Which could mean pretty much anything. "Erets" for example describes the area of Israel in Scripture.
[__ Science __ ] How Could the Ark Have Survived the Stresses of the Flood?
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Hey Barbarian
No, it describes the land, just as it does in the flood account. However, the boundaries of the land being discussed are established. That's how we know, when God speaks of the land of the earth, if He means to intend a part of, then He defines that part.
It could be like what Peter wrote about.
God bless,
Ted
Hi Barbarian
Maybe the land is one of those difficult things to understand. What about this passage?
So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive.
Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive. God destroyed all living things which were on the face of the land. He destroyed both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the land.
Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive.
God bless,
Ted
Maybe the land is one of those difficult things to understand. What about this passage?
So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive.
Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive. God destroyed all living things which were on the face of the land. He destroyed both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the land.
Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive.
God bless,
Ted
How big do you think Noah was?
Being bigger would just make it harder, you know.
But show us your numbers and your evidence for that.
The use of "eretz" (land, nation, "hereabouts", etc.) as opposed to "tebel" (whole world) indicates a regional flood, not a global one.
Yes. That reason is that we do not have a time machine. Another reason is because God will never send another GLOBAL Flood, just like He promised.
Every day that goes by, where the planet is NOT covered in water, is proof the Bible and YEC are right and you are wrong.
According to God, He never sent one global flood. He says that land (erets) was flooded, but He did not say the world (tebel) was flooded.
This is proof the Bible and most Christians are right and you are wrong.
Whether or not the Ark could have worked as YE revisions say, is easy to test. But for reasons we all know, YEers will never put it to a test.
According to God, He did. How do you know "land" isnt simply an allegory for the whole world?
That is the logical implication of Allegorism.
He didnt mention square inches SPECIFICALLY, since the measurment didnt exist at the time, but you probably know that.
Why believe Genesis is an allegory, but not the virgin birth? Do you not know that if the first parts of the Bible starts out being just a story, the rest of the Bible is called into question?
Now if you were calling a LATER Book an allegory, it may or may not be a problem. But this is the FIRST PARTS of the Bible were discussing. They are the FOUNDATIONS. The first books will leave an impression on humans. And if they are told the first Books of the Bible arent all true, that some are just nice stories, how do you think theyll view God?????
You would have us believe Christian beliefs exist on a bedrock of, uhhhh, fanciful wordplay and stories that mean something else. How absurd.
See fossil graveyards.
according to you, God wasted words when He promised to never flood every square inch of earth again.
That is the logical implication of Allegorism.
He didnt mention square inches SPECIFICALLY, since the measurment didnt exist at the time, but you probably know that.
Why believe Genesis is an allegory, but not the virgin birth? Do you not know that if the first parts of the Bible starts out being just a story, the rest of the Bible is called into question?
Now if you were calling a LATER Book an allegory, it may or may not be a problem. But this is the FIRST PARTS of the Bible were discussing. They are the FOUNDATIONS. The first books will leave an impression on humans. And if they are told the first Books of the Bible arent all true, that some are just nice stories, how do you think theyll view God?????
You would have us believe Christian beliefs exist on a bedrock of, uhhhh, fanciful wordplay and stories that mean something else. How absurd.
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How do you know "land" doesn't just mean "land?" Here, you've assumed what you proposed to prove.
Lots of those, some of which are forming right now. Did you not know this? There are a number of fossil graveyards in the walls of the Grand Canyon. Somehow, entire forest and desert ecosystems had time to form, and then be buried one after another. This completely rules out any possibility that it was formed in one flood.
Actually, He never said that. You added that to make scripture more acceptable to you.
Didn't say "every square cubit" either. For the obvious reason. He wasn't talking about the whole world.
So now it's "if anything in the Bible is allegory, then all of it has to be allegory." C'mon.
You think God's word is "just a story?" Assuming Jesus' parables to be "just a story" is missing the entire message. Even if there wasn't actuall a Good Samaritan, the point is what He is telling you.
