intr.
To make a vow; promise.

This is an Oath:

oath
(oʊθ)

n., pl. oaths (ōtz, ōths).
1. a solemn appeal to a deity or to some revered person or thing to witness one's determination to speak the truth or keep a promise.
2. any statement, promise, or affirmation accepted as the equivalent of such an appeal.
3. the form of words in which an oath is made.
4. an irreverent or blasphemous use of the name of God or anything sacred.
5. any profane expression; curse; swearword.
Idioms:
1. take an oath, to swear solemnly; vow.
2. under oath, solemnly bound by the obligations of an oath.

source: thefreedictionary.com

When you got married, if you got married in a Christian church, you didn't take a vow or make a promise, you took an oath.

God was present there with you. You made the promise or vow to HIM, not to your wife, thus making it an oath to God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Once a born again person understands that the only reason that God accepted you as His, is the same reason He accepts you now, is only because He has caused His very righteousness to become you.
You as a Christian were once dead in your sin..... But because the Blood of Redemption has been applied to you, you are now alive in and to righteousness.
Salvation, being "saved", is simply God supplying you with His very righteousness so that He can accept you as righteous.
Because God is HOLY< you have to equal His Holiness for Him to be able to have a relationship with you.
You have to become as Holy as God Himself.
As this is what you have become once God has given you "the gift of Righteousness".
This is what it means to be "born again".
And this has nothing to do with water, works, effort, church membership, or enduring.
Once you see this, once you have this enlightenment and revelation = you have then come to the knowledge of the Grace of God.
Until you do, you are still some type of legalist who is working and trying to be accepted by God, and not understanding that He wont accept you or your works.
He will only accept what He has offered to make you acceptable., and that happened on the CROSS.
God only accepts your faith in Christ, = which activates His Eternal Grace, which through the redemption of the Blood of Jesus, atones for your sin = and makes you acceptable to God as a family member.
Nothing you can do > of yourself< can cause this or keep this once it is applied to you.
Salvation is BY GRACE, and not by your effort or your deeds or anything you think you have to DO.
God accepts you by the ATONEMENT, and this is GRACE.
"For by GRACE you are saved, and this is NOT OF YOURSELF, but rather it is the GIFT OF GOD"...
The Gift of God, is God's Grace., and this is God giving you His very Righteousness as YOURS, based on what Jesus accomplished for you, on the CROSS.
This is redemption.
This is the Atonement.
This is what it means to be "born again".

Well Kidron..
Round and round we go...

How about Ephesians 2:10?
What's that all about?

I'm beginning to wonder what Christianity has come to.
It seems like a really washed down version to me...
of what Christianity used to be, I mean.

This idea of Jesus "saving" us is a new idea.
What is the old idea?

This idea of living through Him is new also.
The Holy Spirit was sent to help us, if Jesus lives through us, and we sin, what does this mean? Does it mean that Jesus is not sufficient to make us avoid sin?

Really He did not go to the cross to save us from sin, but to save us from satan.
So that we might not be slaves to satan and sin anymore.
We're still sinning, so does this mean Jesus failed?
No. Because He died to release us from the grip of satan, not to release us from all sin.

I've been doing a lot of thinking lately. Christianity is changing, and I don't think for the better.

 

[PeterJens]

Once you see this, once you have this enlightenment and revelation = you have then come to the knowledge of the Grace of God.
Until you do, you are still some type of legalist who is working and trying to be accepted by God, and not understanding that He wont accept you or your works.

The above is very much the removed view of salvation. Salvation without its reality worked out
in the believers life. It is like a saying the work of Christ is fantastic, who He is, what His heart is,
but the believer is lost, not able to be one with Him or walk in His ways.

But the whole of Christs message is this
I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
John 17:20-21

We are Christ on earth. This is not a bunch of failed sinners kind of trying to be ok, but a redeemed
people who are Holy, pure, righteous, living a life of love and freedom.

So many see the frailty of our humanity, and then say this defines Gods work in us.
But faith says, God, our creator, has taken us and made us something wonderful, not just in His eyes
but in reality. It is hard not to see how this works out is something eternal, that will never end, that
talks through history of those faithfully living Gods will, loving those they could and walking in the Spirit.

