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How can the trinity be one God?

StoveBolts said:
Hi OzSpen
Two posts up, you quote Genesis 1:3-5 and asks what is has to do with the Word. I believe it has much to do with the Word.
John 8:12
English Standard Version
Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

Looking back to Genisis, we see darkness is not created. In actuality, darkness is the absence of light. We can say much on this, but I dont want to stay too far from the OP.

When we fail to do what is good, what is right, we dont create darkness. Darkness is the absence of light, and God says the Light is good. We create what is good by what we do, and darkness is the result of not doing what is good.

John 3:19
English Standard Version
And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

When we look at Trinity, we have a place at the Table with God, that is to say we have a place with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...

SB,

From your post, I raise a few issues:
  1. You say 'darkness is not created'. To the contrary, 'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters' (Gen 1:1-2 NIV). So in creating the literal heavens and earth the text states that 'darkness was over the surface of the deep' - created in the beginning by God.
  2. If 'darkness is the absence of light' (Oxford dictionaries online 2018, Darkness is 'the partial or total absence of light' (s.v. darkness), then why did God state he 'separated the light from the darkness'? God saw them as 2 separate entities.
  3. We are here looking at literal light and darkness, in contrast with light from the sun and moon that was created on day 4.
  4. In the 2 verses you quoted from John, 'light' and 'darkness' are used as metaphors. In the first verse, John 8:12, Jesus interprets what his metaphor for 'light' means: 'I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life'. Jesus is the light, not in the sense that his person emanates physical light, but that the path to life is illumined and directed by Jesus.
  5. Hermeneutics (interpretation) is skewed when the literal is intertwined with the figurative.
Blessings,
Oz
 
MarkT said:
This is the 21st century and I am reading the RSV. I'm not translating the Bible.
Click to expand...

Exegesis and eisegesis have to do with interpreting the Bible - interpreting the RSV and any other translation.

If you wanted to bring it into the 21st century, shouldn't you read the NRSV?
 
MarkT said:
My answer is I don't know. I'm not a follower of Arius.

On the basis of my understanding of what Paul said.

The RSV has it, 11 For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men, 12 training us to renounce irreligion and worldly passions, and to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world, 13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior[a] Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds.

As you can see, Paul said, "for the grace of God has appeared" Who is he talking about here? I take it Paul is talking about Jesus Christ. Then later on he says, "the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ." Well, the glory of our great God and Saviour is Jesus Christ. So he is still talking about Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

Mark,

You don't have to be a follower of Arius to believe some of the doctrines of Arianism. What are those doctrines that are contrary to biblical teaching?

Titus 2:11, 13-14 confirms that the person who brings salvation for all men [people] is Jesus Christ. In context we are able to interpret who this is.

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Are the Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit one family?
Click to expand...

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

  • and these three are one. Family?
  • and these three are one. Spirit?
  • and these three are one. God?

Let Us make man in Our image

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Genesis 1:26-27


The Godhead, The Elohim, are one.



JLB
 
JLB said:
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7
  • and these three are one. Family?
  • and these three are one. Spirit?
  • and these three are one. God?
JLB
Click to expand...

That's not what 1 John 5:7-8 (ESV) states. It reads:
7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.​
 
OzSpen said:
That's not what 1 John 5:7-8 (ESV) states. It reads:
7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.​
Click to expand...

Yes and this is not what the NIV says. It reads:

For there are three that testify: 1 John 5:7 NIV
 
OzSpen said:
That's not what 1 John 5:7-8 (ESV) states. It reads:
7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.​
Click to expand...


For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John 5:7 KJV



JLB
 
JLB said:
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

  • and these three are one. Family?
  • and these three are one. Spirit?
  • and these three are one. God?
Click to expand...

Of course I added the word, Family, Spirit and God.


However, from reading the Bible, this is what I see.


Others may see it differently.


JLB
 
JLB said:
Of course I added the word, Family, Spirit and God.

However, from reading the Bible, this is what I see.

Others may see it differently.


JLB
Click to expand...

'This is what I see' does not provide meaning that comes FROM the text, but is your subjective interpretation.
 
OzSpen said:
Mark,

You don't have to be a follower of Arius to believe some of the doctrines of Arianism. What are those doctrines that are contrary to biblical teaching?

Titus 2:11, 13-14 confirms that the person who brings salvation for all men [people] is Jesus Christ. In context we are able to interpret who this is.

Oz
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ, the glory of our great God.
 
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OzSpen said:
'This is what I see' does not provide meaning that comes FROM the text, but is your subjective interpretation.
Click to expand...

Which text are you referring to?

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John 5:7 KJV


For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7




Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Genesis 1:26-27



How about this one:

31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32




JLB
 
JLB said:
Yes and this is not what the NIV says. It reads:

For there are three that testify: 1 John 5:7 NIV
Click to expand...

I quoted 1 John 5:7-8 (ESV). These same verses in the NIV read:

7 For there are three that testify: 8 the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.​

The [a] footnote in v. 8 in the NIV states:

1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the fourteenth century)[a]​

The NKJV, your preferred translation, makes a similar point:​
  1. 1 John 5:7 NU, M omit the words from in heaven (v. 7) through on earth (v. 8). Only 4 or 5 very late mss. contain these words in Greek.
So from the first century to the 14th century, it gave more time for additions by copyists to creep into the Greek MSS of the Textus Receptus on which the KJV of 1611 was based.

I'm dropping out of this topic.

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
So from the first century to the 14th century, it gave more time for additions by copyists to creep into the Greek MSS of the Textus Receptus on which the KJV of 1611 was based.
Click to expand...

Brother I quoted the King James.

Ok. So go with the KJV


For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John 5:7


JLB
 
JLB said:
God is our Family.

The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit are one Family.




JLB
Click to expand...
A most excellent conclusion.
Emphasis on verse 21

John 17

20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent meand have loved them even as you have loved me.
 
MarkT said:
Jesus Christ, the glory of our great God.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ is our great God and Savior.

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
2 Peter 1:1

He is our Lord God, who is coming with the saints.


Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:5



JLB
 
OzSpen said:
SB,

From your post, I raise a few issues:
  1. You say 'darkness is not created'. To the contrary, 'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters' (Gen 1:1-2 NIV). So in creating the literal heavens and earth the text states that 'darkness was over the surface of the deep' - created in the beginning by God.
  2. If 'darkness is the absence of light' (Oxford dictionaries online 2018, Darkness is 'the partial or total absence of light' (s.v. darkness), then why did God state he 'separated the light from the darkness'? God saw them as 2 separate entities.
  3. We are here looking at literal light and darkness, in contrast with light from the sun and moon that was created on day 4.
  4. In the 2 verses you quoted from John, 'light' and 'darkness' are used as metaphors. In the first verse, John 8:12, Jesus interprets what his metaphor for 'light' means: 'I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life'. Jesus is the light, not in the sense that his person emanates physical light, but that the path to life is illumined and directed by Jesus.
  5. Hermeneutics (interpretation) is skewed when the literal is intertwined with the figurative.
Blessings,
Oz
Click to expand...
Hi Oz,
Good questions and you and I share the same exegetical disciplines.
Instead of muddying the waters in this thread, I'll try to pull together by tomorrow for a new thread. I think it will be fun, and I think we can both learn and grow together.
 
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