How does C.I and E.C.T affect the Gospel?

[DRS81]

Again, where does the Hebrew word olam, occur in this verse?

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:46


JLB

Again, these are English translations. The Bible wasn't written in English first.

 

[JLB]

Again, these are English translations. The Bible wasn't written in English first.

Where is the Hebrew word olam in this verse/

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:46

The text is written in Greek.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Again, these are English translations. The Bible wasn't written in English first.

Which version is your preferred version that you would like to use.

KJV?
NKJV?
Holman?
NIV?

Please use the version that you prefer.


JLB

 

[DRS81]

Where is the Hebrew word olam in this verse/

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:46

The text is written in Greek.


JLB

Everlasting and eternal are not Greek terms, they're English.

Which version is your preferred version that you would like to use.

KJV?
NKJV?
Holman?
NIV?

Please use the version that you prefer.


JLB

None of them. I prefer Hebrew. The first word in Hebrew to describe time was olam. In the Old Testament the word olam is used 413 times.

 

[JLB]

Everlasting and eternal are not Greek terms, they're English.



None of them. I prefer Hebrew. The first word in Hebrew to describe time was olam. In the Old Testament the word olam is used 413 times.

What does the New Testament teach?

Specifically in this verse?

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:46


JLB

 

[DRS81]

What does the New Testament teach?

Specifically in this verse?

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:46


JLB

Why are you refusing to acknowledge that these are English words.

 

[JLB]

Why are you refusing to acknowledge that these are English words.

I read English.

These are English words that are written in the Bible.

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:46

Eternal and everlasting mean the same thing and are the same word.

I believe what is stated here.

Do you?

Do you read and understand Greek or Hebrew as another language?

Please use the version of the Bible that best conveys here what you are wanting us to understand.


JLB

 

[DRS81]

These are English words that are written in the Bible.

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:46

But when the Bible was first written, it wasn't written in English.

Please use the version of the Bible that best conveys here what you are wanting us to understand.

The word olam is a period of time. For example, 1 hour, 2 weeks, 3 years, 4 decades or 5 centuries can all mean olam. But here is where the Bible becomes confusing. Olam can also mean forever, and it could also mean a period of time. A period of time could mean 2 weeks or forever depending on what God's plans are for the New Earth and the wicked. But here's the thing, God never tells us how long this period of time is. For example, whenever the word olam was mentioned in the OT people had to wait until prophecy was fulfilled to understand how long it took to be fulfilled. We know that king or so and so lasted for 40 years because he reigned from AD 30 to AD whatever. But when they wrote scripture about certain prophecies they used the word olam to give it a specific time.

But when you specifically are referring to the afterlife, it's a whole new ball game. We will only know when we finally meet Jesus after we die and ask him personally. I personally believe that olam life is forever and olam punishment is a period of time. God didn't add that into the Bible just like he didn't add what occurs beyond the finite. That's why topics like this have been disputed since the beginning of time. - DRS81

 

[JLB]

But when the Bible was first written, it wasn't written in English.



The word olam is a period of time. For example, 1 hour, 2 weeks, 3 years, 4 decades or 5 centuries can all mean olam. But here is where the Bible becomes confusing. Olam can also mean forever, and it could also mean a period of time. A period of time could mean 2 weeks or forever depending on what God's plans are for the New Earth and the wicked. But here's the thing, God never tells us how long this period of time is. For example, whenever the word olam was mentioned in the OT people had to wait until prophecy was fulfilled to understand how long it took to be fulfilled. We know that king or so and so lasted for 40 years because he reigned from AD 30 to AD whatever. But when they wrote scripture about certain prophecies they used the word olam to give it a specific time.

But when you specifically are referring to the afterlife, it's a whole new ball game. We will only know when we finally meet Jesus after we die and ask him personally. I personally believe that olam life is forever and olam punishment is a period of time. God didn't add that into the Bible just like he didn't add what occurs beyond the finite. That's why topics like this have been disputed since the beginning of time. - DRS81

Is olam found in this verse?

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:46


JLB

 

[DRS81]

Is olam found in this verse?

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:46


JLB

No it's not, because these are English translations as I've told you numerous times.

 

[MarkT]

Hi JLB. Gehenna (Greek, but from a Hebrew name) is the Lake of Fire. The future destruction of the wicked is symbolized by the Valley of Hinnom to which Gehenna refers. It is a place south of Jerusalem where the bodies of dead animals and rubbish were taken to be burned. The Valley of Hinnom was also the site of much human sacrifice to the pagan god Molech (2 Kings 23:10, 2 Chronicles 28:3, 33:6, Jeremiah 32:35). The fire burned constantly in the valley since additional fuel was frequently being cast into it. Jesus was using this description in Isa 66:24 to give us an idea of what the future destruction will look like. But is the fire still burning in the valley JLB?

If you can prove to me that the OT Gehenna and NT Gehenna are not speaking of this same place in the valley,
and prove to me that for ever and ever comes from Greek and not English translation, then you will convince me. - DRS81

Gehenna is a name. Hell, Gehenna, the lake of fire, it doesn't matter what you call it, they refer to the place of burning. Get yourself the RSV. You get the Greek and the Hebrew and Aramaic meanings in the footnotes. Is there a place of burning where bodies are burned today? No. We don't burn bodies out in the open today. So what? You don't believe God has prepared a place of burning? You don't believe in hell? I guess that's your business.

 

[JLB]

No it's not, because these are English translations as I've told you numerous times.

Do you read and understand Hebrew?