I have heard believers condemn others without knowing them, claiming they have defined the limits
of Gods work on this earth, as if their failure defines Gods ways and purposes. They are happy to deny
Christs words at the drop of a hat, as if eternal words of the King can be ignored and disregarded, while
claiming they know the King and His will. All I know is my King astounds me, and has always proven true.
It has always been my perspective has been wrong, and He brings His truth to light. Amen.

 

[GodsGrace]

The above is very much the removed view of salvation. Salvation without its reality worked out
in the believers life. It is like a saying the work of Christ is fantastic, who He is, what His heart is,
but the believer is lost, not able to be one with Him or walk in His ways.

But the whole of Christs message is this
I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
John 17:20-21

We are Christ on earth. This is not a bunch of failed sinners kind of trying to be ok, but a redeemed
people who are Holy, pure, righteous, living a life of love and freedom.

So many see the frailty of our humanity, and then say this defines Gods work in us.
But faith says, God, our creator, has taken us and made us something wonderful, not just in His eyes
but in reality. It is hard not to see how this works out is something eternal, that will never end, that
talks through history of those faithfully living Gods will, loving those they could and walking in the Spirit.

I have heard believers condemn others without knowing them, claiming they have defined the limits
of Gods work on this earth, as if their failure defines Gods ways and purposes. They are happy to deny
Christs words at the drop of a hat, as if eternal words of the King can be ignored and disregarded, while
claiming they know the King and His will. All I know is my King astounds me, and has always proven true.
It has always been my perspective has been wrong, and He brings His truth to light. Amen.

Just a few comments...:

I do believe we are frail and fragile. I believe this is why Jesus said we would need the help of the Holy Spirit. He told the Apostles to wait in Jerusalem and they would receive power to preach and teach and witness. So this power that we receive is also to help us with Jesus' primary mission:
To free us from the enslavement to the enemy
and to make us members of the Kingdom of God here on earth.

So though we are frail, I do believe God helps us and we could be thankful for this and do our best to live for Him and not live a defeated life.

But taking this to saying that Jesus does it all for us is wrong. Jesus did HIS part, and now it's up to us to do our part.

I don't know if we are holy, in that sense of the word. We are holy in the sense that we are set apart for God's work (which could be anything) but it's a road we're on...the road to sanctification. A combined effort between us and God.
We do, He helps. He does not do it all.

This cannot be theologically correct as it would mean that when we sin, it is really Jesus making (or allowing) us to sin.

I think we need to get back to a traditional Christianity that holds each one of us personally responsible for our actions and behavior. I think the time for saying that we're to do nothing because Jesus already has done it all should be over and ended before it gets any worse than how it is now.

Jesus came to set up a Kingdom..not to make us think we need no works.
All He did was speak about works and the Kingdom.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Just a few comments...:

I do believe we are frail and fragile. I believe this is why Jesus said we would need the help of the Holy Spirit. He told the Apostles to wait in Jerusalem and they would receive power to preach and teach and witness. So this power that we receive is also to help us with Jesus' primary mission:
To free us from the enslavement to the enemy
and to make us members of the Kingdom of God here on earth.

So though we are frail, I do believe God helps us and we could be thankful for this and do our best to live for Him and not live a defeated life.

But taking this to saying that Jesus does it all for us is wrong. Jesus did HIS part, and now it's up to us to do our part.

I don't know if we are holy, in that sense of the word. We are holy in the sense that we are set apart for God's work (which could be anything) but it's a road we're on...the road to sanctification. A combined effort between us and God.
We do, He helps. He does not do it all.

This cannot be theologically correct as it would mean that when we sin, it is really Jesus making (or allowing) us to sin.

I think we need to get back to a traditional Christianity that holds each one of us personally responsible for our actions and behavior. I think the time for saying that we're to do nothing because Jesus already has done it all should be over and ended before it gets any worse than how it is now.

Jesus came to set up a Kingdom..not to make us think we need no works.
All He did was speak about works and the Kingdom.

The only thing you have not covered, IMO, is a good but short article covering the Life Application and passages addressing the Issue and this will fill that need:

http://biblereasons.com/being-nothing-without-god/

 

[PeterJens]

We do, He helps. He does not do it all.
This cannot be theologically correct as it would mean that when we sin, it is really Jesus making (or allowing) us to sin.

