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How can the trinity be one God?

LovethroughDove said:
The Holy Spirit is what connects them
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I don't know what you mean by that.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the three persons (hypostasis) of the Trinity.
You may be trying to be specific about something that is actually too mysterious for us to understand.
Like in the St. Patric cartoon, it's a mystery.
 
LovethroughDove said:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being the very nature God, did not consider equality with God
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?

I don’t know what version you are using but it’s not the NIV.


6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; Philippians 2:6 NIV



JLB
 
Jim Parker said:
The ECFs did struggle with it and were able to come to agreement on what the apostles taught.
SO, my point was, when people come up with their own private ideas, they're very commonly just rehashing old heresies that were dealt with over 1000 years ago when there was only one church.

So, yeah, where the doctrine is vague, don't split hairs.
But, where the doctrine is clear, don't try to refute it.
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This is what I like about you. We both know what happened in 1054 because they started splitting hairs on something that was supposed to unite us.
As your aware, most dont know history, so they dont even know they were taught heresy. We do, so it's important we dont go for their throat, and you dont, which I also appreciate about you.
As a restorationist, I pull heavily from the first century and the direct diciples of the Apostles better known as the Early Church Fathers.
 
LovethroughDove love,
The theology I ascribe to has the role of the Holy Spirit within Trinity prompting the Son into action through love.
In creation, we see the Spirit hovering over the waters, and God speaks.
We see something similar with the baptism of Jesus which begins His ministry.
Hope this makes since.
 
[Jesus Christ] Who, while being in form God, did not regard the being equal God thing-to-be-grasped, but emptied Himself, having taken form slave, having come in likeness humans. And having been found as man outward-appearance, ...​
Philippians 2:6-7 (literal)

A few things about Jesus Christ are literally clear from this passage:

1. He was in form God. “Form” = 44 morphḗ – properly, form (outward expression) that embodies essential (inner) substance so that the form is in complete harmony with the inner essence.

2. He is (presently) equal God. “Equal” = hypárxō – properly, already have (be in possession of); what exists, especially what pre-exists, i.e. is already under one's discretion (note the prefix hypo).

3. He came in human likeness. “Likeness” = 3667 /homoíōma ("likeness, particular similarity") is a comparison used to increase understanding. 3667 /homoíōma ("resemblance") does not require one element of a comparison to be derived from the other; indeed, it can be wholly separate from it. Rather, 3667 (homoíōma) refers to a basic analogy (resemblance), not an exact copy.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/philippians/2.htm

Appearing outwardly human (taken form slave) does not equal being inwardly essentially human. Which is why Paul says He emptied Himself by taking on human. Sounds counterintuitive at first glance, but isn’t contradictory.
 
Razeontherock said:
Scripture came from the Church. What you're expressing here is the opposite.

If you really process the significance of just this one point, it will be powerful!
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Lets be definite. "holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost". IIPet.1:21. Doctrine came only by them, not ''church fathers" so called or any other. Thats what I mean by my statement: "not necessarily".
 
Jim Parker said:
I don't know what you mean by that.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the three persons (hypostasis) of the Trinity.
You may be trying to be specific about something that is actually too mysterious for us to understand.
Like in the St. Patric cartoon, it's a mystery.
Click to expand...
I am trying to be specific. It's very clear and not mysterious to me, but it does defy how we think usually. Maybe I should get off the trinity thread, cause I guess the trinity is co-equal persons?
 
LovethroughDove said:
I quoted the part JLB singled out, but my bible translates it totally different. Or at least it is easier to understand
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I think both are pretty close to saying the same thing.


NKJV - who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

NIV - Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

YLT - who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not robbery to be equal to God,

KJV - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


Jesus considered Himself as equal to God.




JLB
 
JLB said:
I think both are pretty close to saying the same thing.


NKJV - who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

NIV - Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

YLT - who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not robbery to be equal to God,

KJV - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


Jesus considered Himself as equal to God.




JLB
Click to expand...
I have always read from the NIV and it makes it sound that even though he is the very nature of God, but did not consider himself equal to the Father.