JLB

 

[MarkT]

No it's not, because these are English translations as I've told you numerous times.

Having trouble with English? How are you going to understand Greek and Hebrew then? The Bible has been translated for us. No where does it say the punishment is until the person is burned up. That's not an age. How long does it take for a person to burn up? Not an age. If you don't like eternal, if you want age-long, then ok. The punishment will last for as long as God is God and his Word is his word and for as long as His kingdom is His kingdom (and of his kingdom there will be no end). ie. forever. That's age-long.

 

[DRS81]

Do you read and understand Hebrew?

No I do not. Why do you ask. Also keep in mind that the real confusion starts setting in when translators translate the Greek word 'aion' to eternal, and that's not good. The greatest harm of all that the KJV and other translators have committed is in their translation of the Greek word "aion" to "eternal" or "everlasting," in the sense that we use those words, that is, "time without end, ever." In other words, ten trillion years from now, if there is an "everlasting hell," and I go there, I am only beginning my stint; I will never escape; I will never be with God, ever. The plain truth is that the word "aion" does not mean an indefinite span of time. It is an age, and "aionian" is "age-lasting," or "to an age." The Hebrew word "olam," translated "everlasting" is also obscured in its true meaning. Many are the examples where "everlasting" does not mean what we think, or how we use the word today.

Having trouble with English? How are you going to understand Greek and Hebrew then? The Bible has been translated for us. No where does it say the punishment is until the person is burned up. That's not an age. How long does it take for a person to burn up? Not an age. If you don't like eternal, if you want age-long, then ok. The punishment will last for as long as God is God and his Word is his word and for as long as His kingdom is His kingdom (and of his kingdom there will be no end). ie. forever. That's age-long.

Keep in mind that the real confusion starts setting in when translators translate the Greek word 'aion' to eternal, and that's not good. The greatest harm of all that the KJV and other translators have committed is in their translation of the Greek word "aion" to "eternal" or "everlasting," in the sense that we use those words, that is, "time without end, ever." In other words, ten trillion years from now, if there is an "everlasting hell," and I go there, I am only beginning my stint; I will never escape; I will never be with God, ever. The plain truth is that the word "aion" does not mean an indefinite span of time. It is an age, and "aionian" is "age-lasting," or "to an age." The Hebrew word "olam," translated "everlasting" is also obscured in its true meaning. Many are the examples where "everlasting" does not mean what we think, or how we use the word today.

 

[DRS81]

That is literally toss non believer's into physical type of fire.

Actually, the type of fire we see and feel on this earth is different than the fire nonbelievers will feel in the afterlife. Two different kinds of fires.

 

[jeff77]

Actually, the type of fire we see and feel on this earth is different than the fire nonbelievers will feel in the afterlife. Two different kinds of fires.

I believe that's possible. Especially since it's an everlasting fire.

 

[JLB]

No I do not. .

If you don't read Hebrew then how can you claim all the versions of the Bible are translated incorrectly?

You are just relying on another person's opinion as to the correct translation.

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:46

Olam does not appear in the original Greek manuscripts.

Everlasting and eternal are the same Greek word.

We either have eternal life with Jesus Christ or we have everlasting punishment with the devil.

That is the basic message of the gospel.

Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.

Turn away from the devil as being your lord or you will perish with him.


JLB

 

[DRS81]

If you don't read Hebrew then how can you claim all the versions of the Bible are translated incorrectly?

I'm not claiming all the versions are translated incorrectly. I'm claiming all the versions are translated incorrectly specifically in regards to Luke 23:43.

Olam does not appear in the original Greek manuscripts.

That's because it's a Hebrew word.

Everlasting and eternal are the same Greek word.

No, these words are not Greek. They're English.

 

[gr8grace3]

No I do not. Why do you ask. Also keep in mind that the real confusion starts setting in when translators translate the Greek word 'aion' to eternal, and that's not good. The greatest harm of all that the KJV and other translators have committed is in their translation of the Greek word "aion" to "eternal" or "everlasting," in the sense that we use those words, that is, "time without end, ever." In other words, ten trillion years from now, if there is an "everlasting hell," and I go there, I am only beginning my stint; I will never escape; I will never be with God, ever. The plain truth is that the word "aion" does not mean an indefinite span of time. It is an age, and "aionian" is "age-lasting," or "to an age." The Hebrew word "olam," translated "everlasting" is also obscured in its true meaning. Many are the examples where "everlasting" does not mean what we think, or how we use the word today.



Keep in mind that the real confusion starts setting in when translators translate the Greek word 'aion' to eternal, and that's not good. The greatest harm of all that the KJV and other translators have committed is in their translation of the Greek word "aion" to "eternal" or "everlasting," in the sense that we use those words, that is, "time without end, ever." In other words, ten trillion years from now, if there is an "everlasting hell," and I go there, I am only beginning my stint; I will never escape; I will never be with God, ever. The plain truth is that the word "aion" does not mean an indefinite span of time. It is an age, and "aionian" is "age-lasting," or "to an age." The Hebrew word "olam," translated "everlasting" is also obscured in its true meaning. Many are the examples where "everlasting" does not mean what we think, or how we use the word today.

1 Timothy 6:16 (NASB95)
16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
God just has dominion for an age or so?

 

[DRS81]

1 Timothy 6:16 (NASB95)
16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and aiōnios dominion! Amen.
God just has dominion for an age or so?

That's the point I'm hoping to make. Does God let us know beyond the finite mind? No he doesn't.