I do see there is a tension here. How can we be a Holy temple of the Holy Spirit and still stumble in sin.
Equally Paul takes the holiness of the believer married to an unbeliever to sanctify ones children.
We tend to think of holiness and salvation in terms of what we do, rather than the heart relationship with
the Father. Our actions seem to be the fruit of our hearts, and the relationship we have, open or closed.

There are many illnesses that effect peoples behaviour, but if you strip away all this, what have you left?
Someone who loves the Father and will walk in His ways, or a disjointed disfunctional individual who does
not know up from down.

We also tend to think of things from moment to moment rather than the whole stream of actions and life,
which build us into who we are and how we interact.

So an alcoholic is addicted to alcohol, but equally can meet the Lord and desire to follow. Sometimes the
Lord will heal the dependency while for others they need to walk and overcome.

The Lord chooses His path and His way. We need to see how we are in His hands, and many things are
a mystery, because we do not see His intentions how to help teach and build us up.

The King is more a gardener, than a dictator, more a friend and supporter, a parent, than the one who does
everything and we are passive participants along for the ride.

It seems to me many are so deeply wounded and hurt they feel they just can give up and remain.
But they have ignored the simple instructions Christ laid down, and just to do the simple things, which all
can do. But I suspect many in truth do not have a desire to walk with Jesus but tell Him what will or will not
happen, while claiming they are leaving it all in Gods hands.

 

[GodsGrace]

The only thing you have not covered, IMO, is a good but short article covering the Life Application and passages addressing the Issue and this will fill that need:

http://biblereasons.com/being-nothing-without-god/

Hi Bill,
I read the link.

Yes. Jesus wants to set up a Kingdom here on earth so that those who are in it could live a type of life the way He invisioned. The way we can know what life He'd like us to lead is just by reading the words He spoke.

We could start with the Beatitudes. This is how our behavior should be.
The Two Great Commandments fill in a lot of gaps...
Love God
Love Ourselves
Love each other
Worship the Creator, Respect ourselves, Love everyone (even those we don't really llike - we could have love for humanity). I think I must have said this before.

The article listed some scripture and spoke about each one.
It's short and good, I hope everyone checks it out.

Here are my favorite passages:

Philippians 2:13
for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

I like this because it's how I understand God's working to be in us.
He works IN US, to make us understand Him, to make us better as humans, to make us as He would want us to be in attitude and actions.
Some will say that Jesus is IN US but it is HIM working. I see a difference in this, as if we were puppets and Jesus was pulling the strings. No. We still have the capability of deciding whether or not we want to obey.

John 15:4-5
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.”

For as long as we follow Jesus and remain in Him, we will bear good fruit.
HE is the VINE to which we are attached that gives us life. Jesus is the spark of life that makes us truly alive. To be free from the enemy is to be truly free.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

How many times do we feel like not doing something or other.
For any number of reasons.
Yes, if we remember that we're doing it for God, many times the strength comes to us. This is the help of the Holy Spirit. Yet, sometimes the strength does not come... we are only human after all and we shouldn't let this discourage us for next time.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’

I like this verse because some only like specific verses in the N.T., but every verse if for us - very few are only specifically for the Apostles. We need to read every word that Jesus said and try to follow it. He said His yoke is easy and His burden is light, His commandments are not grievous...1 John 5:3

So, yes, you make a good point as to the application of His words to life...
We should apply all of Jesus' words to our life.
And even though Jesus does not offer suggestions but commands, He does not command anything He Himself has not understood, which means that when we are unable,,,we will always be accepted and forgiven.

 

[PeterJens]

That last idea - having a desire to walk with Jesus with no boundaries or do we tell Him what will or will
not happen.

I remember when I was young the idea came strongly across to me if I gave my heart to the Lord I would
have to become a missionary in some distant country. It was strong enough to put me off doing such a thing.

It also struck me we often say things, I give all to Christ, while actually making it impossible for anything to
change. It is our compartmentalization where in one room we will claim something which in another room
we will completely deny, and not see the total contradiction. So we can sing "I love you Lord with everything
I am" and next moment go off and do something that denies we have any commitment to Him.

