How does C.I and E.C.T affect the Gospel?

[DRS81]

Do you understand Hebrew and Greek?

Or do you understand Hebrew and Greek when it's translated?

JLB

Translated!

Right now I'm getting to know the Septuagint Hebrew Bible and Greek dictionaries. It can be rewarding in the end.

 

[MarkT]

Are they not resurrected first and then cast into hell?

How does the breath of life return to God if it is trapped in the lake of fire?

The Bible says, 'for their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched.' Isa. 66:24 Jesus said the same thing. Mrk. 9:47,48

 

[MarkT]

How about the person, the soul, the inner most parts of a man, the heart and mind? How do they weep and gnash their teeth if they are not living?

 

[MarkT]

What spirit? Scripture says when man dies the spirit returns to God

If the spirit is evil what does God do to the evil spirit? He casts it into hell.

 

[MarkT]

You deny man has a soul? Does God punish dust?

 

[DRS81]

Are they not resurrected first and then cast into hell?

How does the breath of life return to God if it is trapped in the lake of fire?

The Bible says, 'for their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched.' Isa. 66:24 Jesus said the same thing. Mrk. 9:47,48

Jesus is alluding to how severe punishment is by using eternity as a metaphor.
The fire is not still burning in Jerusalem, so it's not meaning for ever and ever.
Death is what lasts forever, not the burning. The opposite of life is death.

Isa 66:24 This verse describes a terrible scene. It refers to the deep narrow valley called Hinnom. This valley is near to *Jerusalem, on the south side. (The *New Testament uses the *Greek word Gehenna for the *Hebrew word Hinnom – see Matthew 10:28). In the Hinnom Valley, two wicked kings of Israel burned their sons as a *sacrifice to false gods (Ahaz, see 2 Chronicles 28:3; Manasseh, see 2 Chronicles 33:6). And other people copied this wicked behaviour (see Jeremiah 7:32; 19:5-6; 32:35).

Later, the inhabitants of *Jerusalem threw their rubbish into the Hinnom Valley. What worms did not eat, fire destroyed. The fire never went out. Soon, what happened became powerful picture language to describe Hell. Jesus uses this verse, to mean ‘to *destroy totally’ (see Mark 9:48). Isaiah 66:24 is describing those people who refuse to serve God. They refuse to obey God’s instructions. But God is the origin of life. So these people have removed themselves from the God who gave them life. The verse describes their punishment as the extreme opposite of life. They have brought about their own terrible punishment. And that punishment is death that lasts for all time. (See Luke 16:19-31; 2 Thessalonians 1:9-10.)

 

[JLB]

Jesus is alluding to how severe punishment is by using eternity as a metaphor.
The fire is not still burning in Jerusalem, so it's not meaning for ever and ever.
Death is what lasts forever, not the burning. The opposite of life is death.

Isa 66:24 This verse describes a terrible scene. It refers to the deep narrow valley called Hinnom. This valley is near to *Jerusalem, on the south side. (The *New Testament uses the *Greek word Gehenna for the *Hebrew word Hinnom – see Matthew 10:28). In the Hinnom Valley, two wicked kings of Israel burned their sons as a *sacrifice to false gods (Ahaz, see 2 Chronicles 28:3; Manasseh, see 2 Chronicles 33:6). And other people copied this wicked behaviour (see Jeremiah 7:32; 19:5-6; 32:35).

Later, the inhabitants of *Jerusalem threw their rubbish into the Hinnom Valley. What worms did not eat, fire destroyed. The fire never went out. Soon, what happened became powerful picture language to describe Hell. Jesus uses this verse, to mean ‘to *destroy totally’ (see Mark 9:48). Isaiah 66:24 is describing those people who refuse to serve God. They refuse to obey God’s instructions. But God is the origin of life. So these people have removed themselves from the God who gave them life. The verse describes their punishment as the extreme opposite of life. They have brought about their own terrible punishment. And that punishment is death that lasts for all time. (See Luke 16:19-31; 2 Thessalonians 1:9-10.)

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed , into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41

Jesus died to saves us, that we would be with Him forever. Thank you Lord!


He taught these words to His disciples as they came to Him privately on the mount of Olives.