The punctuation actually means a lot here. When they were translating, I actually think they messed up on this part

Many versions will say "who being the very nature God, did not consider equality with God"...........but then they don't do a period there (which I think should be there) And then it goes on to say "something to be grasped". Like Paul and Timothy were saying to us (grasp this revelation)
 
LovethroughDove said:
I have always read from the NIV and it makes it sound that even though he is the very nature of God, but did not consider himself equal to the Father.

The punctuation actually means a lot here. When they were translating, I actually think they messed up on this part

Many versions will say "who being the very nature God, did not consider equality with God"...........but then they don't do a period there (which I think should be there) And then it goes on to say "something to be grasped". Like Paul and Timothy were saying to us (grasp this revelation)
Click to expand...

Here is what Paul instructed Timothy.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


He said it to Titus this way -

  • glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,


11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Titus 2:11-14


Peter -


To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1


Since Jesus Christ is in fact the Lord God, He doesn’t consider it robbery to be equal with God.



JLB
 
JLB said:
Here is what Paul instructed Timothy.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


He said it to Titus this way -

  • glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,


11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Titus 2:11-14


Peter -


To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1


Since Jesus Christ is in fact the Lord God, He doesn’t consider it robbery to be equal with God.



JLB
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Yes, love all those scriptures that point to Jesus as God.

The scripture in Philippians 2 that we are examining has the context around it that Jesus considered himself "not" equal to the Father and therefore humbled himself in all ways. And the point being made is that we are to be like Christ's attitude.
 
StoveBolts said:
This is what I like about you. We both know what happened in 1054 because they started splitting hairs on something that was supposed to unite us.
As your aware, most dont know history, so they dont even know they were taught heresy. We do, so it's important we dont go for their throat, and you dont, which I also appreciate about you.
As a restorationist, I pull heavily from the first century and the direct diciples of the Apostles better known as the Early Church Fathers.
Click to expand...
:thumbsup
Thank you for encouraging my behavior.

iakov the fool :confused2
 
LovethroughDove said:
I guess the trinity is co-equal persons?
Click to expand...
The original Greek word was "hypostasis." (an underlying reality or substance, as opposed to attributes or that which lacks substance.) About as close as we can get in modern English is "person."

It's a really tough subject because, as mere humans, we really don't have the ability to understand exactly what "God" is.

This may be useful:
THE CREED BIBLE REFERENCES​

I believe in God,(1) the Father Almighty, Isaiah 44:6; 45:5
Maker of Heaven and Earth,(2) Genesis 1:1; John 1:1-3; Acts 14:15

And in Jesus Christ,(3) Luke 2:11; John 20:28
His only begotten Son,(4) John 3:16; Proverbs 30:4
our Lord, (5) John 20:28

begotten, not made John 1:14,18; 3:16,18; 1JN 4:9

of one substance with the Father Col 2:9
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,(6) Luke 1:35
born of the Virgin(7) Mary, Luke 1:27
suffered under Pontius Pilate,(8) Luke 23:23-25
was crucified,(9) John 19:20; Acts 4:10; all Gospels
dead(10) 1 Corinthians 15:3
and buried.(11) 1 Corinthians 15:4

He descended into Hell.(A) 1 Peter 3:18; Luke 23:43

The third day(12) 1 Corinthians 15:4
He arose from the dead,(13) 1 Corinthians 15:4
He ascended into Heaven(14) Mark 16:19; Luke 24:51, Acts 1:11
and is seated at the right hand
of God,(15) the Father Almighty. Mark 16:19; Hebrews 1:3

From thence He shall come
to judge the living and the dead.(16) 2 Timothy 4:1; John 5:22 ; Mat 25

I believe in the Holy Spirit,(17) John 15:26; 16:7-8, 13-14; Acts 13:2
the church universal,(18) Galatians 3:26-29

The apostolic* church Act 2:42; 2Th 2:15; 2Ti 2:2
the communion of saints,(19) Revelation 19:14; Hebrews 10:25
the forgiveness of sins,(20) Luke 7:48
the resurrection of the body,(21) 1 Thessalonians 4:16; John 6:39
and life everlasting.(22) John 10:28; 17:2-3

* "Apostolic" refers to the teaching of the apostles who were personally taught by God the Son.

No extra charge...:)

iakov the fool
 
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