So Peter says he would die for Christ, and then a few hours later deny Him. Our vague awareness of this
does undermine so much of what we say, when we look at what we do. Maybe this is where we feel so
failed and incapable of having the confidence Christ has in us.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I like questions that are answered in stages.
For me the first question is, do I consider myself Holy?
When I read scripture it tells me a few things. We can enter the Holy of Holies.
We are the Holy temple of the Holy Spirit.
Our children are made Holy through the holiness in the believing parent.
Has Christ truly cleansed us and can we believe this? I think the answer is yes but it
is difficult to quantify.
I spent months pursuing this idea on one forum only to find many live in perpetual
self condemnation. Others claim the sin that seems to bind them, is too difficult to
overcome, and daily failures remind them it is impossible. Some sa ay it is a lie of
satan and taking away glory from Christ to say a believer can be holy. They often
only see Christs role in our failure and not the life of our walk.
So the first step takes faith, to believe the cross and Christs blood has redeemed us
and made us Holy. I think this is the first real step of our walk, when we see in us
what God has done. If we are part of the Kingdom of heaven on earth, we are Christs
body, His Holy precious witness, to the love that is eternal, here and now.
Many who have grown up in the church, know the language so well they live in the world and of the world, but speak biblical verses. No wonder the word is so hard to make sense.

Holiness I think is firstly to be filled with the Holy Spirit and be purified through repentance
and faith, confessing our sins and knowing our love of God and His will.
Living a holy life is letting the love and word God has placed in our hearts work its way out
by contemplating and dwelling on it daily, hourly, in all that we do.
It is easy to let our emotions turn us around, but we can through Christ focus them again
on good things, heavenly things. This is often our dilemma, how to deal with daily distractions
and loss of focus. At least this is where I am at the moment.

It is possible, in spite of what the world will ave us to believe, to live Holy Life, I do it every now. But I tell the truth, it requires Faith and the presence of the Holy Spirit. And then there is Our Personal Pride... I'm here, just short of 73 years and I have issue with that Pride, over and over. But I made the decision to get it done and with Christ in me, as long as I remember whose I am, i'm succeeding more and more often.

If I did not care for the souls of the Lost I would stay off the Internet and failure would not be associated with any of my attempts to Witness. but be of good cheer, brothers, God is still the God of New Beginnings, over and over and over. if we will ditch the False pride and admit we failed, pray a sincere and heart felt Pray of Repentance and mean it, we will dust off our knees and know He has thrown that sin away, as far as the West. he can no longer remember what that was nor when it was.

These things are difficult for the Lost to do, in fact, impossible, but is easy for the follower of God, they have the Holy Spirit

 

[GodsGrace]

I do see there is a tension here. How can we be a Holy temple of the Holy Spirit and still stumble in sin.
Equally Paul takes the holiness of the believer married to an unbeliever to sanctify ones children.
We tend to think of holiness and salvation in terms of what we do, rather than the heart relationship with
the Father. Our actions seem to be the fruit of our hearts, and the relationship we have, open or closed.

There are many illnesses that effect peoples behaviour, but if you strip away all this, what have you left?
Someone who loves the Father and will walk in His ways, or a disjointed disfunctional individual who does
not know up from down.

We also tend to think of things from moment to moment rather than the whole stream of actions and life,
which build us into who we are and how we interact.

So an alcoholic is addicted to alcohol, but equally can meet the Lord and desire to follow. Sometimes the
Lord will heal the dependency while for others they need to walk and overcome.

The Lord chooses His path and His way. We need to see how we are in His hands, and many things are
a mystery, because we do not see His intentions how to help teach and build us up.

The King is more a gardener, than a dictator, more a friend and supporter, a parent, than the one who does
everything and we are passive participants along for the ride.

It seems to me many are so deeply wounded and hurt they feel they just can give up and remain.
But they have ignored the simple instructions Christ laid down, and just to do the simple things, which all
can do. But I suspect many in truth do not have a desire to walk with Jesus but tell Him what will or will not
happen, while claiming they are leaving it all in Gods hands.

Hi PJ
I used to be Catholic. Do you know why Catholics go to confession?
In the early generations of Christians, they believed that Baptism (of adults) would wash away all sin till that point. Then, with the help of the Holy Spirit, the person would not sin anymore. This could be learned if you do a little study on confession and how it got started.