Here are the words that Jesus Christ said He would say to those on His left on the Day of Judgement as He is seated upon His Throne, when He has come in His Glory with His holy angels.

He is quoting the words He will say, on that Day -

'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:...

• Do you know what will happen to the devil when he is cast into this everlasting fire?

• Do you believe Jesus will say these words to those who are standing on His left, on that Day?

I get the impression that you are somehow claiming that these words from Jesus are symbolic, and don't really mean exactly what He said they mean.


JLB

 

[DRS81]

'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:..

Hey JLB, blessings. Matt 25:41-46 Those people by his left side were astonished when the king blamed them. They had not noticed the people who needed help. So they had failed to help the king himself. Verse 46 ‘live with God for ever’ refers to the future age. So ‘punishment that will never end’ means that people cannot share that life with God. The ‘fire that burns for ever’ (verse 41) refers to Gehenna. That was a valley outside Jerusalem where people threw all their rubbish. Fires were burning there all the time. Jesus used this picture to compare life with God and life without God in hell.

• Do you know what will happen to the devil when he is cast into this everlasting fire?

• Do you believe Jesus will say these words to those who are standing on His left, on that Day?

1. The devil will eventually be destroyed after a period of time
2. I don't know if Jesus will say the words depart from Me at the great white throne, but he certainly will thrown them into the lake of fire

I get the impression that you are somehow claiming that these words from Jesus are symbolic, and don't really mean exactly what He said they mean.

They are symbolic. They are comparing life with God and life without God in hell by using the scene from Jerusalem and the trash heap.

 

[jeff77]

No, the purpose is to understand Hebrew and Greek. We can better interpret scripture this way.

I think the English versions carry the same interpretation. We as Christians may have some different views on a few things, but you seem to be saying that there are inaccuracies in the English version and you have the correct understanding of the Greek and Hebrew. Am I wrong? This makes the Bible (English versions) sound untrustworthy.

 

[DRS81]

I think the English versions carry the same interpretation. We as Christians may have some different views on a few things, but you seem to be saying that there are inaccuracies in the English version and you have the correct understanding of the Greek and Hebrew. Am I wrong? This makes the Bible (English versions) sound untrustworthy.

Hi Jeff. Actually, I need to correct myself.
I do believe Paradise is speaking of a future garden in 2 Cor 12:1-4.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib//poly/g3857.htm / http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib//poly/co2012.htm

However, I believe this is a vision that Paul received.
And with this being a vision, it changes the whole format of what it's saying.
The New American Standard version actually has it translated as 'third heaven' and not Paradise.
This is what I'm referring too in regards to English translations, not all are bad or wrong.
But we have be extra careful as to what the scripture is teaching and what the words are saying..

Paul's Vision - 1 Boasting is necessary, though it is not profitable; but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago -whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows -such a man was caught up to Paradise. 3 And I know how such a man -whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows - 4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak

 

[jeff77]

Hi Jeff. Actually, I need to correct myself.
I do believe Paradise is speaking of a future garden in 2 Cor 12:1-4.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib//poly/g3857.htm / http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib//poly/co2012.htm

However, I believe this is a vision that Paul received.
And with this being a vision, it changes the whole format of what it's saying.
The New American Standard version actually has it translated as 'third heaven' and not Paradise.
This is what I'm referring too in regards to English translations, not all are bad or wrong.
But we have be extra careful as to what the scripture is teaching and what the words are saying..

Paul's Vision - 1 Boasting is necessary, though it is not profitable; but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago -whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows -such a man was caught up to Paradise. 3 And I know how such a man -whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows - 4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak

I apologize, I think I am reading to many threads and getting mixed up.

 

[Butch5]

Are they not resurrected first and then cast into hell?

How does the breath of life return to God if it is trapped in the lake of fire?

The Bible says, 'for their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched.' Isa. 66:24 Jesus said the same thing. Mrk. 9:47,48

Because it's not trapped in the fire.

What are the two passages that you posted talking about

 

[Butch5]

I apologize, I think I am reading to many threads and getting mixed up.

I can relate to that.