If you fuss and obsess about God telling us that He used nature to produce life, you've missed the whole point of Genesis. He doesn't care what you think of the way He created things. As long as you don't make YE an idol and insist that others have to believe your interpretation, you are no less Christian than any other. But don't worship YE.
You think Jesus told stories that aren't true, because He used parables?
That's pretty much a description of YE creationism, isn't it?
Why not just let it be God's way?
Bottom line? YE creationists could easily demonstrate that a literal interpretation of the Flood story is possible, by building an Ark, loading it up and letting it float on the ocean for a year. But we all know why they won't do that.
Well, you set precedent for allergoizing things accepted as literal before 1750 AD.
Forming? Things need to be rapidly buried to be fossilized. So whats burying the animal bones?
Those are already formed from the Global Flood.
They form quickly. Trees take only 30-50 years average to fully grow. They have lots of seeds. Did you not know this?
Deserts are simply dry areas. Weather/climate is different based on location. Did you not know this?
The Grand canyon looked nothing like it looked before the flood. We dont know for sure whether or not there were deserts before the Flood.
No, you deny it to make naturalism more palpable.
- Genesis 9:11: "And I will establish my covenant with you: Neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth".
Tell me why local floods exist. Did God promise to never send a local flood?
Tell me what "all flesh" means. Oh, mabye it must mean something else. Eretz means land but "all flesh" is an allegory because.... because!!!
All flesh.
So now it's "If anything contradicts the Status Quo in the worLdly, secularistic, anti-Christian public schools, it's false"? Cmon.
No, but you imply that parts of Genesis are.
Genesis is important. Psalm 11:3 . John 3:12
Arent you techincally insisting that ppl believe the allegorical interprtation of Genesis?
nor Oe.
Yes but they were not presented or intended to be statments of facts. The Pilgrim's Progress isnt a lie, but many events in that books sure didnt happen IRL.
Or mabye they did happen just as told and are accounts, but He told the accounts to make a point.
YEC does not rely on metaphor-first literal-later.
If something begins as an allegory, then it cannot be real. Real things that are originally real things can be used as allegory or reference. But things that are originally allegories do not become real things. Can my allegory about boxes, for instance, put a box in front of me?
God's way wasnt the way of death and destruction and ultra-slowness to begin with.
There is no groundwater layer that the continents are floating on anymore. The globe is recovering from the one ice age caused by the Global Flood.
We all know why scientists can never practically replicate millions of years.
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Long before that, St. Augustine finally concluded that the days of Genesis could not be literal days. You've been misled about that.
Nope. Polystrate tree fossils, for example. There are some forming near where I live.
River sediment, desert sand, bogs, etc. Would you like some examples?
Lots of those, some of which are forming right now. Did you not know this? There are a number of fossil graveyards in the walls of the Grand Canyon. Somehow, entire forest and desert ecosystems had time to form, and then be buried one after another. This completely rules out any possibility that it was formed in one flood.
And yet you think all of these layers had time to form and be fossilized in one year, one after the other. The Grand Canyon shows that it could not possibly have been formed by any single flood.
So now it's "if anything in the Bible is allegory, then all of it has to be allegory." C'mon.
If you fuss and obsess about God telling us that He used nature to produce life, you've missed the whole point of Genesis.
But whether He poofed living things into existence, or they were brought forth by the earth, is not important. If you focus on that, you missed the entire message.
Stop telling God what to do.
Bottom line? YE creationists could easily demonstrate that a literal interpretation of the Flood story is possible, by building an Ark, loading it up and letting it float on the ocean for a year. But we all know why they won't do that.
Never was. Nor did God say there was.
We all know why YE creationists cannot replicate the Ark. It would be easy to do that, and put YE beliefs to a test. But it will never happen, for the reasons we've discussed.