What was discovered is that people were still sinning. So, what to do about the sin that came AFTER baptism?

Confession changed a lot from the beginning to what the RCC has now, but it was the solution for the sins that came after. And since Jesus had given the authority to the Apostles in John 20, this is what eventually was adapted.

So how do we still stumble in sin? It's the Sin Nature we're born with. A leftover of Adam's sin of disobedience. We can't seem to get ourselves rid of it. Maybe it's programmed into the DNA. We can't understand everything.

But you're right in your assessment. We could walk with the Holy Spirit right next to us, and be happy to belong to God, or we could wabble all over the place, with our head down, call ourselves sinners, and let the enemy take over again.

I very much like what you said about the King being more like a gardener.
We are not "passive participants"!

Do you remember this:
"God is my co-pilot".

Someone wrote that this is wrong and should be...
"God is my pilot".

No. I believe you're right. God is our co-pilot.
We're driving, He's directing.

So, yes. Let's drive as well as we can, always headed toward God.

 

[ezra]

Holiness is Christ in us... Holiness is a continuous thing for us to be holy we must be connected to the true vine , we are branches and are to bear fruit more fruit and much fruit and our fruit is john 15. its not what we do but Christ does in us the hope of Glory , yes i do believe we have responsibility but it can not be self produced
we must allow the Holy spirit to flow through us .thus why being connected to the true vine is must . you see the true vine has roots connected to the true source of holiness .the roots pulls up the proper nutrients to supply the right stuff the vine needs and we the branches draw off the vine amen :amen

 

[ezra]

Hi PJ
I used to be Catholic. Do you know why Catholics go to confession?
In the early generations of Christians, they believed that Baptism (of adults) would wash away all sin till that point. Then, with the help of the Holy Spirit, the person would not sin anymore. This could be learned if you do a little study on confession and how it got started.

What was discovered is that people were still sinning. So, what to do about the sin that came AFTER baptism?

Confession changed a lot from the beginning to what the RCC has now, but it was the solution for the sins that came after. And since Jesus had given the authority to the Apostles in John 20, this is what eventually was adapted.

So how do we still stumble in sin? It's the Sin Nature we're born with. A leftover of Adam's sin of disobedience. We can't seem to get ourselves rid of it. Maybe it's programmed into the DNA. We can't understand everything.

But you're right in your assessment. We could walk with the Holy Spirit right next to us, and be happy to belong to God, or we could wabble all over the place, with our head down, call ourselves sinners, and let the enemy take over again.

I very much like what you said about the King being more like a gardener.
We are not "passive participants"!

Do you remember this:
"God is my co-pilot".

Someone wrote that this is wrong and should be...
"God is my pilot".

No. I believe you're right. God is our co-pilot.
We're driving, He's directing.

So, yes. Let's drive as well as we can, always headed toward God.

:amen

 

[for_his_glory]

Once a born again person understands that the only reason that God accepted you as His, is the same reason He accepts you now, is only because He has caused His very righteousness to become you.
You as a Christian were once dead in your sin..... But because the Blood of Redemption has been applied to you, you are now alive in and to righteousness.
Salvation, being "saved", is simply God supplying you with His very righteousness so that He can accept you as righteous.
Because God is HOLY< you have to equal His Holiness for Him to be able to have a relationship with you.
You have to become as Holy as God Himself.
As this is what you have become once God has given you "the gift of Righteousness".
This is what it means to be "born again".
And this has nothing to do with water, works, effort, church membership, or enduring.
Once you see this, once you have this enlightenment and revelation = you have then come to the knowledge of the Grace of God.
Until you do, you are still some type of legalist who is working and trying to be accepted by God, and not understanding that He wont accept you or your works.
He will only accept what He has offered to make you acceptable., and that happened on the CROSS.
God only accepts your faith in Christ, = which activates His Eternal Grace, which through the redemption of the Blood of Jesus, atones for your sin = and makes you acceptable to God as a family member.
Nothing you can do > of yourself< can cause this or keep this once it is applied to you.
Salvation is BY GRACE, and not by your effort or your deeds or anything you think you have to DO.
God accepts you by the ATONEMENT, and this is GRACE.
"For by GRACE you are saved, and this is NOT OF YOURSELF, but rather it is the GIFT OF GOD"...
The Gift of God, is God's Grace., and this is God giving you His very Righteousness as YOURS, based on what Jesus accomplished for you, on the CROSS.
This is redemption.
This is the Atonement.
This is what it means to be "born again".