 

[JLB]

Hey JLB, blessings. Matt 25:41-46 Those people by his left side were astonished when the king blamed them. They had not noticed the people who needed help. So they had failed to help the king himself. Verse 46 ‘live with God for ever’ refers to the future age. So ‘punishment that will never end’ means that people cannot share that life with God. The ‘fire that burns for ever’ (verse 41) refers to Gehenna. That was a valley outside Jerusalem where people threw all their rubbish. Fires were burning there all the time. Jesus used this picture to compare life with God and life without God in hell.


1. The devil will eventually be destroyed after a period of time
2. I don't know if Jesus will say the words depart from Me at the great white throne, but he certainly will thrown them into the lake of fire



They are symbolic. They are comparing life with God and life without God in hell by using the scene from Jerusalem and the trash heap.

Then you just claimed that salvation and eternal life are also symbolic.

Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:45-46

Do you honestly think eternal life is symbolic?


JLB

 

[MarkT]

What are the two passages that you posted talking about

Mrk. 9:47,48 sheds light on Isa. 66:24

When Jesus returns he will slay the rebels, and we will look on the dead bodies of the men who rebelled against him. So we will see the dead bodies being in the fire being eaten by worms. What cannot be seen is what takes place in heaven. In heaven they will be cast into the lake of fire where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.

 

[DRS81]

Then you just claimed that salvation and eternal life are also symbolic.

Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:45-46

Do you honestly think eternal life is symbolic?

JLB

I'm saying that the 'everlasting' is symbolic. Of course salvation and eternal life is real.

In heaven they will be cast into the lake of fire where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.

Please re-read post 366.

 

[JLB]

I'm saying that the 'everlasting' is symbolic. Of course salvation and eternal life is real.



Please re-read post 366.

Brother,

You don't just get to make up things as you go along.

And these will go away into everlasting punishment,but the righteous into eternal life."
Matthew 25:46

If you believe that the everlasting punishment is symbolic, then you are also teaching that eternal life is symbolic.

These phrases are both in the same verse. Everlasting and eternal are the same word.

The truth is that everlasting punishment and eternal life are literal statements of truth spoken by Jesus who was teaching His disciples and they in turn would pass this very doctrine on to the next generation of disciples.

Everlasting punishment and eternal life are literal statements.


JLB

 

[DRS81]

Brother,

You don't just get to make up things as you go along.

I'm not making it up, this is what scripture teaches.
I'm referring to 'everlasting fire', everlasting is not forever.
The fire in Jerusalem burned out a long time ago.
Read post 366. I explained it there.

 

[JLB]

I'm not making it up, this is what scripture teaches.
I'm referring to 'everlasting fire', everlasting is not forever.
The fire in Jerusalem burned out a long time ago.
Read post 366. I explained it there.

Jesus didn't teach us that these whom He cursed would go to Jerusalem.

The fire prepared for the devil.

Jesus didn't sentence anyone to Jerusalem.

'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41

Do you see where Jerusalem is mentioned here?

The everlasting fire prepared for the devil is the lake of fire! Not Jerusalem!

Jesus clarifies exactly the fire He is referring to - PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL!

Here is the word for word fate of the fire that the devil will be sentenced to:

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Revelation 20:10


Not Jerusalem! The lake of fire!


JLB

 

[MarkT]

To get around the problem of the English Bibles translating Greek words into "eternal," "forever," and forevermore" when describing fire (Matt. 18:8) or torment (Rev. 20:10), we should always go to the Greek. The Greek word that is translated into eternal is greek aionion". It comes from the Greek root "aion" meaning "age." This fact combined with the various uses of Greek words derived from the root "aion" is to show that "aionion" does not always mean "eternal" but can refer to a finite period of time.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

If the destruction is not forever then neither is the exclusion from the presence of the Lord forever. If you lose the meaning of forever, then how can you say death lasts forever? Eternal life? Is that forever?

Jesus is alluding to how severe punishment is by using eternity as a metaphor.
The fire is not still burning in Jerusalem, so it's not meaning for ever and ever.
Death is what lasts forever, not the burning. The opposite of life is death.

Eternity is not a metaphor for anything. The fire that is coming is the fire that comes from the mouth of the Lord. It's an unquenchable fire.

A burning place has long been prepared; yea for the king it is made ready Isa. 30:33 The breath of the LORD kindles this fire and those that are cast into it shall be wood for the fire. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Mt. 7:19