Many of the young people I meet when out speaking seem to be dedicated Christians who love the Lord. At the same time, they often have a very shallow understanding of Christianity. Many have no idea how to answer the skeptical questions of this age—questions that are intended to create doubt in people’s minds about the Christian faith. For children and teens in our churches, lacking answers can put them on a slippery slide toward unbelief. These young people haven’t been taught Genesis 1–11 as literal history and really have no understanding that this history is foundational to all doctrine, to our worldview, to everything. Without it, they can’t deal properly with issues like gender, abortion, homosexuality, racism, and so on.That’s why after I speak I hear from so many young people who say they’ve never heard any of this before and that it’s radically changed how they think. We need more foundational and equipping with apologetics teaching in our churches!
x.com/aigkenham/status/1868615905359343851?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
We need to be reminded that “there is nothing new under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 1:9). The same old battle is raging today that’s been going on since God told Adam not to eat the fruit of one tree (Genesis 2:17), and Satan tempted Eve to question God’s Word (Genesis 3:1) and declared that Adam and Eve could be their own gods—to decide “truth” for themselves (Genesis 3:5).It’s the battle between two foundations: God’s Word and man’s word! We see this struggle all the way through the Bible described like:Good or evilLight or darknessGather or scatterBuild your house on the rock or sandFor Christ or againstTree of life or tree of knowledge of good and evilFountains of living water or broken cisternsIf only more people in the church (including pastors) truly understood the nature of this monumental battle.As you know, Answer in Genesis
@AiG
is a ministry the Lord has raised up to equip the church and families to defend the Christian faith, develop a strong biblical worldview, and share the life-changing gospel with confidence.We carry this out in many ways at AiG through our attractions (Ark Encounter and Creation Museum), award-winning websites/social media, VBS and Sunday school curriculum, apologetics resources (books, DVDs, and so on), outreach speaking events around the world, radio programs, cutting-edge research, Answers magazine, and more!We do all this to proclaim the truth of God’s Word and the saving gospel!“The unfolding of your words gives light; it imparts understanding to the simple” (Psalms 119:130).
x.com/aigkenham/status/1868265261624651926?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
The “fact” of deep time has been used as a cudgel against biblical authority for well over a century now, paving the way for what many consider to be a scientific argument for an atheistic worldview, the story of evolution. The tie-in to our story here is that many people believe that ice core dating methods are additional, definitive proof of long ages having occurred on earth, contradicting the biblical timeline.
These types of scientific dating methods have influenced many people’s lack of belief in God. In many people’s minds, they think if the Bible can’t be trusted in one area as plainly written, then why trust it anywhere else?
If there were a way to explain all the incredible design we see in our world by natural processes over millions of years, why should we believe in a Creator God? Atheist Ernst Mayr (one of the twentieth century’s leading evolutionary biologists who admitted to rejecting God because of his evolutionary beliefs) once said, “The revolution began when it became obvious that the earth was very ancient rather than having been created only 6000 years ago. This finding was the snowball that started the whole avalanche.”1
The “avalanche” he’s referring to, of course, is the Darwinian Revolution. The Darwinian Revolution is the full-scale rejection of the belief in the Genesis creation account by most in Western culture because of the promotion of the story of evolution in its place.
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Basically, no one dreamed the planes would be buried in over 80 meters of ice in only 40 years or so. Why? Up to this point, scientists had been making claims that ice core studies showed deposition rates far slower than this, with some deeper depths having occurred over hundreds of thousands of years.
Geologists would commonly cite fine layers in sedimentary rock deposits as evidence of annual layers having accrued slowly over thousands of years. Similarly, geoscientists assume that ice cores can be dated by counting what are assumed to be annual layers, particularly in their uppermost parts.
For example, as late as 1997 (five years after the retrieval of Glacier Girl), the Journal of Geophysical Research dated the ice on Greenland using ice core measurements this way.
With the planes being found at a depth of over 80 meters in just 40 years or so, that should have been at least an average of 2 meters per year instead of 1 meter about every 40 years, and even with their margin of error, that’s not even close.