We are made righteous by the righteousness of God that is by faith of Jesus Christ to all who will believe. This is through the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5, 6; Romans 10:9, 10; Romans 3:19-31; 2 Corinthians 5:21.

We have not yet received an immortal incorruptible body, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, so we are not perfect or equal to God's Holiness, but do strive to seek those things from above where Christ sits at the right hand of the Father. We simply now mortify the things of the flesh so that when Christ appears again we will appear with Him, Colossians Chapter 3

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi Bill,
I read the link.

Yes. Jesus wants to set up a Kingdom here on earth so that those who are in it could live a type of life the way He invisioned. The way we can know what life He'd like us to lead is just by reading the words He spoke.

We could start with the Beatitudes. This is how our behavior should be.
The Two Great Commandments fill in a lot of gaps...
Love God
Love Ourselves
Love each other
Worship the Creator, Respect ourselves, Love everyone (even those we don't really llike - we could have love for humanity). I think I must have said this before.

The article listed some scripture and spoke about each one.
It's short and good, I hope everyone checks it out.

Here are my favorite passages:

Philippians 2:13
for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

I like this because it's how I understand God's working to be in us.
He works IN US, to make us understand Him, to make us better as humans, to make us as He would want us to be in attitude and actions.
Some will say that Jesus is IN US but it is HIM working. I see a difference in this, as if we were puppets and Jesus was pulling the strings. No. We still have the capability of deciding whether or not we want to obey.

John 15:4-5
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.”

For as long as we follow Jesus and remain in Him, we will bear good fruit.
HE is the VINE to which we are attached that gives us life. Jesus is the spark of life that makes us truly alive. To be free from the enemy is to be truly free.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

How many times do we feel like not doing something or other.
For any number of reasons.
Yes, if we remember that we're doing it for God, many times the strength comes to us. This is the help of the Holy Spirit. Yet, sometimes the strength does not come... we are only human after all and we shouldn't let this discourage us for next time.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’

I like this verse because some only like specific verses in the N.T., but every verse if for us - very few are only specifically for the Apostles. We need to read every word that Jesus said and try to follow it. He said His yoke is easy and His burden is light, His commandments are not grievous...1 John 5:3

So, yes, you make a good point as to the application of His words to life...
We should apply all of Jesus' words to our life.
And even though Jesus does not offer suggestions but commands, He does not command anything He Himself has not understood, which means that when we are unable,,,we will always be accepted and forgiven.

No like button so you get

 

[Jim Parker]

A believer said to me that they did not believe they could stand before God clean and holy, washed by the blood, they had always to have Christ standing there instead.
I understand this because often our struggles and failures overwhelm, but it struck me we were telling God what we are, not listening to Him minister to our hearts. Some believers in effect live in unbelief as if Christ has not cleansed them, they are still sinners needing to be saved, rather than walking in fellowship with the Lord. It appears being Holy is what Paul preached to the disciples who came to Christ, so we equally need to accept this to honour the Holy Spirit and His work in our hearts.
This has become my conviction, and my walk of faith.
What do you think?

I think there is a lot of confusion as to what Jesus accomplished by his death and resurrection; from what we are saved; and how we enter the kingdom of heaven. (And that being saved and entering the kingdom of heaven are NOT the same thing.)
From what are we saved?
Though He had no sin, what Christ did was to suffer the consequence of sin which is death. (Ro 6:23)
And by his resurrection He destroyed the power of death and corruption over the bodies on mankind. All will rise immortal and incorruptible. (1Cor 15:52ff)
So what Christ saved all of mankind from was death and corruption; all of mankind will rise from the dead.