The following quotation from The Lost Squadron book emphasizes how none of the expeditions expected anything close to the amount of accumulation that had occurred: “A B-17 tail-fin was twenty feet high, so there was every reason to believe the tip might be visible poking through a mound of snow.”5
Prior to the discovery of the Lost Squadron, apparently, no one had imagined ice accumulating at this rate.
answersingenesis.org/blogs/calvin-smith/2024/12/09/out-of-date-discovery/
x.com/aigkenham/status/1868615905359343851?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
We need to be reminded that “there is nothing new under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 1:9). The same old battle is raging today that’s been going on since God told Adam not to eat the fruit of one tree (Genesis 2:17), and Satan tempted Eve to question God’s Word (Genesis 3:1) and declared that Adam and Eve could be their own gods—to decide “truth” for themselves (Genesis 3:5).It’s the battle between two foundations: God’s Word and man’s word! We see this struggle all the way through the Bible described like:Good or evilLight or darknessGather or scatterBuild your house on the rock or sandFor Christ or againstTree of life or tree of knowledge of good and evilFountains of living water or broken cisternsIf only more people in the church (including pastors) truly understood the nature of this monumental battle.As you know, Answer in Genesis
@AiG
is a ministry the Lord has raised up to equip the church and families to defend the Christian faith, develop a strong biblical worldview, and share the life-changing gospel with confidence.We carry this out in many ways at AiG through our attractions (Ark Encounter and Creation Museum), award-winning websites/social media, VBS and Sunday school curriculum, apologetics resources (books, DVDs, and so on), outreach speaking events around the world, radio programs, cutting-edge research, Answers magazine, and more!We do all this to proclaim the truth of God’s Word and the saving gospel!“The unfolding of your words gives light; it imparts understanding to the simple” (Psalms 119:130).
x.com/aigkenham/status/1868265261624651926?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
The “fact” of deep time has been used as a cudgel against biblical authority for well over a century now, paving the way for what many consider to be a scientific argument for an atheistic worldview, the story of evolution. The tie-in to our story here is that many people believe that ice core dating methods are additional, definitive proof of long ages having occurred on earth, contradicting the biblical timeline.
These types of scientific dating methods have influenced many people’s lack of belief in God. In many people’s minds, they think if the Bible can’t be trusted in one area as plainly written, then why trust it anywhere else?
If there were a way to explain all the incredible design we see in our world by natural processes over millions of years, why should we believe in a Creator God? Atheist Ernst Mayr (one of the twentieth century’s leading evolutionary biologists who admitted to rejecting God because of his evolutionary beliefs) once said, “The revolution began when it became obvious that the earth was very ancient rather than having been created only 6000 years ago. This finding was the snowball that started the whole avalanche.”1
The “avalanche” he’s referring to, of course, is the Darwinian Revolution. The Darwinian Revolution is the full-scale rejection of the belief in the Genesis creation account by most in Western culture because of the promotion of the story of evolution in its place.
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What No One Ever Imagined
Throughout this time, several recorded comments, based on the assumptions of the rescuers of the Lost Squadron, began to unravel many of the scientific presuppositions that Bible skeptics have used to undermine biblical authority. This quotation from Richard Taylor demonstrates the assumptions I’m referring to very clearly: “We thought that all we’d have to do is shovel the snow off the wings, fill ’em with gas, crank ’em up and fly ’em off into the sunset. Guess we couldn’t have been much more wrong.”3Basically, no one dreamed the planes would be buried in over 80 meters of ice in only 40 years or so. Why? Up to this point, scientists had been making claims that ice core studies showed deposition rates far slower than this, with some deeper depths having occurred over hundreds of thousands of years.
Geologists would commonly cite fine layers in sedimentary rock deposits as evidence of annual layers having accrued slowly over thousands of years. Similarly, geoscientists assume that ice cores can be dated by counting what are assumed to be annual layers, particularly in their uppermost parts.
For example, as late as 1997 (five years after the retrieval of Glacier Girl), the Journal of Geophysical Research dated the ice on Greenland using ice core measurements this way.
Now, 110,000 theoretical years divided by 2,800 real meters would equal an average of 39.2 years per meter of accumulation. Assuming a similar rate of accumulation, when compared to the 80-plus meter depth the Lost Squadron was, the planes should have been there for over 3,000 years to be at the depth they were found (80 m x 39.2 years/m = 3,136 years), according to these published calculations.