What does it mean to enter the kingdom of God? (of heaven)
It means to be "in Christ"; to be a member of the "body of Christ"; to be "one flesh with Christ"; for Christ to be "in you." It means to be intimately united to God in Christ.
Rom 12:5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.
1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.
2Co 5:17 ... if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Eph 5:30-32 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Col 1:25-27 ... I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Jhn 17:20-23a I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[fn] believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me;

What does the word "holy" mean?
1. To be set aside for God's use as the articles used in the tabernacle and temple or and the Levitical priesthood.
2. I means to live in a manner that reflects the glory of God by living in obedience to His commands.

How do we become holy?
We are told that WE must pursue holiness.
Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
WE are told to pursue holiness.
Holiness is not automatically conferred because we say we believe; we must live according to that belief.
2Co 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Here WE are told to be perfecting holiness.
Eph 4:21-24 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Here WE are told to "put on the new man"
1Pe 1:13-16 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy."
WE are told to be holy in all our conduct.

We are also told by Jesus that our eternal condition will be based on OUR works.
John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

So, yes, everyone who has ever lived or who ever will live, whether a believer or not, has been saved from permanent, physical death and will be raised from the grave immortal and incorruptible.

But the eternal estate of each individual will be based on whether they were obedient to God or not.
(Mat 25:31-46; Jhn 3:36; 5:28-29; 8:51; Ro 6:2-10; 8:12-14; 2Cor 5:10; 1 Pet 1:17; 1 John 2:17; Rev 20:12-13; 22:12-14)


my 2 kopecks

iakov the fool

 

[GodsGrace]

I think there is a lot of confusion as to what Jesus accomplished by his death and resurrection; from what we are saved; and how we enter the kingdom of heaven. (And that being saved and entering the kingdom of heaven are NOT the same thing.)
From what are we saved?
Though He had no sin, what Christ did was to suffer the consequence of sin which is death. (Ro 6:23)
And by his resurrection He destroyed the power of death and corruption over the bodies on mankind. All will rise immortal and incorruptible. (1Cor 15:52ff)
So what Christ saved all of mankind from was death and corruption; all of mankind will rise from the dead.

What does it mean to enter the kingdom of God? (of heaven)
It means to be "in Christ"; to be a member of the "body of Christ"; to be "one flesh with Christ"; for Christ to be "in you." It means to be intimately united to God in Christ.
Rom 12:5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.
1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.
2Co 5:17 ... if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Eph 5:30-32 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Col 1:25-27 ... I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Jhn 17:20-23a I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[fn] believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me;

What does the word "holy" mean?
1. To be set aside for God's use as the articles used in the tabernacle and temple or and the Levitical priesthood.
2. I means to live in a manner that reflects the glory of God by living in obedience to His commands.

How do we become holy?
We are told that WE must pursue holiness.
Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
WE are told to pursue holiness.
Holiness is not automatically conferred because we say we believe; we must live according to that belief.
2Co 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Here WE are told to be perfecting holiness.
Eph 4:21-24 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Here WE are told to "put on the new man"
1Pe 1:13-16 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy."
WE are told to be holy in all our conduct.

We are also told by Jesus that our eternal condition will be based on OUR works.
John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

So, yes, everyone who has ever lived or who ever will live, whether a believer or not, has been saved from permanent, physical death and will be raised from the grave immortal and incorruptible.

But the eternal estate of each individual will be based on whether they were obedient to God or not.
(Mat 25:31-46; Jhn 3:36; 5:28-29; 8:51; Ro 6:2-10; 8:12-14; 2Cor 5:10; 1 Pet 1:17; 1 John 2:17; Rev 20:12-13; 22:12-14)


my 2 kopecks

iakov the fool

Could I add that we are also saved from enslavement to sin and satan.
Jesus conquered death and He conquered satan.

The Apostels told Jesus that even the demons were subject to them in Jesus' name.
Luke 10:17

Jesus defeated satan in every way: Physical, Material, Spiritual
Mathew 4:1-11

Jesus exposes satan to us as a liar and murderer.
John 8:44

Since we now understand how satan works in person's lives and how we can have the light of Christ in us, satan looses His hold on us.

Jesus has also saved us from this.

 

[Jim Parker]

Could I add that we are also saved from enslavement to sin and satan.

OH yeah!

Since we now understand how Satan works in person's lives and how we can have the light of Christ in us, satan looses His hold on us.

That was the subject of my broadcast on Spiritual Warfare. (Posted in 2 parts in the Bible Study section.)

iakov the fool