With the planes being found at a depth of over 80 meters in just 40 years or so, that should have been at least an average of 2 meters per year instead of 1 meter about every 40 years, and even with their margin of error, that’s not even close.
The following quotation from The Lost Squadron book emphasizes how none of the expeditions expected anything close to the amount of accumulation that had occurred: “A B-17 tail-fin was twenty feet high, so there was every reason to believe the tip might be visible poking through a mound of snow.”5
Prior to the discovery of the Lost Squadron, apparently, no one had imagined ice accumulating at this rate.
answersingenesis.org/blogs/calvin-smith/2024/12/09/out-of-date-discovery/
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answersingenesis.org/noahs-ark/2024/12/07/exhibit-how-many-animals-went-ark/
answersingenesis.org
Praise God: Children Are Being Protected
In the UK and Alberta, Canada, rulings have been passed down to protect children who believe they are transgender from taking drugs and undergoing surgery to irrevocably change their bodies.
answersingenesis.org
Charles Darwin is the man credited with popularizing in our time the idea of evolution. His legacy lives on today as his naturalistic (atheistic) ideas have permeated not only Western culture, but much of the rest of the world and much of the church. But his legacy is not a good one. He popularized a philosophy that attacked (and was intended to destroy—but that can never happen, of course) the authority of the Word of God. Sadly, many churches adopted his ideas and reinterpreted the book of Genesis. This led to an undermining of the authority of God’s Word and generations doubting its truth and walking away from the Christian faith. Darwin’s legacy is a destructive, evil legacy, and it lives on not only in the secular culture and teaching but, sadly, also in many churches.Darwin’s legacy in the church can be seen in the fact that he was buried in the floor of a church (Westminster Abbey in London) and honored by the church. This to me is a reminder that a man who popularized a philosophy to undermine the foundation of the church is honored by the church and buried in the foundation of the church!So I challenge you: What legacy are you leaving behind? Are you leaving a legacy that will long outlive you and be felt in subsequent generations? Will your legacy impact your immediate family, local believers, unbelievers, or even the body of Christ around the world?
Barbarian
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Barbarian
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Impacting Lives—and How You Can Help!
Partner with us in our end-of-year campaign to continue to defend the truth of God’s Word and the gospel.
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Barbarian
the belief in millions of years of death and disease before man’s sin is an attack on the authority of Scripture and the character of God. And we believe it’s been a major factor in contributing to the catastrophic generational loss from the church and the lack of teaching in church to equip people to defend the Christian faith. Less than 9% of Gen Z attend church—something is wrong with much of the church!
Regardless of such attacks, I just want to remind all our friends and supporters that the solution to America’s problems (the rampant moral relativism, etc.) is not ultimately government or legislation. Don’t get me wrong; we need more Christians in government who have a true biblical worldview and who therefore can be salt in the way they vote and craft legislation. But the ultimate solution to the problems in our world has always been the truth of God’s Word and the saving gospel. This was the solution proclaimed by God in Genesis 3:15 after Adam rebelled and brought sin and death into the world.
And that’s why everything we do at AiG, the Creation Museum, and Ark Encounter is to impact people with God’s Word and the gospel. And that’s why we keep upgrading the attractions, adding new exhibits, using new technology for good, and producing new resources—all so we can equip Christians and see hearts and minds changed for eternity.
New Species of “Sparkly Blue” Bee Discovered in Texas
Scientists have just named a brand-new species of mining bee (small bees that are very important pollinators): Andrena androfovea.
answersingenesis.org
Now, in a biblical worldview we understand these mining bees all belong to the same kind (kinds usually fall at the family level, which is above genus and subgenus). There can be great variety within a kind, but mining bees remain, well, mining bees. And, of course, that’s what we observe.
....
How does mindless evolution “innovate”? It can’t! Rather, what we observe is a member of this bee genus that has some behaviors that are different from other members, yet [it is] still readily recognizable (and confirmed by DNA) to be in that genus.
What we observe is not evolution, but variation/speciation within this bee kind that God created with the other flying creatures on Day 5 of Creation Week just 6,000 years ago (not millions of years ago!)
...
Yes, this new species confirms what we know from God’s Word: Creatures reproduce according to their kind. Blue bees are just a reminder of the creativity and genetic diversity God put into each kind He made.
Oil and organic-based fuel resources were made in mass quantities by the Flood.
When something dies, it decays and or gets consumed by consumers and decomposers. It does not magically lie around for oodles of time to become fuel.
Bones lie on the ground, and need to be buried to fossilize. The bones would not lay around for oodles of time completely unntouched.
The naturalistic story is way too wishy washy and all chance thrown things together. The Genesis TRUTH (not allegory) is much more cohesive, coherent, explainable, and very cause-and-effect.
Yes, it definitely makes sense (not!) that God wishes to woo us with a story instead of establishing Himself to be taken seriously.
If you want a whole race of sentient beings (who you know will one day ask questions about you) to take you very seriously, instead of saying something that means something else, you establish yourself as being very RELIABLE. Right?
Imagine being a witness to a crime, then talking about a criminal. The judge makes a decision, but right before he does you tell him its an allegory. Really? The judge could get pretty upset about your allegory that was not made clear to be an allegory til later.
The allegory view of Genesis was not adopted til later, plus it comes not from the text but , largely, people's desire to please the new Status Quo of the naturalistic, anti-God regime that has infected science-related things/people/places/organizations with scientISM.
See how flimsy, floppy, the allegory view is? It holds like a mesh submarine in water.
The virgin birth also makes "no sense" to those who are asleep. I don't see Genesis Allegorizers trying to morph THAT into an allegory. Why all the inconsistency? If we accept Jesus' Miracles as literal in the NT, why aren't we accepting His Miracles in Genesis?? (Jesus is God)
If you dont believe God about the history in Genesis, why do we take any of the rest to be true, and not simply more and more stories?
When something dies, it decays and or gets consumed by consumers and decomposers. It does not magically lie around for oodles of time to become fuel.
Bones lie on the ground, and need to be buried to fossilize. The bones would not lay around for oodles of time completely unntouched.
The naturalistic story is way too wishy washy and all chance thrown things together. The Genesis TRUTH (not allegory) is much more cohesive, coherent, explainable, and very cause-and-effect.
It makes sense that God wastes words? That He establishes His reputation as a simply fanciful storyteller, instead of establishing Himself as an All-Wise, Omniscient, Trustworthy source of all information, be it about the past, present, or future??? History can be used as allegory like a hammer used as a tool or as a decoration, but allegory cannot be history.
Yes, it definitely makes sense (not!) that God wishes to woo us with a story instead of establishing Himself to be taken seriously.
If you want a whole race of sentient beings (who you know will one day ask questions about you) to take you very seriously, instead of saying something that means something else, you establish yourself as being very RELIABLE. Right?
Imagine being a witness to a crime, then talking about a criminal. The judge makes a decision, but right before he does you tell him its an allegory. Really? The judge could get pretty upset about your allegory that was not made clear to be an allegory til later.
The allegory view of Genesis was not adopted til later, plus it comes not from the text but , largely, people's desire to please the new Status Quo of the naturalistic, anti-God regime that has infected science-related things/people/places/organizations with scientISM.
"There's many deep metaphors in your reply. You mean none of what you say, you are talking about a whale and its journey in the ocean. Your posting about "the earth not the center of solar system" is actually just referring to how a naracisstic whale should discover he isnt the center, he needs to help other whales too." - using your view on your reply!
See how flimsy, floppy, the allegory view is? It holds like a mesh submarine in water.
The virgin birth also makes "no sense" to those who are asleep. I don't see Genesis Allegorizers trying to morph THAT into an allegory. Why all the inconsistency? If we accept Jesus' Miracles as literal in the NT, why aren't we accepting His Miracles in Genesis?? (Jesus is God)
If you dont believe God about the history in Genesis, why do we take any of the rest to be true, and not simply more and more stories?